Cadet57 From United States, joined Jul 2005, 6351 posts, RR: 18 Reply 3, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11053 times:
Quoting JetBlueJackets (Reply 2): the formation of an airline like all others, and the ultimate demise of SX
And Jetblue's CEO stepped down. Whats your point besides another lame attempt at a Skybus bash? Really its quite pathetic to watch you people whine and moan about how terrible they are and how they are doomed to failure...
Rampart From United States, joined Aug 2005, 1010 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10947 times:
Quoting JetBlueJackets (Reply 2): the formation of an airline like all others, and the ultimate demise of SX
You probably know more than what was linked, because the article mentions nothing ominous nor hinting of demise. CEOs come and go. Neeleman left Morris to WestJet to JetBlue to [Brazil?]. No failures there, Morris was sold for a profit, WestJet is Canada's 2nd largest, JetBlue going on 8 years now.
JetBlueJackets From United States, joined Oct 2007, 156 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10869 times:
Quoting Rampart (Reply 4): And Jetblue's CEO stepped down. Whats your point besides another lame attempt at a Skybus bash? Really its quite pathetic to watch you people whine and moan about how terrible they are and how they are doomed to failure...
Neeleman saw the first 7 years of B6, which turned into an effective, established carrier. SX's CEO couldn't last a year with his "revolutionary" plan. Now you tell me how the two are at all similar.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 22028 posts, RR: 63 Reply 6, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10870 times:
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3):
And Jetblue's CEO stepped down.
Not within a year of start-up.
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3): Whats your point besides another lame attempt at a Skybus bash? Really its quite pathetic to watch you people whine and moan about how terrible they are and how they are doomed to failure...
What's your problem? Some people don't agree with their business model and do think it's doomed to failure, and people are welcome to think that. I don't understand why so many people believe that just because somebody disagrees with the way an airline is running, that means they hate the airline. That simply isn't true. Many people - myself included - are simply being very critical about their business model which, so far, is not working.
We have an airline who is dropping new routes quite quickly, slashing frequencies at their new Greensboro "focus city" and whose plan to fight high fuel prices essentially consists of adding more capacity and routes to Florida in the dead of summer. What a great idea. In less than ten months, Skybus has already discontinued more cities than JetBlue has in their entire existence.
Quoting Rampart (Reply 4): You probably know more than what was linked, because the article mentions nothing ominous nor hinting of demise.
You're right, I would fully expect Skybus to reveal everything and the Columbus Dispatch - the parent company of which is a major Skybus investor - to tell us the complete story.
They aren't. Skybus and Jetblue are apples and oranges. Only similarity is the Airbus. Now you tell me how the resignation of the CEO is bringing about the demise of Skybus.
Nothing. Im just tired of the people who come in here bitch about skybus say how they ruin the industry and whatever their new angle of attack is and provide nothing positive to a discussion on them.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): We have an airline who is dropping new routes quite quickly, slashing frequencies at their new Greensboro
So GSO isnt working for them. Its better then flying the routes and loosing more money. AA at RDU? DL and DFW? I could go on. But of corse, if AA or UA drops a route its all "oh good idea, its better to pull out then take a loss"
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): Skybus has already discontinued more cities than JetBlue has in their entire existence.
So what? They realized those cities arent making money and again, instead of loosing more money, cut the city. But on this board it seems Jetblue can do no wrong and if Skybus does the same, they're doomed to failure...
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): That simply isn't true. Many people - myself included - are simply being very critical about their business model which, so far, is not working.
I diddnt say you hated skybus. If you do thats your thing. My post is more geared twords those who bash them just because they are cheap, rather fragmented at the moment with routes and still getting their network laid out. I've never flown them, nor an employee, but I still give them credit for getting as far as they have.
Mptpa From United States, joined Feb 2006, 405 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10690 times:
I agree that the resignation of the CEO does not mean the demise of a company. Do anyone know what their business plan is based on? What was the anticipated oil price and their pricing structure based on? If it was like all others, then they would have to tack on a chunk as fuel surcharge. Would that still price them as competitive, and can they sustain their low-cost competitive advantage? If their pricing is still lower than their competitors, then could. They are tapping the untapped markets (secondary, small city pairs) so they should in theory be ok for now. It all depends on the economy and how many "leisure" travelers are willing to travel.
Richierich From United States, joined Nov 2000, 2808 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10617 times:
Quoting JetBlueJackets (Reply 5): Neeleman saw the first 7 years of B6, which turned into an effective, established carrier. SX's CEO couldn't last a year with his "revolutionary" plan. Now you tell me how the two are at all similar.
Very well said.
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3): Whats your point besides another lame attempt at a Skybus bash? Really its quite pathetic to watch you people whine and moan about how terrible they are and how they are doomed to failure...
Who is bashing Skybus? They are floundering financially - do you not agree? - and now the CEO quits. Some people think the writing is on the board. That's it.
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7): Considering there was reports of him starting a new airline maybe he wants to work more with that. Its called a new job.
Again, not bashing Skybus, but it sure makes you wonder why he left his "old job".
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8): Nothing. Im just tired of the people who come in here bitch about skybus say how they ruin the industry and whatever their new angle of attack is and provide nothing positive to a discussion on them.
First of all, Cadet, let me help you differentiate between the people who think Skybus is the lowlife of the industry versus the people who believe Skybus' model is not going to work. I happen to suscribe to the latter. I don't care who flies on Skybus but I do feel like some of the key decisions Skybus chose to make (i.e., flogging of products for sale/commission, not having a 1-800 number, choosing to hub at CMH and GSO, etc.) are not good ones. No need to get so touchy.
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8): But on this board it seems Jetblue can do no wrong and if Skybus does the same, they're doomed to failure...
You seem to be the only one who keeps comparing Skybus and Jetblue. Why, I have no idea, but you keep bringing it up. And who has said that JetBlue can do no wrong?
Various members on just about every Skybus thread.
Quoting Richierich (Reply 10): They are floundering financially - do you not agree?
Id say they are not doing well. But i've not looked at their numbers.
Quoting Richierich (Reply 10): Again, not bashing Skybus, but it sure makes you wonder why he left his "old job".
Agreed. But we'll probably never know.
Quoting Richierich (Reply 10): (i.e., flogging of products for sale/commission, not having a 1-800 number, choosing to hub at CMH and GSO, etc.) are not good ones. No need to get so touchy.
Im not going to pretend those are not good ideas. I always found the phone number thing absurd. As for CMH, well, they have to start somwhere and GSO, well that was just odd. Im not touchy, Im just tired of reading all the posts here that go on and on predicting their demise and how they are the pits.
Quoting Richierich (Reply 10): Why, I have no idea, but you keep bringing it up. And who has said that JetBlue can do no wrong?
Well, it was my analogy to the thread opener considering his name had Jetblue in it, he seemed to be one of their fanboys. And MAH mentioned B6 as well so I replied to that. As for jetblue doing no wrong, there are a few of the Blue Kool-Aid drinkers here that would subscrube to that theory. I flew them once, I had a bum PTV for 6h:30m....
Rampart From United States, joined Aug 2005, 1010 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10466 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): You're right, I would fully expect Skybus to reveal everything and the Columbus Dispatch - the parent company of which is a major Skybus investor - to tell us the complete story.
Fine. Aren't they supposed to disclose that by law? Maybe not, but I usually hear these disclosure statements from news organizations who are connected. How about you finding corroborating or even contradicting press, or perhaps waiting until it comes out, before expressing the doom based on the linked non-news story? There may well be negative press out of this, but certainly not based on what we see at the moment. Or is fanning the flames of panic business as usual these days (seems so)? I'm not an investor nor employee, just curious. I can afford to be patient and wait for accurate news if I need to.
Quoting JetBlueJackets (Reply 5): SX's CEO couldn't last a year with his "revolutionary" plan. Now you tell me how the two are at all similar.
I'm not intending to draw any strong parallels between Diffenderfer and Neeleman, just saying the turnover is not uncommon, and usually means some sort of adjustment in the company, be it a year or seven years going. It wasn't Diffenderfer's plan, however, and the ones with the plan are still in place. From what I understand, and I'm not well versed in this and correct me if I'm wrong, the man now in charge, Hodge, and the president Gile, are more the airline people than Diffenderfer was. Gile may in fact be a closer comparison to Neeleman.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 22028 posts, RR: 63 Reply 13, posted (3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10393 times:
Quoting Rampart (Reply 12):
Fine. Aren't they supposed to disclose that by law? Maybe not, but I usually hear these disclosure statements from news organizations who are connected.
The majority of their articles on Skybus have disclosed it.
Rampart From United States, joined Aug 2005, 1010 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10288 times:
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11): Im not touchy, Im just tired of reading all the posts here that go on and on predicting their demise and how they are the pits.
I agree with you. I am someone with no investment interest, no links to employment, and am only barely a frequent flier in a couple plans, but I enjoy seeing growth and change in this industry. It surprises me the range of negativism on this discussion group when it comes to change in anything (while I recognize plenty of positive supporters as well.. I just thought we'd all be fans of new things. Naive me.) Airlines drop like flies, yet some are successful despite the negative beliefs at their founding: WestJet, JetBlue, Ryan Air, Easy Jet, Frontier, even Southwest. I'm in favor of giving the likes of ExpressJet, Skybus, and Virgin America a chance to work through perhaps even a few years of net minus. The dropped flies were not necessarily bad ideas, but some of them lacked patience, coherence, or stamina.
I can see skepticism in certain business plans, which is why capitalization efforts needs to be conservative. But SB managed to rack up 160 million in funds somehow, presumably from smart people. I may not ever fly them, nor want to, but it will be interesting to see what they can do, and don't think the writing is on the wall, yet.
MaverickM11 From United States, joined Apr 2000, 9729 posts, RR: 38 Reply 15, posted (3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10262 times:
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7): Now you tell me how the resignation of the CEO is bringing about the demise of Skybus.
It's a red flag. A big, giant, red flag in a sea of red flags that have come from the general CMH direction recently.
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8): Nothing. Im just tired of the people who come in here bitch about skybus say how they ruin the industry and whatever their new angle of attack is and provide nothing positive to a discussion on them.
I don't think anyone really noticed them, other than DL out of CMH. SX was taking traffic, if any at all, that no one else wanted anyway.
Rampart From United States, joined Aug 2005, 1010 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10240 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13): The majority of their articles on Skybus have disclosed it.
OK. I don't count the Dispatch among my commonly read news sources. Their investment rang a bell for me somewhere, and most likely from some linked Columbus Dispatch story in the past. Probably common knowledge to Ohioans now and doesn't warrant constant repeating to their main readership. Still...
But give me some credit about truth in journalism! I don't take reporting at face value. I corroborate with additional reports, if I'm at all interested.
Skibum9 From United States, joined Nov 2001, 1028 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10221 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6): Some people don't agree with their business model and do think it's doomed to failure, and people are welcome to think that. I don't understand why so many people believe that just because somebody disagrees with the way an airline is running, that means they hate the airline. That simply isn't true. Many people - myself included - are simply being very critical about their business model which, so far, is not working.
MAH, I have to somewhat agree with Cadet57s statement and a bit of yours, since you were careful to point your statement towards "an airline" and not just SX. There are a number of people on this board that slam SX every chance they get, which they are entitled to, but if someone disagrees with another airline's plan, say DL, everyone is quick to jump all of that person, claiming them to be an armchair CEO and other things to discredit them. The point being that this board is full of hypocrits. If it is OK to question SX's business plan, and we are to respect that person's opinion, then the same should hold true to anyone questioning any airline's business plan. The fact is that this is a forum, in which every
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