Search found 5404 matches

by Avianca
Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:33 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Lufthansa Group News and Discussion - 2024
Replies: 237
Views: 63345

Re: Lufthansa Group News and Discussion - 2024

Will fly LH on Friday. My daily review of the various strikes tells me that I will be lucky but can anyone please confirm? :-/ Thursday is the last day of strikes. So you should be okay. Thanks for your feedback. But I‘m not okay because: At HAJ, DTM, NRN, DRS, LEJ there will be a strike of the sec...

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by Avianca
Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:50 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central America Aviation - 2024
Replies: 203
Views: 14512

Re: Central America Aviation - 2024

Avianca can do a flight BOG-MAD-SAL-MAD-BOG, so the 787 would not be based on SAL. It's a good point. Medellin and Cali are getting non-stop flights to Spain as AV MDE-MAD-MDE 4x weekly and AV CLO-MAD-CLO 3x weekly. These 787-8s are based exclusively in Bogota and usually scheduled as BOG-MAD-CLO-M...

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by Avianca
Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central America Aviation - 2024
Replies: 203
Views: 14512

Re: Central America Aviation - 2024

LightChop2Chop wrote:
How does CM handle pax flying from say BOG to ADZ? are those treated as domestic Colombian Pax? in theory those pax shouldn't even need a passport.


I assume they are not selling this or any other "domestic" Colombian route via PTY.

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by Avianca
Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:11 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Colombia Aviation - 2024
Replies: 34
Views: 3736

Re: Colombia Aviation - 2024

YUL by AV is excellent news. AC is reducing capacity to South America, so these 4 new frequencies on top of its daily YYZ and AC’S 3 weekly frequencies from YUL and 3 from YYZ makes BOG a decent distribution centre for passengers between Canada and different parts of Colombia, plus Ecuador, Peru an...

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by Avianca
Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:28 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central America Aviation - 2024
Replies: 203
Views: 14512

Re: Central America Aviation - 2024

CM has grounded its 21 B737-900MAX as of US FAA request. CM will perform check-ups to all of its fleet and expect to finish the inspection within 24 hours. Press release: https://www.prensa.com/economia/copa-airlines-suspende-temporalmente-21-aviones-boeing-737-max-9/ From http://www.prensa.com - i...

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by Avianca
Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:45 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Turkish Aviation - 2024
Replies: 316
Views: 27043

Re: Turkish Aviation - January 2024

EZE and SCL might be candidates for the A35K? They are both over 7600 miles and at least 800 miles longer than the current longest IST-LAX. Also IST-MEX might go nonstop both ways. Is the A35K able to make it MEX-IST with a full payload? If so, one daily flight nonstop MEX-IST would surely be a gam...

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by Avianca
Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:28 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central America Aviation - 2024
Replies: 203
Views: 14512

Re: Central America Aviation - 2024

Re: ONT-Central America I’ve this feeling that AV GUA-ONT, at least twice-weekly (daytime rotation, weekends only?) might work. However, CM PTY-ONT, I’m not really sure. About CM on PTY-ONT, if correctly scheduled, they should be able to fill at least a 4 x weekly fights at the beginning. Yield-wis...

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by Avianca
Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:18 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024
Replies: 803
Views: 143904

Re: Delta Air Lines Network - 2024

New for 2024: -JFK-NAP/MUC/SNN -ATL-ZRH -LAX-PVG -SEA-TPE -More flights on ATL-VCE/ICN/CDG, JFK-BCN, BOS-ATH, DTW-CDG/KEF, CVG-CDG What I'd like to see for 2024: -The return/launch of ATL/MSP-OGG (both were shelved due to the Lahaina fires) -More SEA-Asia as a preemptive strike against AS getting H...

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by Avianca
Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:05 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Romanian A340 stopped at Paris Vatry Airport
Replies: 53
Views: 14987

Re: Romanian A340 stopped at Paris Vatry Airport

Interesting information if true. Isn't there a legit source about this? The link in French I gave above shows some Legend Airlines recent flights (two A340 aircraft) to Managua, last summer to San Salvador as well. Flightradar24 LZ1215 flight history: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lz12...

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by Avianca
Sat Dec 23, 2023 7:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Turkish Aviation - December 2023
Replies: 101
Views: 15834

Re: Turkish Aviation - December 2023

What chances to get 2024 more connectivity from IST to new Central and South American and Caribbean destinations? SCL/LIM/SJO/GUA/SDQ/PUJ/POS came into mind?

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by Avianca
Sat Dec 23, 2023 6:44 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central America Aviation - 2023
Replies: 286
Views: 47005

Re: Central America Aviation - 2023

Short question to our CM experts. Why is Mexico always getting the oldest of the oldest aircraft in the network? Is Mexico a low-yield market for them?

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by Avianca
Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:15 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Romanian A340 stopped at Paris Vatry Airport
Replies: 53
Views: 14987

Re: Romanian A340 stopped at Paris Vatry Airport

I saw some articles about that people flying from Asia/Africa to Central America / Mexico and it seemed that a lot of them use Turkish Airlines. I wonder to what extent this is a major revenue source for TK. I have yet to see 1 single flight of TK ex MEX (during boarding in MEX) that has not at lea...

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by Avianca
Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:23 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LATAM Group News and Discussion - 2023
Replies: 518
Views: 88178

Re: LATAM Group News and Discussion - 2023

LATAM has opened for sale its new SCL-BOG-MAD service, effective 03JUL24 with 787-8 daily service operated by LATAM Chile with 5th freedom traffic rights on all legs. LA710 SCL 15:30 BOG 20:25 - 22:50 MAD 15:40+1 D 788 LA711 MAD 17:25 BOG 20:40 - 23:10 SCL 06:00+1 D 788 nice to have LATAM on the ro...

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by Avianca
Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LATAM Group News and Discussion - 2023
Replies: 518
Views: 88178

Re: LATAM Group News and Discussion - 2023

LATAM has opened for sale its new SCL-BOG-MAD service, effective 03JUL24 with 787-8 daily service operated by LATAM Chile with 5th freedom traffic rights on all legs. LA710 SCL 15:30 BOG 20:25 - 22:50 MAD 15:40+1 D 788 LA711 MAD 17:25 BOG 20:40 - 23:10 SCL 06:00+1 D 788 nice to have LATAM on the ro...

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by Avianca
Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:39 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your 2023 Booked/Flown Flights
Replies: 184
Views: 25740

Re: Your 2023 Booked/Flown Flights

Jan PXM MEX A320 Jan MEX SJD B738 Jan SJD MEX B738 Jan MEX BOG A320 Jan BOG MEX A320 Feb MEX BOG A320 Feb BOG MEX A320 Feb MEX AGU E190 Feb AGU MEX E190 Feb MEX GUA A320 Feb GUA SJO A320 Feb SJO MEX A320 Feb MEX GRU B767 Mar GRU MEX B787 Mar MEX BOG A320 Mar BOG MEX A320 Mar MEX BOG A320 Mar BOG MEX...

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by Avianca
Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:58 am
Forum: Trip Reports
Topic: Back to Europe finally, after 4 years: TK J CCS-IST-HAM vv
Replies: 8
Views: 7297

Re: Back to Europe finally, after 4 years: TK J CCS-IST-HAM vv

great report as always! need to confess that I miss big-time good old CCS and Venezuela of course! seems that TK these days is the backbone for pax into Europe ... also IB and TP restarted again right? I can remember well when I took one of the first TK flights ex CCS - I was stuck in IST for some d...

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by Avianca
Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:44 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Turkish Aviation Thread - December 2022
Replies: 154
Views: 24343

Re: Turkish Aviation Thread - December 2022

after many years - finally I am booked again on a TK flight. later this month BOG-PTY-IST-MUC-IST-BOG. I am not a revenue expert... but I don't get that Business was cheaper than Eco ... booked just some days ago for the peak travel time in December.

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by Avianca
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:32 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avianca to expand international point-to-point connectivity from regional airports in Colombia
Replies: 37
Views: 6146

Re: Avianca to expand international point-to-point connectivity from regional airports in Colombia

Avianca has filed with the Aerocivil for the following route authorities. BOG-BOS (previously served from 2017 to 2019) BOG-CNF BOG-CUZ-LPB-BOG (BOG-CUZ served from 2016 to 2020) CTG-GYE MDE-GYE MDE-SDQ MDE-UIO MDE-SJU BOG-MAO MDE-BCN CLO-BCN https://www.aviationclubcenter.com/avianca-solicita-11-n...

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by Avianca
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:19 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Aeroméxico News and Discussion Thread
Replies: 372
Views: 82719

Re: Aeromexico expanding MTY service

These new AM services from MTY to San Luis Potosi, Leon, Queretaro, and Guadalajara also aim to connect to AM's MTY-MAD flight so as to offer business travelers an alternative to backtracking to MEX. All these cities have a lot of business travel as these are nigh-end manufacturing centers. Quereta...

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by Avianca
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 418
Views: 63900

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2022

Looks like no one has posted this yet. Wingo Panama received its AOC on Aug 12. Via Tweeter: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425936619811581958 Wingo is planning to fly to DAV in 2023, 7fx per week. It is opening HAV and SDQ in Sept and Oct of this year from BLB, 2fx weekly each. https://www.pren...

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by Avianca
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:24 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2022
Replies: 418
Views: 63900

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2022

TK has succeeded in PTY where EK failed. It's a good point. EK DXB-PTY never started in 2016 and TK has demonstrated how an airline can work successfully, in such geographical area. I'm not sure where the demand of passengers on IST-PTY is heading as their final destinations. My point is that TK wo...

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by Avianca
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Turkish Aviation January 2022
Replies: 158
Views: 23246

Re: Turkish Aviation January 2022

I have a flash back! same happened to me exactly 5 years ago, starting Jan 2017 their was the same situation (also still at the former IST airport) - I was actually on a quick hop on the "new" IST-HAV-CCS-IST service ... it was a big mess to get home to CCS

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by Avianca
Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:40 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami
Replies: 51
Views: 7833

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

POS' big population with roots in India has been on the island for generations now. Caribbean a-netters would all agree their links now are stronger with the Trini diaspora in YYZ, NYC, MIA/FLL, LON and to a lesser extend, MCO, HOU, MAN/BHX and one of the major Canadian cities than with India, Paki...

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by Avianca
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:15 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami
Replies: 51
Views: 7833

Re: Colombia CAA: Emirates could launch Bogota via Miami

While I personally would love a DXB-POS flight, that is a pie in the sky route that will (likely) never happen. I’d sooner expect EK to go somewhere touristy like PUJ if it were ever to begin flights to the Caribbean. I was thinking more along the lines of DEX-BOG-POS-DXB to fight the hot-and-high ...

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by Avianca
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:09 am
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Who Here Has Flown on Both the 753 and 764?
Replies: 44
Views: 4390

Re: Who Here Has Flown on Both the 753 and 764?

764 on UA - IAH-MUC and 753 FRA-LPA with DE

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by Avianca
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:48 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: AA can’t seem to keep the JFK-SJO AA865 turns AA2280 on time.
Replies: 10
Views: 4642

Re: AA can’t seem to keep the JFK-SJO AA865 turns AA2280 on time.

I was booked on the (I think forth or fight flight) when they started the route and JFK-SJO was cancled due to crew issues...
The hotel that AA paid me anyhow at the end was more expensive than the ticket (that was around 194 USD all in)

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by Avianca
Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:11 am
Forum: Trip Reports
Topic: CCS-MIA crabwise, or getting hooked on classics: Laser DC-9-82 & Swift Air B737-400
Replies: 10
Views: 10159

Re: CCS-MIA crabwise, or getting hooked on classics: Laser DC-9-82 & Swift Air B737-400

great report! unbelivable if we comparte CCS today (even without Covid) and lets say 10 years ago!

cheers
Avianca

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by Avianca
Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:26 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021
Replies: 455
Views: 67111

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

TUI resuming LGW-LIR BA LGW-SJO with 772 hasn't returned to Costa Rica yet. Same with DE FRA-SDQ-SJO. They also briefly flew DE MUC-SDQ-SJO. The increase of frequencies on LH FRA-SJO from 3x to 5x weekly could be also influenced for the absence of Condor Flugdienst in Costa Rica. IB SJO-MAD is also...

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by Avianca
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:51 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021
Replies: 455
Views: 67111

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

any idea why LH increased? This is solely my own interpretation: as of November 2020, Costa Rica eased their policies for the entrance of visitors from both LIR and SJO. Few countries worldwide like Costa Rica have their air-boundaries opened by now. As tourism represents the primary source of reve...

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by Avianca
Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:20 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021
Replies: 455
Views: 67111

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

LH FRA-SJO goes from 3x to 5x weekly as shown: LH 518...FRA 13.40......SJO 17.50..........343.....Tu, Th, Fr, Sa, Su LH 519...SJO 19.35......FRA 15.00+1......343.....Tu, Th, Fr, Sa, Su Effective: March 28th any idea why LH increased? they were basically for years at twice weekly flights, this might...

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by Avianca
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:49 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 405
Views: 50996

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020

make it sense to allow negative test for somebody that arrives from the US but not from somebody from Colombia? Nobody from the Caribbean and South America can enter in Costa Rica by now. I'd expect it'll happen soon. Restraints are changing every 15 days, in average. Local authorities stated how t...

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by Avianca
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 405
Views: 50996

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020

Costa Rican authorities are slowly allowing more passengers from abroad to enter here, based on how nobody infected from coronavirus has arrived to either SJO or LIR, since the resumption of their operations in August. That demonstrates by itself how all the controls have worked successfully: negat...

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by Avianca
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:45 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 405
Views: 50996

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020

it seems that Lufthansa has quite good loads on the FRA-SJO-FRA flights in the premium cabines, specially in business, the fares for September departures ex SJO are between 3800 USD and 4500 USD and ex FRA around 4500 EUR, and the loads are quite high. Eco seems to be a different storry - ex SJO to ...

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by Avianca
Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:24 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 405
Views: 50996

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020

for sure the eastbound will be fully with fresh and juicy Tico Pineapple! Local newspapers have actually mentioned the pineapple cargo on IB MAD-SJO heading to Europe. IB MAD-SJO 2x weekly is switching passengers and cargo, in both ways. Cargo has been properly transported among their empty seats. ...

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by Avianca
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:32 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 405
Views: 50996

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020

for sure the eastbound will be fully with fresh and juicy Tico Pineapple! I dunno. Usually that juicy and tasty Ananas is actually transported by sea. 99% of the volumen, but some high end special pineapple are going via Air - the market moves per year aprox 7000 tons of these per year from CR to E...

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by Avianca
Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:33 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 405
Views: 50996

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020

how IB wants to make flights to SJO work despite the EU ban. Reading La Nacion - August 02nd, IB MAD-SJO will transport 250 passengers on August 03rd, being the first scheduled flight since the airport was opened again. I guess the Airbus 350 would be still programmed as pointing out in June. The b...

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by Avianca
Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:41 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020
Replies: 405
Views: 50996

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2020

Costa Rican citizens are banned for entering now into the EU and probably it will be for many weeks forward, given the huge amount of daily contagious for the time being. My interpretation is that IB MAD-SJO would be welcomed at SJO from August, but no one from Costa Rica is allowed to board the fl...

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by Avianca
Mon May 11, 2020 6:48 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11
Replies: 163
Views: 33459

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

I think I can kiss goodbye my $1500 that I spent last December on txts to SAL for this upcoming summer. tell me about it… I have nearly 10TUSD on pending tickets with them… Your tickets should be safe. That would also be consistent with what happened when say UA or AA filed. As long as the airline ...

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by Avianca
Mon May 11, 2020 2:57 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11
Replies: 163
Views: 33459

Re: Avianca has filed for Chapter 11

many321 wrote:
I think I can kiss goodbye my $1500 that I spent last December on txts to SAL for this upcoming summer.


tell me about it… I have nearly 10TUSD on pending tickets with them…

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by Avianca
Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:34 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Your last trip and the next trip you cancelled
Replies: 49
Views: 3469

Re: Your last trip and the next trip you cancelled

my last trip was back in February

BOG-SJO and SJO-EWR-SIN-RGN-KUL-SIN-EWR-SJO after that I had to cancle like 5 trips SJO-BOG-SJO, SJO-MUC-SJO and SJO-DUB-SJO

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by Avianca
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:25 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: LA add SCL-FRA , drop MAD-FRA
Replies: 20
Views: 4302

Re: LA add SCL-FRA , drop MAD-FRA

LATAM's trans-Pacific and trans-South Atlantic routes are reportedly very profitable due to no competition. They sell onward connections to Asia with CX via JNB (now with them leaving OneWorld this may change) and Europe. They also sell connections to Asia via QF via AKL/SYD/MEL. Do note that LATAM...

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by Avianca
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:35 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020
Replies: 52
Views: 12166

Re: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020

We'll see CDG, YYZ and SFO plus the two new Brazilian routes announed/started this year for sure. Next year we´ll probably see the return of ORD and BOS, and the consolidation of the new frequencies and capacity upgrades that have been launched throughout the whole network. New Spain routes have al...

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by Avianca
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:46 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020
Replies: 52
Views: 12166

Re: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020

Beside CDG - what other market in EUR could be logical, maybe FCO? also interesting to see how the MUC flight will develop - have used it several times so far always fully booked - but mostly with quite low fares to be honest eco and business Star Alliance hubs ZRH and LIS? VIE, BRU and CPH might s...

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by Avianca
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:40 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020
Replies: 52
Views: 12166

Re: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020

what I noted that AV as per summer Schedule massively changed the ETA / ETD of the flights, asume to get as well a better utilization of their fleet Are they increasing or decreasing block times? I could asusme decreasing? That's going to be a tough adjustment operations wise. AV has historically h...

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by Avianca
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:01 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why is UX using a widebody on its MAD-AMS route ?
Replies: 10
Views: 1259

Re: Why is UX using a widebody on its MAD-AMS route ?

its all about cargo.

AMS is the biggest perishable hub in Europe and trucking from MAD into AMS could be too long, in order to be competetive UX is flying the full ULD's incoming from LATAM into MAD with this flight to AMS

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by Avianca
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:00 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route
Replies: 63
Views: 10582

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG. Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot o...

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by Avianca
Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:58 am
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route
Replies: 63
Views: 10582

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

To add to my original comment regarding cargo. Because Ecuador doesn't have a free trade agreement with the US (and Colombia does) a large percentage of Ecuador's export cargo goes to BOG/MDE first. Sorry to say, but this is not true - even if Cargo would go via colombia, the importer would pay bas...

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by Avianca
Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020
Replies: 52
Views: 12166

Re: Avianca: massive BOG expansion in 2020

what I noted that AV as per summer Schedule massively changed the ETA / ETD of the flights, asume to get as well a better utilization of their fleet

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by Avianca
Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:36 pm
Forum: Civil Aviation
Topic: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019
Replies: 353
Views: 53682

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2019

LightChop2Chop wrote:
just that LH is interested. They already fly to PTY and SJO so why not the largest city in Central America. Isn't there a large German population in the capital?


what about combining GUA with SJO - lets say going to a 5 x weeky combined flight?

cheers
Avianca

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by Avianca
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:06 pm
Forum: Travel, Polls & Preferences
Topic: Why are TATL breakfast in Y so minimal?
Replies: 70
Views: 15156

Re: Why are TATL breakfast in Y so minimal?

what is great is Breakfast on LH F - only what they should change is the bread they are serving, specially from the outstations! one breafkast I quite like on AV breakfast flights is the Muesli / Ceral with Yogurth option as well (in eco and business)

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