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The Best-selling New Fighter

Mon Jul 02, 2001 5:09 am

What do you think will be the best-selling new fighter?
F-22, JSF, Typhoon, Rafale, Su-35/37, Gripen or else, and why?

DaV
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CX747
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Mon Jul 02, 2001 5:37 am

I think that the JSF will be the best selling fighter out of all of them. It has been produced in order to provide the USAF, USN, USMC, RAF, RNF the best capable aircraft while at the same time being highly affordable. Basically it is a "Next" Generation F-16.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Guest

RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:37 pm

Su 35 because while it has most of the capabilities of the a/c listed above it remains the cheapest of the lot...

Regards,


BBC_CCCP
RUS AF RULES!!!
 
Whistler
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Wed Jul 04, 2001 3:01 am

I think these 3 will sell the most:
Gripen
JSF
EF2000

They are overall the best and cheapest.
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Wed Jul 04, 2001 3:33 am

Who, do you think will buy the Gripen, except Sweden and probably Denmark?

There are already about 500 ordered Eurofighters, but when of the JSFs are built as much as planed, then there will be far more of them.

But no aircraft will sell as much as the Fighting Falcon.

Martin
Imprezas rule!!
 
Whistler
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:45 am

South Africa has also chosen the Gripen and it looks like Austria will too. It's combonation of performance and price will make it a winner IMO.
 
jwenting
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Thu Jul 05, 2001 9:59 pm

Austria will most likely get Gripen, yes. They do not have a lot of choice, as their entire infrastructure is designed around Swedish hardware. Changing to US models would be far more expensive (even with the aircraft the same price).

I have a feeling the European F-16 replacement (Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Denmark) may come down to a head to head political battle between JSF and Gripen. If that happens, Gripen has the better papers because it is
a) European
b) cheaper (on paper)
military considerations do not come into play in that decision, which might be for about 400 airframes (something 200 NL, 100 B, 50 N, 30 DK)
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Fri Jul 06, 2001 1:26 pm

Su-35 All the way baby. it is fast, modern, stealthy and cheap!

Russian - Ukrainian Air Force Rulez!
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Fri Jul 06, 2001 5:06 pm

Oh, one more of this Sukhoi-fans, great...

Su-35 All the way baby. it is fast, modern, stealthy and cheap! but it just crashes sometimes...
 Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

Martin
Imprezas rule!!
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 07, 2001 2:13 pm

The SU-27 series are the best fighters...
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 07, 2001 3:50 pm

again!

BTW, I like the Flankers too...

Martin
Imprezas rule!!
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 07, 2001 10:57 pm

i think it'll be the jsf. not because of quality so much, but because it's being marketed to so many current f-16 users who would most likely buy from the US again. i gotta say though, that su-35 sure is sweet. but how can you say it's stealthy? it's got the radar signature of a b-52 people! it's not stealthy at all
 
Whistler
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 07, 2001 11:57 pm

Ya, the Su-35 may be good in a dogfight, but that is no good if it gets blasted from miles away by a F-16.
 
CX747
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Tue Jul 10, 2001 8:18 am

Again, I have to say the JSF will sell the most. As Duce50boom said, it is being offered to many current F-16 operators and it also offers the most "bang" for your buck.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
fireblade
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:20 am

i think the jsf or gripen
not because they are the best but because of the political reasons the russia has no chance to sell any aircraft to any of the reach western country
and by the way my favourite is su-37 with triumf missiles it could blust any target for distance of 400km
and it is stealthy < when su-34 has a rcs of a cruise missile then how big rcs has a newer su-34>
 
jwenting
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:26 am

With the JSF likely to go the way of the A-12 and Venturestar (given the current trend in US budget decisions (iow, keep the old stuff for another decade and then see what you can get)), the fight is on between Gripen and Rafale.
Noone in the west buys Russkie planes, and Typhoon is too expensive.
I wish I were flying
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: Fireblade

Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:38 am

i'm not sure about that 400 km range of that missile you were talking about. it sounded like some pretty far out numbers since i believe the phoenix is still the longest range missile in the world, and that's got one of around 100 miles.

and i think your talking about the s-37 being stealthy, the one that's a prototype that is still in testing and probably won't be built. the su-37 looks just like an su-27 with canards and thrust vectoring nozzles. it's NOT STEALTHY. neither is the su-35. and the su-34 is not stealthy either. it's a ground attack jet with side by side seating for the pilot and nav. where's the stealth on it?

 
Spectre
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:47 am

How about a "fly off" between all the contenders. I know it's a pipe dream, but just imagine these a/c on your local ACMI range going one-on-one, now even me, a tight Yorkshireman, would pay money to see that!!!
 
GunFighter 6
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sat Jul 21, 2001 11:18 am

It will depend most on how much money a counrty has to spend. there are also some other factors involved.

e.g The Netherlands is already involved in the development of the JSF. for them not to take the JSF at the end would probably be a weird event. ofcourse everything is possible.

if we take the Typhoon, this bird will be very expensive on the market mainly because of the dilemma's it under went during development. because of these dilemma's the project has cost more then they originally hoped for. the result, a way to expensive plane.

the Gripen on the other hand is a great option for smaller countries. its cheap to build and there for affordable.

i don't think there will be one big winner. the UK and germany are bound to the Typhoon as well as the French to the RaFale.
so it think they will all do pretty well. and in my opinion they are all great planes.
 
fireblade
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RE: Fireblade

Tue Jul 24, 2001 12:13 am

the phoenix missile is past now the triumf S-500 rules
the plane don't have to luck like a F-117 or b-2 to be stealthy the su-34 has a rcs of a 2m long missile
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: Fireblade

Tue Jul 24, 2001 1:59 am

do you have any numbers to back up your 'phoenix missile is past now the triumf S-500 rules' claim? and i'm not saying a plane has to look stealthy to be stealthy, but the su-34 doesn't have stealth in anywhere near the capability that the f-117, the b-2 or the f-22 has. NOWHERE CLOSE!! it is not a stealth airplane. and if it even has a 2 meter rcs (where did you get that number by the way?), that's still more than enough to get knocked out of the sky by an amraam, or contrary to your statement.....a phoenix
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Tue Jul 24, 2001 2:48 am

This is one more of these Sukhoi-fans...
Forget it, he'll never confess any disadvantage of a Flanker.

Martin
Imprezas rule!!
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:14 am

yeah.......i'm still hoping he'll make a slip-up though  Big thumbs up
 
Guest

RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Tue Jul 24, 2001 3:30 pm

These Sukhoi fans are becoming a real problem, it seems if its not Sukhoi then it does not exist.

What ever happened to the MIG 29, Long live the MIG 29!!!!
 
redskin
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:15 pm

Havn't they (Sukhoi )fans learn't that QUANTITY is no substitue for QUALITY. I'd have a RAAF hornet before i flew one of those bloody things.. Give me an AMRAAM and i'll shoot the flanker in the face, from the side etc etc etc....... Let alone having an Eagle/ or a Tomcat/ or a F22 raptor, rambunctious, rauchious,renegade...can't spell or think of other good R words
 
fireblade
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RE:fireblade

Wed Jul 25, 2001 11:36 pm

duce50boom
if you don't believe me why don't you check triumf in these links from federation of american scientist
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/s-400.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/su-30.htm
or just try google search
martin
flankers are my passion and i think they are the best in many ways exept probably the russian avionics (india bought france) if you want oppose my oppinion give me a name of the better plane but with flyable TVC 15%horizontal and vertical angle , mach speed 2.35 8t armament ,3200km combat rangeetc for a 35millions $( if you think of a f-22 it has justa TVC concept it is slower 1.8mach it is still unarmed ,1400km combat range and it cost 130millions$
very truly yours
fireblade
P.S.maybe f-22 is stealthier
ifthe plasma stealth is fake
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: RE:fireblade

Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:01 am

do you know that the s-400 is a SAM? it's not carried by any airplane. so what are you talking about it and the flanker in the same sentence?

i'm still not impressed with the flanker family. it can do some great airshow tricks, but i'd bet on the F-15 over it anytime. as for your practically unintelligible comments comparing the f-22 to some unnamed flanker variant. all i could really understand was the max speed comparison. i've never understood why people care about it so much. first off, i seriously doubt that a flanker with anywhere near a normal combat load can get to that speed.

2nd, why would it need to go so fast? acm? when has there ever been a supersonic dogfight? i sure can't think of any. and going that fast, all your doing is using up gas. and the russians don't have too many tankers around.

maybe you should look at the FAS' page on the f-22. it sure looks alot more capable than any flanker will be
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Thu Jul 26, 2001 3:15 am

You can't convert him...

Fireblade, 'cause of the f-22:

it is slower
that doesn't matter, except in very special circumstances. And has the Flanker supercruise ability? (not rhetorically, i don't know it)

it is still unarmed
bullshit, they tested AMRAAMs and as much I know AIM-9X, too.
You have to remember that it's a totaly new airplane, it takes some time to get it armed (and to develop the TWC). The new Flankers originate from a airplane developed in the seventies as a counterpart for the F-15 and F-16. The new Flankers are just advantages of this aircraft. But the F-22 is a fundamentaly new concept, it's something special, 'cause of its extreme stealthiness and so on.

1400km range
You forget air-refueling, and the USAF has enough tankers.

it costs 130 millions
The USAF ordered about 600 F-22, probably they will finaly get less, but they get quite a lot of them, and then they have them and it doesn't matter how much it costs.

Martin
Imprezas rule!!
 
fireblade
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RE:duce

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:43 pm

duce
if you did a little research as i told you so you would find that a triumf could be carried by aircraft
once again try researching
and about comparasion i was thinking about su-37
and if you don't understand nothing exept the speed then we really don't have to discuss anything else
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: RE:duce

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:53 pm

and where did you find anything saying that the s-400 can be carried by aircraft? regarding the su-37, the plane will never be built in any large numbers, so why are you comparing it to the F-22?
 
fireblade
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:54 pm

martin
1speed
every category gives you some advantage if the speed does not matter why don't boeing make f-22 1.1mach
2.range
what about refueling over enemy teritory haw vulnerable the fighter is (i sow air refueling during the nato bombing yugoslavia you could easily destroy the 3 aircrafts with one rocket )
3.weapons
i couldn't still found none information about f-22 weapons if you have please give me a link
kind regards
fireblade
f-22 rules ( as long as russians can't effort new aircrafts)
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:10 am

weapons:

AIM-9X:
(a news release from July 2000)
http://www2.acc.af.mil/accnews/jul00/000262.html

AIM-120 AMRAAM:
(bottom of the page)
http://www.aata.net/enews/Content/00/102600.htm

Martin
Imprezas rule!!
 
fireblade
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RE: Duce-triumf

Fri Jul 27, 2001 6:41 am

duce bacause you are very leisy
http://www.makavia.8m.net/triumf.htm
check the bold part
 
fireblade
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RE: Martin

Fri Jul 27, 2001 6:45 am

thanks for the links
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Fri Jul 27, 2001 7:33 am

BTW, you can't blast an aircraft from a distance of 400km when you can't catch (or how do you say?) it with your radar, because it's stealthy.

I didn't read the entire text you linked, so correct me if i'm wrong: Isn't the S-400 just the guiding-system and the warhead of a missile? In the text it says: "it can use both new and existing types of SAMs", what means that the "S-400" isn't the entire missile, it doesn't include the engine of the missile and the fuel tank. So this range (400 km) stands for the SAMs with this S-400 add, which are too big to hang on a flanker. In the bolt text it says that this design bureau is developing a new AAM, ON THE BASIS OF THE 9M96E, which is a SAM. So they take the same guidance system, but the rest of the missile will be a new design, also smaller, and so it has less range.
Once more, I don't know if I'm correct...

Martin
Imprezas rule!!
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: Duce-triumf

Fri Jul 27, 2001 10:15 am

again fireblade. the s-400 is for a sam. since you obviously don't understand what that means, it stands for SURFACE TO AIR missile. next time read something before you spout off on something. and please learn to spell
 
Guest

RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:21 pm

The U.S buys way more fighters than any euro nation.
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Fri Jul 27, 2001 4:24 pm

and...?
Imprezas rule!!
 
fireblade
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Fri Jul 27, 2001 7:56 pm

martin
<1>stealthy doesn't mean invisible remember of a two
f-117 shut down by yugoslav army with their 30 year old SAMs and radars
<2>new flankers could carry 8t warload so you could easily put on them 2 of 200km range triumf (1.5t each)
or 2 400km triumfs (2.5t each)
http://www.makavia.8m.net/triumf.htm
 
Guest

RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:24 am

I Will Still Take An F-14 Tomcat Over All Of Them!
 
fightingfalcon
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RE: The Best-selling New Fighter

Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:49 am

"it doesn't mean invisible"
yea, but when the radar can't catch (still no better word for it...) a plane, you can't attack it with a radar-guided missile. Maybe it's possible to get them, but you can't attack it at 400km distance. And so it doesn't matter how far the missile can fly, but when you can get the plane with your radar.

Martin

P.S: Once more, what's the word to get a target with the radar?
Imprezas rule!!

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