TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

Fastest Fighter Today

Wed May 30, 2001 10:41 pm

What is the fastest non-Russian fighter in service today, in terms of top speed at optimum altitude?
TomH
 
steman
Posts: 1406
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Wed May 30, 2001 10:56 pm

I think the F-15A/C: top speed should be Mach2.5 at altitude for 20 seconds, 2701Kph!

Ciao

Stefano
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 1:00 am

YES steman you are right
 
Guest

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 1:04 am

I would say the F-15E Strike Eagle, but it may have the same specs as the F-15A/C.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 3:30 am

I think the Strike Eagle is slightly slower than the normal one due to its higher weight and the extra drag imposed by the conformal tanks.
I wish I were flying
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 4:38 am

The F-15C/D can also carry those tanks.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 5:20 am

I'd guess the F-15. not sure wether it'd be a or c model. the a's alot lighter, but the c's got more powerful engines. back in the 70's they had a stripped down (i'm talking almost no paint too!) f-15a called the streak eagle set a bunch of world records for altitude, time to climb and some others. got to 98,000 feet in something like 2 or 3 minutes, and got a little bit past 2.5 mach. but that was a stripped down bird and in extremely cold weather.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Nathan Long

 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 7:10 am

That's what I was thinking, the Eagle was tops. It also reminds me of what a performance penalty we pay for stealthiness. The F-117 is after all, an aircraft that has to stay home when the sun shines.
TomH
 
Guest

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 8:28 am

Well, the F-22 is a stealth aircraft and it will be able to cruise at Mach 1 without afterburner. Am I wrong?

The F-117 is subsonic, and really a tactical bomber, not a fighter.
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 8:58 am

i was just going by top speed. the f-22 can't go far past mach 2 because it doesn't have the 'talking' (variable) inlets. i heard somewhere the f-22 can cruise in the neighborhood of 1.4-1.5 mach
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 9:52 am

Fighters with max speeds over 1300kts (Mach 2.25)

F-15: 1433kts
F-111: 1377kts
Su-27: 1350kts
MiG-23: 1349kts
F-14A: 1342kts
MiG-29: 1320kts
Kfir C7: 1315kts
 
Guest

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 10:34 am

What about the MiG-25 Foxbat?
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 10:59 am

Technically, the MiG-25 and -31 are not fighters, yet quite enormus interceptors. The MiG-31's maximum takeoff weight is greater than that of a Fokker F100's. They were designed to quickly get to and shoot down American bombers, not dogfight - that is why they were not included in the list. Yet, aside from the SR-71, they are the fastest aircraft in the sky... 1620kts (Mach 2.83).
 
Aerotech
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 10:44 am

RE:About The Streak Eagle

Thu May 31, 2001 11:55 am

After they had the fuel burned down to the exact amout(somewhere around 7,300lbs), the Streak Eagle punched through the sound barrier 28 seconds after brake release!!!!!  Wow!
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Thu May 31, 2001 8:32 pm

Aerotech,

You are right, the Streak Eagle should be mentioned, though not in regard to speed. This was the name for a project, as I recall, to break the FAI time-to-climb record. As one can expect, this F-15 was specially modified for this purpose, and so was not truly an operational fighter. The nose gear was modified for quick retraction and the aircraft flew as a bare metal platform to save weight. There may have been other steps taken to enhance the climb statistics.

MikeN,

I took a cheap shot at the F-117 because I personally don't appreciate the performance penalties brought about by first generation stealth aircraft. If it weren't for then SecDef Cheney, the USN would now be bringing into service the A-12, another stealth platform. The only plus I could see about that design was that it reminded me of cheap science fiction movies from the 1950s. Not much of a plus. It probably would have had lower performance parameters than the F-117 regarding speed, altitude and maneuverability.

Yes, like you, my impression is that the F-22 has supersonic cruise ability, which they are calling "super cruise." Although as Deuce pointed out, that means well below Mach 2. From what I have read this is a highly automated aircraft, and its relatively long development life should mean it has the latest in black boxes. We have learned with other aircraft, such as the B-1B, these black boxes MUST function properly or the weapon system is compromised to some extent. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the "Bone," though I truly dislike its "charcoal" paint job.

We should see great performance and combat survivability in the F-22. This, and the force multiplier effect should mean we won't have to field too many of these incredibly expensive aircraft, though two wings should be the minimum. Usually a USAF aircraft produced in numbers sufficient to equip only one wing experiences a shortened service life at the tail end of its career, due to high expense with spares, maintainability, reduced training availability and so on. A minimum production run over 10 years of say, 200 F-22s would be nice.

To digress a bit more. I think the F-22 will be the last manned fighter. Like space flight, I don't see the sense in dragging around these made-for-earth bodies of ours in the next generation of combat aircraft. Why pretend we can sustain higher G-figures that we presently experienced in aircraft like the F-16 and F-15? We have too much bone and muscle mass, and we are really only comfortable in a puny 1G environment. I'm sure the electronics industry can produce a pilot replacement box capable of much higher G forces, no family ties, and no retirement benefits. And no need for much sabre-rattling when one falls into enemy hands, just build in self-destruct capability.

H'mm, whatever happened to the top speed issue I was originally talking about? Later....
TomH

TomH
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: RE:About The Streak Eagle

Thu May 31, 2001 8:32 pm

Isn't the MiG-25 capable of mach 3?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 1:59 am

If u include the russian why don't u mention an mig-31
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 2:40 am

LY744 & Fireblade,

I don't know who is being asked the question, but yes, I believe both those aircraft top out around Mach 3. The original question involved non-Russian fighters, but those two may be the fastest overall fighters in regular military service. (They are in regular military service aren't they?)

Here's a question for you. Are they powered by turbofan or turbojet engines?
TomH
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 3:34 am

LY744 & Fireblade, I'll repost my earlier reply:

Technically, the MiG-25 and -31 are not fighters, yet quite enormus interceptors. The MiG-31's maximum takeoff weight is greater than that of a Fokker F100's. They were designed to quickly get to and shoot down American bombers and cruise missiles, not dogfight - that is why they were not included in the list. Yet, aside from the SR-71, they are the fastest aircraft in the sky, both with a max speed of 1620kts (Mach 2.83).
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 6:51 am

Flyf15, again, I'm pretty sure the MiG-25 is capable of speeds as high as 3 mach (maybe more), the MiG-31 is heavier and has different engines so it has a lower max. speed (mach 2.83 sounds right).
And yes, both are in operational service.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Aerotech
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 10:44 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:05 am

Wow, Tom, you brought a tear to my eye. IF they removed the pilot form the fighter, that would be my hell. But I think they will keep pilots in fighters for the same reasons they keep pilots in airlners, the humam brain and it's unparalleled ability to access situations. And there are about a million more accesments to be made in a combat enviroment (Range, vectors to target, speed, altidute, his fuel, my fuel, what AWACS is telling me,ect, ect), so a computer my be more likely to shoot down a friendly aircraft. OR imagine a scenario where some future Russina fighter has stealth capabilities. The computer wouldn't see him on radar, but he could be flying right next to the unmanned aircraft. Fighter pilots always say the number on tool onboard a modern fighter is the mk.1 eyeball and the brain to operate it.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 10:38 am

LY,

How I understand it, both aircraft are limited to 1620kts as a peacetime operational max. Yet, during a wartime emergency situation, the MiG-25 can be pushed to Mach ~3.1 if absolutely necessary. After doing so, major engine maintaince and possibly engine replacement are a must. I'm not sure if the MiG-31 has similar capabilities (but I'd assume so).
 
Guest

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 11:26 am

Aerotech,

I agree with you, fighter pilots will be around for at least another 30-40 years. With the F-22 coming online soon and the X-32 and X-35 aircraft in testing, that should be some assurance. But, like the downsizing during the late-1980s and 90s, there will be less pilots needed because there will be less planes to fly. During Vietnam, for instance, there were 10 planes to perform 10 roles, now there are 5 planes to perform 10 roles. However, I do forsee more unmanned, remote controlled surveillence and tactical bomber-type aircraft coming soon.

Mike
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:27 pm

Guys,

We are getting off my original topic (fastest NATO fighter) with all this Mig-25/31 talk, so I'm going to open up a new topic dedidcated to that series of aircraft. My point on the powerplants on these two aircraft wasn't taken up, so I'll start with that in the new topic.

LY744-it just hit me-are you in VP-92? You can reply by direct Email if you prefer.

Regarding the manned fighter. I'll continue my theme. Don't get me wrong, I would hate to see the "Stick Actuator" (as we called them in my old A-10 unit) taken out of the aircraft, but once the game is on the thinking ability and reflexes of a pilot in a complex High-G environment are not up to the ability of a properly hardened, redundant cybernetic-based system. Pilots may disagree, but they have a vested interest in doing so-namely their future in the sky. I really think a computer is better in combat at the grey-out limit than a flesh and bone pilot.

The lessening need for a pilot is especially true in an AWACS-monitored air-to-air combat scenario. In an identified combat zone (no fly, for instance), we see less human judgement input within the fighter's cockpit and more monitoring of weapon and flight systems. In this invironment, Aerotech, the fuel quantity issue is determined by instruments, the pilot is left trying to intellectually interpret the instrument readout while grunting and groaning his way through the sky. Virtually everything he sees under these conditions could be data-linked via air-to-air relay or satellite to the appropriate controlling center. Let those guys apply the intellectual factor, they are in a 1G air-conditioned environment and can think better. The fuel remaining onboard the bogies is already known to AWACS, because they have been watching these bad guys since they taxied out from the Red Force home drome. All this can be data-linked to the Blue force, or whoever the good guys are.

A lot of this stuff was done years ago, in the vacuum tube age. Remember the SAGE system? It was perhaps very limited by today's standards, but it worked. Visiting the online radar museum (www.radomes.org) may be in order for some, to get the historical perspective behind this last statement.

Having a human on board really doesn't guarantee much. Our neurons don't have much of a parity check in place. The recent episode in South America where innocent people were killed due to a questionable shootdown of a light aircraft is simply a recent example-there have been many others over the years.

I'm gonna knock it off right here-see you at the club.

TomH
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:41 pm

What's VP-92? I guess that's a no. Sorry. Have a look at my profile!

In the early 70's when Soviet MiG-25's used to invade Israeli air space they were confronted several times by IAF F-4's, the F-4 pilots reported that every time they tried to get close, the MiG-25 would accelerate to Mach 3 and disappear into Egypt. Now, that may be what you would call an emergency, but the Soviets had only two or three a/c based in Egypt at the time and they were forced to fly at Mach 3 quite a few times during that time period, they didn't have much time and equipment for complicate maintenance work.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:56 pm

I belive that the Y-12 probably rates as being faster then the MIG-25. But it didn't enter service unlike the Mig Aircraft. It could substain it's speeds where the Mig will suffer engine damage if it stays up there too long.

You see Y-12 photo's commonly mislabeling this aircraft as a SR-71. If you see a photo where the two chines end sharply rather then fairing smoothly into the nose it is an Y-12. There where also a pod under each of the engine nacelles to make up for the stability lost by cutting the chines back. That was needed so a radar could be placed into the nose.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Fri Jun 01, 2001 9:03 pm

Correct. YF-12 could sustain Mach 3.2 or more for extended periods, where the MiG-25 burns out the engines in a few minutes.
It was designed to counter the supersonic bomber the USSR was building back then. When that bomber did not enter service, the project was shelved.
I wish I were flying
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Sat Jun 02, 2001 3:13 am

LY744,

Sorry about the misidentification. The Israelis were working on water-injected engines for their F-4, possibly in response to these overflights. It was speed, not stealth, back then!

L-188,

Right, the YF-12 would have been far in advance of any other interceptors IF it had been built. I believe the AIM-54 Phoenix missile of the F-14 Tomcat owes its existance to the AIM-47, a missile that was under development for the YF-12.

While speaking of large interceptors, and a particularly beautiful one at that, we cannot overlook the Avro CF-105 Arrow. There would have been no need for the YF-12 if the Arrow had been deployed operationally. I know that 40 years later a great deal of heartache still exists over the potential of that super aircraft, as well as the loss to Canadian industry. I have the greatest respect for what they did manage to accomplish, and I'm still dismayed that they had to settle for the F-101B Voodoo. No comparison.
TomH


 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Sat Jun 02, 2001 4:47 pm

Got to agree with you Tomh on the Arrow. Unfortunatly the aircraft never flew (TBMK) with the intended Orenda engine. It would have definatly been a Mach 2-2.5 fighter but I don't think it would have been into the +3 range.

Either way that whole affair just reinforces my belief that the worst thing to happen to Canadian Aviation was a man named Dieffenbaker.....Or however he spelled it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Sat Jun 02, 2001 6:49 pm

Yes the ARROW is the greatest
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Sat Jun 02, 2001 10:32 pm

Yes it is pretty sad that there is no such thing as an Indiginous Canadian fighter. I will say that the failure of the Orenda is the only reason why the French where able to develop their high powered jet engines. They where originally planning to put the Orenda into the Mirage fighters but had to develop one of the great military engine's of all time when it was cancelled. The ATAR 9
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Sun Jun 03, 2001 4:57 am

I didn't know that about the potential French application of the Orenda. So the loss to Canadian industry was greater than I knew. My suspicion is that the Arrow was an ideal platform for Canadian Air Defense. A vast land, requiring a huge all weather interceptor. The Arrow was designed with all this in mind, wasn't it?
I can see Mach 2.5 as a design parameter on that bird, though I don't know the specs for sure.

I think one of the reasons the Canadian Sabres were so hot was their Orenda engines, wasn't it? I know they were a great day fighter in NATO in the late 1950s. Probably gave USAF F-100 units plenty of trouble when they mixed it up.

TomH

PS There is a website devoted to the Arrow-have you seen it?
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:32 pm

Actually I put in the wrong engine....bad me...

By Orenda one should think of the earlier Candian powerplant that powered the CF-100 and the Canadian built Sabres you mentioned.

The Arrow was originally designed around a pair of Rolls-Royce engines. When the Brits cancelled that project the decision was made to design their own engine, the Iroqouis. It was this engine that the French were interested in. I can't for the life of me remember what it was but this powerplant did pioneer a new concept in engine design but it escapes me.

The French government had real orders for that motor and I do belive that the number ordered was going to be a couple of thousand. And I don't think that number would have counted any of the large number of forgien sales that the Mirage series eventually had.

Of course the engine got cancelled with the airplane.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Lucifer
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 7:22 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Tue Jun 05, 2001 10:52 pm

Eurofighter Typhoon needs to be included in above lists
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Tue Jun 05, 2001 11:05 pm

Lucifer,

What is the top speed for the Typhoon? We are up over 1,600 MPH with the F-15 already.

TomH
 
747400sp
Posts: 3846
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:59 am

F-22A NO QUESTION! It can cruise ta super sonic speed.
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:28 am

I don't forsee piloted fighters going away anytime soon. In 50 years, the technology might be there to make is plausible. Technology wise, it might not be necessary to have a man in future aircraft but I think men will be in them for what they possess. A human brain and two eyeballs can take in more than any computer ever will. Our thought process and ability to put a plan into action is unrivaled. UCAVs will be part of the future but they will serve alongside manned platforms.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
sovietjet
Posts: 2547
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:32 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 35):
F-22A NO QUESTION! It can cruise ta super sonic speed.

Yes but if you read it isn't above M1.4-1.5 so it isn't the fastest. F-15 takes the cake but if you count Russian then the Mig-31 and Mig-25 win.

It's interesting to read this because the Mig-25s actually didnt need to replace their engines if they went M3+. Some general maintenance and inspection was required but it didnt result in an engine change. Engine changes on a Mig-25 dont take 2 hours like on a -29 so it would be a pain in the *** to do it every time not to mention awfully expensive. You guys forget how durable Soviet aircraft are and how much punishment they can take.
 
aislepathlight
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:44 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:16 am

The Mirage 2000s is close to 1300 knots, with a top speed of 1260 knots (Mach 2.2, 1452 MPH, and 2336 K/PH)

The Thuds also just fall short, with a top speed of 1283 (Mach 2.24, 1480 MPH, and 2378 K/PH)

_________________Fighters That can reach 1300 knots_________________

The Phantom II (if I converted correctly) has a max speed of 1300 knots (Mach 2.27, 1498 MPH, and 2410 K/PH)

The F-106s top speed of 1323 knots (Mach 2.31, 1525 MPH, and 2453 K/PH)

There are more, and click here to view the fastest 50 aircraft in the world.
bleepbloop
 
4holer
Posts: 2726
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:15 am

All interesting facts.
But I think that the big question is how a 5 year old thread managed to be revived?  Wink
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
aislepathlight
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:44 pm

RE: Fastest Fighter Today

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:14 pm

Wow

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 35):
F-22A NO QUESTION! It can cruise ta super sonic speed.

Sure, it has a high cruise speed, but not much else in the top end performance range.
bleepbloop

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests