Search found 972 matches

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by dbo861
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines starts repainting Airbus fleet
Replies: 454
Views: 97358

Re: Alaska Airlines starts repainting Airbus fleet

N854VA (VX name "Stand Up Flyer") and N636VA (VX name "Airplane 2.0") are both now out of the paint shop. https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/77089_1537161279.jpg https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/3/8/4/5198483.jpg?v=v4d444ae7755 apologize if its in here but 9 pages is...

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by dbo861
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100
Replies: 84
Views: 20152

Re: Interior pics of Delta's first A220-100

Looks like a nice aircraft. NOT a fan of the cheesy, bean counter driven visual cabin divider. Bring back the hard wall and make F respectable again! What is Y seat pitch? I agree that they look cheesy, until you sit in that first row of Economy. I feel like you get more legroom in those seats than...

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by dbo861
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:19 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 10/14/2018: HUGE UA Change, Numerous Routes Added and Dropped
Replies: 127
Views: 18115

Re: OAG Changes: HUGE UA Change, Numerous Routes Added and Dropped

WN ELP-SAN JAN 0.1>0.9[0] FEB 0.1>1.1[0] MAR 0.2>1.2[0.1] APR 0.1>1.1[0.2] MAY 0.1>1.1[0.1] JUN 0.0>0.3[0.1] WN SAN-SJC JAN 11>12[11] FEB 11>12[11] MAR 11>12[11] APR 11>12[11] MAY 11>12[11] WN SAN-SMF JAN 11>12[11] FEB 10>12[10] MAR 10>11[10] Interesting... looks like WN found an extra 737 sitting ...

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by dbo861
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:22 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon
Replies: 594
Views: 55033

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

amcnd wrote:
SkyWest has 4 aircraft ruffly flying DAL-DCA/LGA... those routes end soon. So that will shift 4 aircraft basically west. So they will have access to add flights somewhere... we should know soon..

Do we know when these flights end and what they’re doing with the slots?

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by dbo861
Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service
Replies: 66
Views: 8059

Re: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service

Curious as to when WN go to Midway or Denver which would really connect PAE to the rest of the US. United seems to have two flights to Denver which would have good connections. Otherwise these flights are all regional West Coast. Any speculation as to so few flights to really good connections to th...

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by dbo861
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:01 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service
Replies: 66
Views: 8059

Re: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service

Speculation and Rumor on gate times are as followed. [...] LAX 12:20 (1) 13:10 PHX SFO 13:20 (1) 14:10 PDX SNA 14:20 (1) 15:20 SFO [...] OAK 09:45 (2) 10:40 LAS (WN) SFO 10:55 (2) 11:45 SFO (UA) LAS 12:10 (2) 13:00 OAK (WN) DEN 13:35 (2) 14:25 DEN (UA) Boy those are some tight schedules. Wonder wha...

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by dbo861
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:06 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service
Replies: 66
Views: 8059

Re: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service

Coronado990 wrote:
There's always that! However, I recall SAN being on the original list and that is why I questioned it.


It was. https://blog.alaskaair.com/alaska-airlines/news/paine-field-destinations-announced/

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by dbo861
Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 9/30/2018:AC Drops YYZ-MDT/ROC/SYR;DL Adds BOS-LIS, Drops SGU-SLC;F9 Drops CHS-ORD;UA Drops SGU-DEN/LAX
Replies: 44
Views: 6903

Re: OAG Changes 9/30/2018:AC Drops YYZ-MDT/ROC/SYR;DL Adds BOS-LIS, Drops SGU-SLC;F9 Drops CHS-ORD;UA Drops SGU-DEN/LAX

WN DSM-PHX DEC 0.5>1.0[0] JAN 0.1>0.3[0.2]

This is a small increase but DSM-PHX is now daily through January 6. The daily flight was originally supposed to end December 15 but now it goes through the holidays. It'll be nice to have 4 daily WN flights at DSM..if only for 2 months.

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by dbo861
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:54 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service
Replies: 66
Views: 8059

Re: Update on PAE (Everett) Commercial Passenger Service

Did we already know that Southwest was planning 3 OAK flights and 2 LAS flights? I don't remember them announcing which cities were going to be served for the 5 daily flights.

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by dbo861
Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018
Replies: 125
Views: 11820

Re: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018

most annoying are posts that include "here are all the cities West of the Mississippi that WN doesn't have nonstop service to from XXX" airport "well they COULD add AAA-BBB, or CCC-DDD or maybe even AAA-CCC and AAA-DDD but don't forget this is a good chance to do DDD-EEE or FFF-GGG a...

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by dbo861
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:03 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: JetBlue to add Basic Economy product. Company “success is at risk” if not matches others
Replies: 179
Views: 15787

Re: JetBlue to add Basic Economy product. Company “success is at risk” if not matches others

These decisions are really helping Southwest solidify their own position in the market. Southwest went from the original no-frills airline to the airline that won't sacrifice comfort or flexibility for price. It's really fascinating. In the end, I think there is a case for an airline like Southwest...

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by dbo861
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018
Replies: 125
Views: 11820

Re: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018

^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ This extension was the icing on the cake for these threads, WN isn't doing anything with their route network (outside of HI). Aren't they on a hiring freeze? Nope. Still hiring system wide especially in the mega cities. For the Above the wing pilots are needed for big retirement...

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by dbo861
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska announces El Paso (ELP)!
Replies: 82
Views: 7485

Re: Alaska announces El Paso (ELP)!

SurfandSnow wrote:
ELP has really been on a roll lately. I didn't realize it was a top unserved market from SEA. I guess that's why we still haven't seen the likes of SEA-DSM/FAR/FSD/MRY/MSN/TUL yet!


Does anyone have a list of the top markers not served from SEA now that they are starting the ELP nonstop?

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by dbo861
Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018
Replies: 125
Views: 11820

Re: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018

I'm seeing SJC-ELP Sunday only service starting 4/14. You’ve gotta wonder if they knew something in advance (or the other way around) as AS announces SEA/SAN-ELP today ... What does once weekly ELP-SJC have to do with daily nonstops to ELP-SAN/SEA? ELP and SAN are big military cities and SEA is a b...

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by dbo861
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:04 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018
Replies: 125
Views: 11820

Re: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018

Even though WN already has nonstop service to most of its domestic destinations out of MDW, WN could add MDW-ELP and MDW-RIC nonstop service. WN is still expanding its domestic operation at HOU, and WN could add HOU-CVG, HOU-CLE, HOU-DTW, HOU-MSP, HOU-ONT, and HOU-SFO nonstop service. In addition t...

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by dbo861
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018
Replies: 125
Views: 11820

Re: WN's Next Schedule Extension Due Out Sept 27, 2018

https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-sc ... TSCHEDULES
-->

mtnwest1979 wrote:
Wasn't it out off until mid November? Hawaii ain't happening for awhile...


They moved it to middle of November for a few days but it’s back to Sept 27 now.

https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-sc ... TSCHEDULES

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by dbo861
Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:19 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: OAG Changes 9/9/2018:AA Adds PHX-MSN/GRR;DL Drops CVG-PHX,DTW-PIA;F9 Drops CLT-AUS/SAT;LA Drops LIM-MCO;UA Adds LAX-RDD
Replies: 90
Views: 11411

Re: OAG Changes 9/9/2018:AA Adds PHX-MSN/GRR;DL Drops CVG-PHX,DTW-PIA;F9 Drops CLT-AUS/SAT;LA Drops LIM-MCO;UA Adds LAX-

I see the GRR additions as just capacity moved from DTW to better serve the Michigan market. DTW lost frequencies to both MIA and PHX on American while GRR saw adds so to me that's just a shifting of capacity to better serve the states market Looks like GRR will be getting a mainline A319, and MSN ...

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by dbo861
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:52 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

FYI. We are currently accepting air reservations through April 7, 2019. On September 27, 2018 we will open our schedule for sale through June 8, 2019. This date is subject to change! Please check back frequently. https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GFOOTER-FLY-FLTSCHEDULES...

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by dbo861
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:42 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

mtnwest1979 wrote:
Uh, 9/27 until 11/15 is just shy of 3 weeks, not a month and a half..


There's a whole month in there called October.

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by dbo861
Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

FYI. We are currently accepting air reservations through April 7, 2019. On September 27, 2018 we will open our schedule for sale through June 8, 2019. This date is subject to change! Please check back frequently. https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GFOOTER-FLY-FLTSCHEDULES...

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by dbo861
Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:13 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

Anyone else notice the wanna get away fares are already sold out and I have seen a lot of $500+ one way fares Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk This happened to me when I was booking a flight when one of the releases initially came out. I wanted to connect in Denver for Reno and I ended up doing...

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by dbo861
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

I feel like before every extension, we get all hyped up and when the extension occurs, changes/additions are usually very little. Exactly! Also consider, Boeing has slowed 738MAX deliveries due to engine supplier issues and WN should start Hawaii by next spring so they're probably keeping some slac...

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by dbo861
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

Is that 5,576 number LAX-SEA specifically, or the enter LA basin to SEA? If you're including both Dallas airports-LAX in your justification above, it's only fair you compare all LA airports-SEA, which tomorrow alone AS has 28 flights in each direction between SEA and ONT/SNA/LAX/BUR, DL has 15. It'...

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by dbo861
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

Or the 5th carrier on LAX-SEA which currently has 32 daily flights: AS 15x daily DL 10x daily AA 5x daily UA 2x daily AS, DL, AA, UA, and WN all currently serve SLC nonstop from LAX, and there is significantly more O&D demand on SEA-LAX than there is on SLC-LAX. AS, DL, AA, UA, WN, and NK all a...

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by dbo861
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:15 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30
Replies: 177
Views: 14973

Re: Upcoming WN schedule extension on 8/30

The top destinations in the contiguous U.S. traveled to from LAX that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from LAX include SEA, EWR, BOS, MCO, IAD, MSP, PHL, DTW, CLE, RDU, CVG, CLT, and CMH. Of these destinations, the routes that WN would most likely add out of LAX if WN adds new nonstop routes out...

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by dbo861
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:12 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon
Replies: 594
Views: 55033

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

SEA to GRR is too far for an e-jet and doesn’t have enough demand for anything bigger. I predict DSM on an e-jet will be announced. SEA-GRR is only 35nm farther than SFO-MSN and United is able to operate EJets on that route. I’m not sure how much 35nm matters(not even 10 minutes flying time), but i...

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by dbo861
Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon
Replies: 594
Views: 55033

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

SEA to GRR is too far for an e-jet and doesn’t have enough demand for anything bigger. I predict DSM on an e-jet will be announced. SEA-GRR is only 35nm farther than SFO-MSN and United is able to operate EJets on that route. I’m not sure how much 35nm matters(not even 10 minutes flying time), but i...

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by dbo861
Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:49 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon
Replies: 594
Views: 55033

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

SEA-DSM on an E175..please for the love of GOD!

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by dbo861
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:10 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Question regarding next SWA extension?
Replies: 1
Views: 293

Re: Question regarding next SWA extension?

https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-sc ... TSCHEDULES

We are currently accepting air reservations through March 6, 2019. On August 30,2018 we will open our schedule for sale through April 5, 2019. This date is subject to change! Please check back frequently.
-->

https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-sc ... TSCHEDULES

We are currently accepting air reservations through March 6, 2019. On August 30,2018 we will open our schedule for sale through April 5, 2019. This date is subject to change! Please check back frequently.

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by dbo861
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:21 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Philadelphia route expansion?
Replies: 133
Views: 11073

Re: Philadelphia route expansion

FSDan wrote:
The PHL hub has definitely been rounded out quite a bit with mid-sized domestic markets in the last year (OKC, OMA, DSM, MSN, PNS, etc.), but there are maybe a few more good options for AA.


Speaking of, these routes have operated for almost a whole summer now. I'm curious how they've performed.

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by dbo861
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:31 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018
Replies: 474
Views: 52082

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

From the article - I spoke privately with Andy Watterson, Executive Vice President; Chief Revenue Officer. He was a pleasure to speak with and was forthcoming about Southwest Hawaii plans (as was the entire team). Andy indicated that flights will be announced imminently (by October), with flights t...

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by dbo861
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:50 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: United updating brand with new colors
Replies: 128
Views: 24781

Re: United updating brand with new colors

Will this lead to a new livery?

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by dbo861
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:12 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018
Replies: 474
Views: 52082

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

https://www.southwest.com/html/air/newservicehawaii.html Here it is. While specific routes are not yet available for purchase, our initial intention is to begin Hawaii nonstop service from Oakland (OAK), San Diego (SAN), San Jose (SJC), and Sacramento (SMF).*Subject to required government approvals....

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by dbo861
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:57 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28
Replies: 256
Views: 21566

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

flydulles wrote:
Wow next schedule not till August 16 I think wonder if they making this longer to work on Hawaii ?

Or maybe Hawaii will be a separate announcement and that’s where all the capacity will go with all these reductions. Hawaii will be big enough to announce separate from a routine schedule release.

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by dbo861
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28
Replies: 256
Views: 21566

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like there’s a lot of reductions on this release and not many additions. Where’s the capacity going?

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by dbo861
Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:43 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28
Replies: 256
Views: 21566

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

OMA: LAX-Gone, it was just announced as daily year-round and had a press release on it, 2 months later it doesn't get extended beyond January 6th. VERY unusual for Southwest. DSM: All same as last year, except there is a PHX flight SAT only. Maybe the competition against AA's daily OMA-LAX flight w...

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by dbo861
Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:30 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28
Replies: 256
Views: 21566

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

DSM-PHX comes back Saturday only. Last year it was Saturday/Sunday and this fall it's operating daily. I figure they're waiting to see how the daily flight goes before they make it permanent.

No other changes at DSM.

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by dbo861
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:58 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28
Replies: 256
Views: 21566

Re: Southwest Schedule Extension 6/28

Last year they had seasonal, weekend only DSM-PHX with the winter extension and last schedule release they added daily daily DSM-PHX thru the middle of December. Hopefully they bring back a daily flight or at least weekend service until April like last year.

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by dbo861
Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:13 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

Full release info for those interested. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/southwest-airlines-extends-flight-schedule-through-early-2019-300657031.html It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX. I watched this pretty close last winter when it operated for 2-3 months. Bes...

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by dbo861
Thu May 31, 2018 6:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

Full release info for those interested. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/southwest-airlines-extends-flight-schedule-through-early-2019-300657031.html It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX. I think it's Saturday service only. Flyguy It’s daily Nov 6-Dec 15. Only for...

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by dbo861
Thu May 31, 2018 6:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html


It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX.
-->

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Full release info for those interested.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html


It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX.

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by dbo861
Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

There's a daily DSM-PHX flight. This was weekends only last year, and didn't begin until January. Edit: Unless they haven't fully loaded the schedule yet, this flight appears to end December 15. This flight is on a 738. This is a huge bump for a small station like DSM, going from 3 flights a day to...

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by dbo861
Thu May 31, 2018 11:59 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

Flights are bookable now.

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by dbo861
Thu May 31, 2018 11:39 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

ryanrap1 wrote:
Oh noooo! I thought this was suppose to go through Jan 3!!!


I was referring to the DSM-PHX flight. I only see it on the Flight Schedules page through December 15. This schedule goes until the first week of January.

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by dbo861
Thu May 31, 2018 11:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

There's a daily DSM-PHX flight. This was weekends only last year, and didn't begin until January.

Edit: Unless they haven't fully loaded the schedule yet, this flight appears to end December 15.

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by dbo861
Thu May 31, 2018 9:53 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

ryanrap1 wrote:
Any idea as to what time the schedule will go live? I just looked but hasn’t been opened up. I was going to try to book my Christmas trip!


I think it's normally around 6am Central time.

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by dbo861
Mon May 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31
Replies: 263
Views: 23104

Re: WN's Upcoming Winter Schedule Release on 5/31

I’m hoping WN brings back the seasonal DSM-PHX flight with this extension. Last year it didn’t begin until January, but I could see them bring it back earlier this season so it will benefit from holiday traffic.

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by dbo861
Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Hawaiian: E195-E2 a viable 717 replacement?
Replies: 25
Views: 6285

Re: Hawaiian: E195-E2 a viable 717 replacement?

Delta's B717s probably have a lot lower cycles on them, Hawaiian could buy some of the newest from that fleet as DL is introducing the CS100. Honestly, something like that could be a good idea....have HA and DL sublease a few 717's off eachother for a few years, say in between heavy C or D checks. ...

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by dbo861
Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:42 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: AA to retire 45 737-800's
Replies: 112
Views: 25216

Re: AA to retire 45 737-800's

A D-check is not that expensive, $2-3M for 737s, and if it was truly due then it’s customary for the seller to take the full cost of the upcoming check out of the sale price. If it was due sometime in the future then a pro-rated portion of the check cost would come out of the price. Indeed, that's ...

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