LY744
Topic Author
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New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Sun May 20, 2001 10:38 am

The Russian press reported that several Russian a/c manufacturers, headed by Sukhoi, are going to develop a 5th generation fighter. The technology demonstrator is supposed to fly in 2006, and the a/c should become operational in 2010. The new fighter is supposed to be the "Russian answer" to the JSF.
It doesn't sound like it is going to be an upgrade of an existing platform, so I am extremely sceptical about the chances of the a/c to fly and become operational in such a short time. When the F-22 becomes operational, it will be over 20 years after its initial development began, with the current condition of the Russian economy, I don't think it is possible to produce a 5th generation fighter in such a short period of time. It looks like the Russians are giving up the S-37, MiG 1.42 and other projects. From the other hand, it is about time Russia creates a new fighter that is not an upgrade to an older platform, that can be somewhat of a match to the JSF and the F-22, maybe its about time Russian manufacturers come together and make an a/c that will actually become operational, even if it will not happen in 2010, I don't think setting unrealistic time limits will do any good to this kind of project.

Any other info on the new project? What do you think about the chances of the a/c to fly and become operational in the time limit specified? What do you think about other similar projects in Russia today? Any thoughts are welcome.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
kolobokman
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Sun May 20, 2001 12:33 pm

S-37 is a 5th generation fighter (It is going to be when It's finished in 2005), as far as I know it is not an upgrade of an existing airplane.
----> http://airwar.ru/photo/s37-1.html
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
jwenting
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Sun May 20, 2001 3:09 pm

S-37 is a proof-of-concept demonstrator.
It is not stealthy, carries no weapons, etc..
Same for the MiG i.42.

Officially, the Ruskies don't have the funds to finance such a project. If they do pull it of, more proof that the entire monetary and military crisis is a big maskirovka to pull the west off guard and get us to disarm. That would of course mean the USSR is still there (which is actually a scenario that seems to have been suggested as early as Stalin).
Not sure what to believe there, the USSR was sure smart enough to pull of big things, but if they could do something this big???
I wish I were flying
 
LY744
Topic Author
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Sun May 20, 2001 9:58 pm

The S-37 and MiG-1.42 are technology demonstrators that were supposed to be developed into operational fighters, but the Russian AF said recently that it is not interested in those two a/c. So, I guess its the end for the S-37 and MiG-1.42. Both the S-37 and MiG-1.42 may be 5th generation fighters, but as Russian experts say, their cockpit design is the same as 3rd generation fighters. Cockpit design is probably something the Russian a/c industry will have to work hard on if they want to create a real 5th generation fighter.

BTW, I like your theory, Jwenting.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Mon May 21, 2001 6:41 pm

Hey guys, here's a bit of info about the plane and its future from a reliable source.

The 35-ton fighter features a single
under-fuselage air intake with two AL41F engines of 20 tons thrust each, and a top speed of over 2,500 km/h. The twin-tail
"duck" planform features an all-moving canard-type foreplane with a wingspan of about 15 meters and a length of about 20
meters.

The MAPO-MiG enterprise claims the new fighter would be able to outperform the F-22 Raptor, the most advanced US
air-superiority fighter. Although the primary mission of the MFI is air-superiority, unlike the F-22 the MFI is also capable of
performing strike mission, and thus in both conception and configuration is more directly comparable to the similar multi-role
EFA2000 Eurofighter. Like the American F-22, the MFI has a thrust vectoring system that allows it to make sharp turns. It
also has similar stealth capabilities, with the canard, wing and fuselage structures incorporating carbon-fiber and polymer
composite materials. Other stealth features include radar-absorbing covering, screening of radar-visible structure elements, and
reduced heat signature. The fifth-generation pulse-doppler radar has a phased-array andtenna with electronic scanning to
simultaneously attack over 20 targets. The aircraft can carry long-range air-to-air and air-to-surface guided missiles, and it is
armed with a 30-mm cannon.

In March 1997, military officials scrapped plans to manufacture the MFI because it was too expensive. The Defense Ministry
supports the MFI development program, and will decide on production following flight tests that could take up to seven years.
The Russian air force will not gain one new, state-of-the-art warplane before the year 2005 because of insufficient financing.
No new warplanes have been acquired since 1996.


All the best,


BBC_CCCP
RUS AF RULES!!!
 
steman
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Mon May 21, 2001 7:51 pm

It would be already a wonderful news for the Russian Air Force if Moscow will buy some Su-37 Terminator, Su-34 (Su-32FN) and MiG-29SMT Fulcrums.

Ciao

Stefano
 
LY744
Topic Author
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Mon May 21, 2001 10:15 pm

Hi, Su508! Sounds like you are talking about the MiG-1.42! I don't think MAPO-MiG is even part of the project I was talking about, I know that Sukhoi deffinetely has a key part in that project.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Mon May 21, 2001 10:56 pm

Hey LY744,

If its Siukhoi, so what is it then S-32/37 or some modification of it?


Regards,



BBC_CCCP
RUS AF RULES!!!
 
Guest

RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Mon May 21, 2001 11:43 pm

Here...

http://members.nbci.com/082499/aviation/sukhoi/s37030.jpg

and

http://members.nbci.com/082499/aviation/sukhoi/s37029.jpg


All the best!


BBC_CCCP
RUS AF RULES!!!

 
LY744
Topic Author
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Tue May 22, 2001 3:07 am

Thanks for the pics, SU508!
Its supposed to be a brand new design, since the Russian AF is not satisfied with neither the S-37 nor the MiG-1.42. But, I think it is quite likely that it will be some sort of modification to existing fighters or technology demonstrators because of the tight schedule proposed. From the other hand, the new fighter is supposed to be an answer to the JSF, and I can't see how the S-37 or the SU-27 family can be modified to do so. Both the S-37 and the MiG-1.42 were designed to match the F-22, a bigger, more sophisticated, and much more expensive fighter than the proposed JSF.
Here is a link to an article about the new project (Russian only): http://www.lenta.ru/russia/2001/05/20/sukhoi/

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Freesz
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Su-32FN

Tue May 22, 2001 8:19 am

Hello guys,

About Stefano's ideia, I think the Su-32FN may be a sucess, just because it's the only pure atack aircraft being develop, as far as we know... This may boost Sukhoi's bank account...

Tchau

Vitor Freesz
 
LY744
Topic Author
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RE: Su-32FN

Tue May 22, 2001 10:29 am

Yes, I hope the SU-34 (SU-32FN) will be a sucess, the Russian AF should start replacing some of its SU-24's. I think the SU-34 has a good export potential.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
steman
Posts: 1400
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Tue May 22, 2001 4:15 pm

All the Su-27 family aircrafts have a high export potential as demonstrated by sells to China, India, Malaysia and Vietnam.
The Su-30MK is a high capable multirole fighter, the Su-34 or -32FN is the only contender of the F-15E Strike Eagle and, in some respects, it is more capable and advanced; the Su-35/37 single seater can be developed into a highly capable air superiority fighter.
The only negative points in the Russian design are avionics and engine reliability but in recent years they demonstrated a huge improvements and foreign customers can choose to fit Western Avionics into their Russian fighters.
I think Moscow should avoid to throw money into hopeless projects and they should concentrate their scarce resources in their strong point: the Flanker family.

Ciao

Stefano
 
jwenting
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Tue May 22, 2001 5:27 pm

I think they want to show the world that they too can develop a new fighter still. If they have nothing to compare the Typhoon or F-22, they will loose the export market quickly, as national prestige looses out.
The only reason they are now exporting their top-products is a severe lack of resources.
In the old days, such aircraft were reserved for their own forces and maybe a few trusted servants. All the others got less advanced equipment to make sure they could be easily beaten if they ever showed their fangs.
With the slow reversal in policy in Moscow, Stavka is likely looking to aqcuire an aircraft that can take on the Su-30 and win with acceptable losses.
I wish I were flying
 
An-225
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Fri May 25, 2001 1:02 pm

I just hope that Russia pulls out of economic crisis and is a force to recon with again some time in the future...
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
jwenting
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Fri May 25, 2001 2:23 pm

You want the USSR back?, 'cause that's what is happening...
Another 70 years of having to sleep in fear of a soviet invasion. I know in the USA there was not a real threat (Soviet amphib forces are not large enough) but in Europe the threat was quite real.
I wish I were flying
 
ILOVEA340
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Fri May 25, 2001 2:51 pm

the swiss airforce has got to get some of those!!!
 
cobra27
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RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Sat May 26, 2001 3:05 am

ILOVEA340 -- what are you talking about????
 
Guest

RE: New Russian 5th Generation Fighter?

Thu May 31, 2001 12:47 am

Jwenting,

What in the world are you talking about???


BBC_CCCP
RUS AF RULES!!!

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