Spectre
Topic Author
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:19 am

US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 6:10 am

Hi All
Can anybody tell me why US Forces, mainly Navy to be honest, let airshow organisers/enthusiasts down so often?
I have been going to shows in the UK & Europe for many years and it always seems to be the US aircraft that don't show due to "operational commitments".
As, here in the UK, we are the "largest aircraft carrier" in the world  Smile/happy/getting dizzy, it would be nice to see more F-14s, F-18s & especially C-2s and the like. I realise that carriers aren't always close by, however we had one off of our coast recently that promised a/c at RAF Mildenhall (a US Base) & RAF Waddington and turned up at neither.
On a happier note the aircraft that do turn up are well worth seeing, so keep 'em coming please - Dave  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 6:50 am

Spectre:

What do you mean by "here in the UK, we are the "largest aircraft carrier" in the world"?

Thanks,
Mike
 
Spectre
Topic Author
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:19 am

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:21 am

MikeN
Because of the amount of US a/c stationed here and used for Ops around the world (Libya, F111's from RAF Lakenheath etc). As you know, we are an island just off mainland Europe and therefore the equivalent of, and cheaper than a carrier in the European theatre.
This is not a criticism of US Forces, I for one wish that so many aircraft were not withdrawn, more of a tongue in cheek comment.

Best Wishes
Dave
 
Guest

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:36 am

Well, I know for a fact that the airlifters and tankers are overloaded (mission-wise) right now. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they are the ones you're speaking of. Unfortunately, the only ones stationed overseas are C-130s and KC-135s. Although, you guys now have some C-17s.  Smile

Mike
 
Spectre
Topic Author
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:19 am

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:48 am

MikeN
Airlifters & Tankers are normally not a problem, we get plenty based at/staging through Mildenhall. My main upset is the promises that are made and then broken. We were supposed to have F-14s/18s at Mildenhall & Waddington this year, but both were "no shows". This is all the more disapointing when you realise it was possibly our last chance of seeing an F-14 before they all end up in the bone-yard. As for our leased C-17s, officially they are not allowed to participate at airshows as part of the lease agreement!
As I said earlier I'm pleased to see any US participation at our shows, so lobby your congressman to keep on sending them.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Dave
 
Guest

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:56 am

....possibly our last chance of seeing an F-14 before they all end up in the bone-yard.

Really? I would think it would take at least 3-5 years to completely phase out the entire fleet. Have they started the phase-out process already?

As for our leased C-17s, officially they are not allowed to participate at airshows as part of the lease agreement!

That's news to me. I think it sux!

Mike
 
chdmcmanus
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:53 am

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 8:16 am

I didn't know that about the '17 either, but it doesn't surprise me. I guess they're afraid the British public will see how much of a whimp it is and blame the US for it. Personally I think the C-17 is the biggest g'ment screw up conspiracy since Roswell.

Regards,
ChD
"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:18 pm

ChD, the C-17 is indeed a screwup conspiracy like Rosswell. There the conspiracy was also screwed up, as there was none  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

C-17 is a nice aircraft, well suited for the job (in contrast with the FLA, which still exists only on paper 20 years after the planning started...).
A clause saying the aircraft cannot fly at airshows is probably included to limit the number of hours on the airframes to the minimum operational requirements of the customer.

Last weekend at Leeuwarden, a B-2 and F-117 did not show, despite having been semi-comitted they had been withdrawn a week or so before the show (but after the programs had been printed of course).
There was US participation, but no flying display. Static included one (1) MH-60, one (1) C-21 and two (2) F-15Es. Boeing and Lockheed-Martin were both there with mockups for their JSF contenders, Boeing were even considerate enough to paint in in Dutch AF colours for the event.

The term "World's largest aircraft carrier" for Brittain came into being in WW2 with the stationing of the 8th AF for the bombing campaign against Germany.
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Sun Jul 15, 2001 10:41 am

The airshow agreement in the RAF lease in news to us too. Who knows what the might gov't come up with these days. The US C-17's go to airshows all the time.

Now my big question.....why is everyone so damned against the C-17 these days? Well, not everyone, but there seems to be alot of anomosity toward us in the C-17 world. Did we break down some "unions" or something, or is it just because alot of what we do goes against the traditional airlift grain? Geeezz....I feel like a bastard step-child sometimes!! LOL

 
Spectre
Topic Author
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:19 am

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Tue Jul 17, 2001 3:39 am

C17load

I can't understand the animosity either...but thats the aviation world for you. I have seen a number of USAF C17 displays and have been impressed.
 
chdmcmanus
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:53 am

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:19 am

I guess if all you see is the Media propaganda and MD Hype you could be impressed, but when you work on and around them, you see through the guise. The C-17 is an adequate performer in the general airlift regime, but it's airdrop, special missions, and austere operation characteristics are woefully inadequate. To add insult to injury, the rest of AMC routinely picks up the slack, while the ugly guppy gets the credit. Makes for quite a bit of internal dissention, which is normal for a new acft, but abnormal for an acft that has been in service for 8 years.

Regards,
ChD

"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Tue Jul 17, 2001 3:54 pm

"the rest of AMC routinely picks up the slack". Well, that's what happens when there are not enough of a type around to get the job done. Thank budget cuts for that, don't blame it on inadequacy of the aircraft...
I wish I were flying
 
chdmcmanus
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:53 am

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:22 pm

Jwenting, funny how much of an expert you are, I don't remember ever seeing your name on a set of ground or flight orders.... The statement you just made is what I mean by media propaganda.

Regards,
ChD
"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:07 pm

Do I smell jealousy of someone seeing all the posh jobs going to someone else? That's what your tone sounds like.
I'm not a mil man, no, but I can read... And not being involved with any type makes me more objective as well.
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: US Forces & Air Shows!

Sun Jul 22, 2001 9:01 pm

Sounds like I opened a can of worms here! If you were to look back, all the airlifters had the same initial problems when they first came on line. Even the Herk was hated when it came into the inventory. It was said to be to big, too loud, too unconventional, etc. While the C-17 has had it's share of "growing pains" it's still a very effective airlift platform. Budget cuts, engineering problems, ineffective sub-contracting and the like have created more problems as well. Case in point, the fuel capacity. the AF initially didn't want to pay for the extra center tank. Now that reality has kicked in, the AF is realising the tank is needed, and is buying it. You have to consider too, that probably 50-55 C-17's are trying to fulfill the missions of the entire C-141 fleet right now. That's a bit unbalanced in itself!!

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