KarlB737 From United States, joined Mar 2004, 2185 posts, RR: 7 Posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1267 times:
10 Pitches Of Support For YNG SCASD
Well this caught me out of the blue today. I didn't realize there was this much penmanship at work for YNG. I knew they were seeking something more. I know they want more from Allegiant. The confidence factor that needs to come from Allegiant appears to be absent at the present time. I hope however that either through SCASD or heavy negotiations with Allegiant or Spirit that something develops after these writings:
Tornado82 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1244 times:
SCASD is to develop the business economy of a city. Enabling people to fly to see Mickey or the beach isn't in the business/economic interest. If all they're doing is pitching a SCASD for more flights to see Mickey Mouse, the beaches, etc. it is an abuse of the system. If they were asking for flights to DC, Chicago, NYC, or some other business center I'd be all fine with it. These outlying community leaders are asking for SCASD in the business interest of the area, mentioning unemployment and the such in their letters. More links to the beaches of Florida, Vegas, etc. are NOT going to help the local economy/unemployment... and if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.
FATFlyer From United States, joined May 2001, 4366 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1241 times:
Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter): I knew they were seeking something more. I know they want more from Allegiant. The confidence factor that needs to come from Allegiant appears to be absent at the present time. I hope however that either through SCASD or heavy negotiations with Allegiant or Spirit that something develops after these writings:
Isn't the YNG application for a revenue guarantee for regional jet service? I thought they wanted to get connecting service through a hub.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
FATFlyer From United States, joined May 2001, 4366 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1224 times:
Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1): More links to the beaches of Florida, Vegas, etc. are NOT going to help the local economy/unemployment... and if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.
I decided to pull up their SCASD application again.
Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.
Quote: The Youngstown-Warren
Regional Airport is requesting a $800,000 SCASDP grant to initiate a 50-90 seat regional jet
service at YNG, by developing a revenue guarantee program to support the initial phase (first 12
months) of air service. This revenue guarantee program will be designed to attract non-stop air
service to the hub of a major U.S. airline in the Midwest or Southern US., by minimizing the
initial business risk that a carrier will face in entering a new market, rather than simply
subsidizing air service that is unlikely to be self-sufficient. Thus, the revenue guarantee will be a
short-term program tailored to launch the new regional jet service by mitigating the airline’s
initial risk.
This is great news for YNG - Youngstown-Warren Regional as they look to get back into the the business of providing business flights in the region! This grant calls for $800,000 from the DOT, as well as about $1 million in local funds to provide a $1.8 million dollar grant to help assist the first 3 years of service for a business carrier to fly 3-5 daily flights on a regional jet to Chicago, Cincinnati, or Charlotte. In the first 2 years, the airline would lose about $800,000, which YNG would pickup; but then make a $500,000 for the profit come year 3 w/o the assistance of YNG.
YNG did a survey to local business and they said 34% wanted flights to ORD, 21% to CLT, 13% to CVG, and 13% to CMH. The survey had a small % response to the actual local employer base and it came out to about 98,000 passengers a year to fly a business route, after they did all the math.
With a 93% passenger load for the first half of 2007 for Allegiant Air; things look promising!
Tornado82 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1223 times:
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.
In that case... more power to them. Although with as close as they are to CAK, CLE, and PIT I don't really think the gov't will go along with this one.
Tornado82 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1220 times:
Quoting YNGguins (Reply 4): YNG did a survey to local business and they said 34% wanted flights to ORD, 21% to CLT, 13% to CVG, and 13% to CMH.
Who in their right mind would fly YNG-CMH. With the check in times and whatnot you can drive it quicker. I can see ORD, CLT, and even CVG... but CMH is sooooo close!
YNGguins From United States, joined Jun 2007, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1201 times:
I think the best thing going for YNG is that they have been awarded grants in the past; (03 and 05) and those grants were successful in bringing in carriers. The other thing that they have going for them that other airports do not is that they actually took the time to send out a survey to thousands of local businesses to get their imput on whether or not they'd fly YNG and where they'd like to fly to if they were interested.
The survey came up with this stat: Therefore, area businesses responding estimate that approximately 63% of their company’s airline tickets would be purchased to fly from YNG. For an area with a 600,000 MSA Population; that is pretty darn good and esp. something a legacy carrier will be looking for! Fingers crossed YNG gets this award, because it has proven that people in the Valley will fly if their are flights.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4311 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1176 times:
No chance of UA service to ORD, or AA for that matter. Due to the scarcity of slots at ORD, they are not going to "waste" them on service to YNG.
It would be interesting to see how that "survey" was worded, it should come as no surprise that ORD came out first. If they listed NYC as a choice, it would probably come out on top. There is always a difference between what people want and what people actually end up using.
A 50 seat RJ is a tough sell without revenue guarentees. Sure if they want to throw enough cash at it for a year then fine. Too bad they couldn't get XJ to restart Saab service to DTW which could potentially be the best bet for service. The proximity of CAK, CLE, & PIT doesn't help at all.
YNGguins From United States, joined Jun 2007, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1161 times:
ATLAaron, that UA Rumor can be blamed on myself. I had heard from various people about Colgan's interest in YNG, but that was just in the preliminary talks. Those talks died off without any money guarentee's. I still think UA and YNG can get something if YNG gets the money here.
And PSU.DTW.SCE: That NWA Route got so bad that on some flights there would be 2-5 people on board right before the service ended. DTW was not a popular route for us in YNG.
ORD always did pretty darn well, but I think if included, DC would be the top on everyone's business list! I, of course, want this grant badly to get this airport back on the map. Allegiant is doing well, and I'm sure business flights at a decent fare will do well too!
KarlB737 From United States, joined Mar 2004, 2185 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1127 times:
Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1): if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2): Isn't the YNG application for a revenue guarantee for regional jet service?
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3): they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.
I should have seperated the fact that on the one hand the airport has applied for the SCASD grant for the regional jet service and in a separate effort have hopes for more Allegiant service that has nothing to do with the SCASD application. Thoughts for something from Spirit Airlines as well is a seperate interest coming from not the airport but many interested individuals in favor of increased YNG air service. Again these thoughts have nothing to do with the SCASD application. I did not in my original post make these specifics clear. My error.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4311 posts, RR: 18 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1117 times:
I used to be on those Mesaba flights at times into YNG, when they continued on to SCE.
Part of the problem was that the service was poorly timed. YNG was always thrown in as a tag-on, or a stop-over.
One of the flights went DTW-YNG-SCE-DTW, with another going DTW-SCE-YNG-DTW. After they made all SCE flights nonstop to DTW, then I believe CAK was added in as a stop for a while before they terminated the service, just prior to 9/11. I believe NW/XJ pulled out on 9/8/01. They never picked up more than a few passengers on the stopover flights whenever I came in via SCE.
I would imagine that UA/Colgan IAD Saab service has a better chance than UA ORD RJ service. Lower operating costs, lower breakeven load factor, and not worrying about the reluctance to pull slots from other ORD flights.Restarting with turboprop service is a lot less risky than an RJ, and likely wouldn't eat through the revenue guarentee as quickly.
I don't think Spirit is interested in YNG either, its just not their niche. They generally don't fly routes less than daily, and they are in full growth mode out of FLL to the Carribean & Central America. Again, its the allocation of resources, and NK hasn't really gone into to small markets to capture leisure passengers. They focus on the larger destinations to capture leisure passengers.
YNGguins From United States, joined Jun 2007, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1109 times:
FATFlyer: I know your the insider here on Airliners.net re: Allegiant Air news. Have you heard anything at all regarding YNG? I mean we do have 93% loads for the first half of 2007, and we still have never been considered for additional SFB Flights, or even flights to our most popular destination: LAS.
Spirit Air has talked with YNG in the past, and I even went out to do a survey on my blog for one of the supposed aviation experts at YNG; he was supposed to deliver the results to Spirit, but the guy backed out. My numbers came up with LAS and FLL and RSW as the top 3 destinations if Spirit were to come to town.
Tornado82 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1095 times:
Quoting YNGguins (Reply 14): I mean we do have 93% loads for the first half of 2007, and we still have never been considered for additional SFB Flights, or even flights to our most popular destination: LAS.
93% is quite high no doubt, but for Allegiant's game plan adding another frequency or two to 93% could be the straw that broke the camel's back. They've been known to have BELF's up in the upper 80's. You may have already reached the saturation point for flights to that destination for an airline like G4, Allegiant is smart enough to realize that it's going to be tough to pull anyone with rewards/miles away from FL (CAK/PIT) US (PIT) and CO (CLE) despite the proximity.
As for LAS.. that's a lonnnnng way for a Mad Dog, and ties the plane up for the majority of the day. With the fares to LAS out of PIT, CAK, and CLE it would be hard to woo customers to G4 in such a way that would make up for such a long haul. Look at Toledo for example.
YNGguins From United States, joined Jun 2007, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1060 times:
You bring up some good points Tornado82. I understand what you are saying, and I really pushed for YNG to get LAS service when it was absent from CAK, but now its back at CAK, and so competition may hurt their chances of selling high on most flights.
BTW: They got their new master plan approved and that should be up on their website within the coming weeks, I guess it focuses on GA, but also has an emphasis on the introduction of business flights again. They also got the FAA to approve a PFC of $4.50 on tickets. That will be used for bathrooms in the gated area, as well as improvements to the terminal
YNGguins From United States, joined Jun 2007, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1052 times:
KarlB737 --- Your post made the local paper, well at least it will tomorrow.
I responded to the Youngstown Vindicator and asked them if they found the information out via my blog.
FATFlyer From United States, joined May 2001, 4366 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1032 times:
Quoting YNGguins (Reply 14): FATFlyer: I know your the insider here on Airliners.net re: Allegiant Air news. Have you heard anything at all regarding YNG?
I haven't heard anything lately. Now that the company is public (SEC regulations are now in play) the information flow is changed so I don't hear things like I used to.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
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From United States, joined Mar 2004, 2185 posts, 
From , joined today!, posts, 
I can see ORD, CLT, and even CVG... but CMH is sooooo close!
