sharpnfuzzy
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:24 pm

Canadian C-17s?

Mon Aug 27, 2001 11:33 am

Everyone knows that Canada is well know for it's C-130s, and for good reason. But I think that Canada should start phasing out their old C-130s and replacing them with C-17s, as they are basically the next generation C-130. Anybody know if the Canadian Airforce is thinking of anything like this, I know that their budget is much tighter now and they've had some bad experiences with replacing aircraft in the past, the whole labrador replacement fiasco, BTW what did happen with that?.. are they getting new choppers or what?... Anyway a few Labrador incidents in the recent past had lots of people questioning their age, and I really don't wanna see that happen with the C-130s.
 
Guest

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Mon Aug 27, 2001 12:13 pm

In no way is the C-17 a replacement for the C-130. It can not outperform a C-130's STOL capabilities nor can it replace its versatility. Remember, the C-17 is not just a bigger Herk with jets instead of turboprops.

I assure you, the Herks will be around, in one form or another, for at least the next 30 years!
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Mon Aug 27, 2001 3:32 pm

yup, C-17 is a replacement for the C-141, which is larger than Canada currently needs (since they withdrew their armoured formations from Germany they have no need for instant longrange transport of large loads).
I wish I were flying
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Mon Aug 27, 2001 5:46 pm

FOLK

I read in the Obramba magazine (am from Slovenia!) 6 months ago, that RCAF is thinking about buying four c-17 instead of leasing(like they thought) . If they will buy their c-17 they will lease them to USAF, when they wont need them.
I don't know what is going to hapened now, but i think canadian will buy some globemaster.

cobra
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:37 am

The best replacement for older C-130's is the new C-130J. Another possibility is the A400M (a good copy of the An-70), or the An-70 itself (I wish!).
As for new choppers for the RCAF, their website says that the 15 new SAR Cormorants will start entering service this year, and all will be in service by the end of 2002. I've read that the RCAF ordered 35 ASW Cormorants, but that info is several years old, and there is no info about that on the RCAF website. Does anyone know what's up with that?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Sturak
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 4:59 am

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:04 pm

The RCAF currently operates 32 C-130's both the E and H models. They H model is also used in a Tanker configuration. I agree that the force needs to think about retiring its E models which date all the way back to 1962, however, as mentioned above the C-17 is not really meant as a replacement for the C-130. I agree with LY744 that the best replacement would be the new model C-130J's which would offer seriously improved performance. At this time I am not aware of any DND plans to acquire either C-130J's or C-17's. DND is said to currently be examining various options to address the Air Force's strategic airlift requirement, they will be looking at the C-17, Airbus A400M and the Antonov An-70. Another option they are considering would involve a contracted airlift arrangement for the AN-124.

You can view this RCAF news article for more information http://www.airforce.dnd.ca/airforce/eng/news/2001/02/23.htm

And about the EH-101 Cormorant/Merlin Helicopter acquisition. The 15 for SAR duty is going ahead as far as I know. Although news has been quite few and far between. The Operational Training Flight school at CFB Comox has converted from Labrador to Cormorant training at last word.
There have been no orders for ASW EH-101's as a replacement the Sea King at this time. Currently another upgrade/life extension is being proposed for the troubled 29 (remaining) bird Sea King fleet. The EH-101 ASW would make an excellent replacement but it seems we can only dream about that for now.


Regards,
Sturak
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:33 am

It's no secret that our air force wants to have C17's. I believe part of the reasoning is for longer flights, particularly to support aid and peacekeeping operations. The problem is that we wouldn't need very many aircraft, and I just don't see it as making sense. Personally I think they should just see if they could put some fuelling equipment on the 310's (possibly get a few more used ones), and buy some C130J's. I just don't see adding another type to the fleet when it can't entirely replace a lot of the Herk flying, but somehow I wouldn't be surprised to see 17's because that's what the military brass is pushing for.
 
GDB
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RE: Canadian C-17s?

Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:26 am

C-17's are very expensive, and overkill for the RCAF.
Better off with the C-130J, or the A400M.
As for the EH-101's, both ASW and SAR versions were ordered in 1992.
A change of goverment led to the cancellation of these orders in 1993, despite being ideal for the rapidly ageing aircraft they were to replace.
The requirement was split, and EH-101 again won the SAR competition.
No doubt for standardisation reasons alone, the RCN would want EH-101's for ASW too. It's still in the running, but a bit awkward for the same goverment to explain why they are buying it again, after cancelling before, with all the extra costs that has entailed in cancellation fees, inflation and the cost of maintaining the Sea Kings for an extended period. Also, the first cancellation cost Canadian companies a lot of offset work.
 
L-188
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RE: Canadian C-17s?

Wed Aug 29, 2001 4:43 pm

I could vary easily see a US sponsored leasing program for the C-17, as opposed to straight Forces Canada purchase of the C-17.

The time to really get on the ball of an aquisition of this type really was the summer before last when 1/10th of the armour of the Canadian Army was onboard a ship in the Atlantic ocean that wasn't going to dock until it recieved payment for the trip. Eventually the Navy was forced to board the ship.

The incident really played the lack of long range transport capabilty in the Canadian military. Especially considering the number of distant peacekeeping missions that it performs. If memory serves the current long range transport fleet of the Canadian military is 4 A-310 aircraft, feel free to correct that number.

If the government up there would go for it, standardizing the transport fleet on the C-130J and maybe a half dozen or a dozen C-17 transports would really help the mobility of military forces in that area. But a Herk upgrade isn't really a high priority yet, lets face it, the H models especially still have a lot of life left on them. They keep acting newer and newer you know.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:18 am

I believe the RCAF operates 5 A310's, I think they call them CC-150.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Sturak
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 4:59 am

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Thu Aug 30, 2001 4:39 am

The RCAF does operate 5 A310's (CC-150 Polaris), however L-188 is correct in that only 4 are for long range transport. The 5th aircraft is in VIP configuration and is not equiped with a side cargo door, it is used to Transport the Prime Minister and other dignitaries (such as Prince Charles on his most recent visit to Canada).

Regards,
Sturak
 
usair1489
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:22 am

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:03 am

What callsign does that VIP CC-150 get when the PM is on board?

Steve
Zinger Aviation Delta Oscar Tango Charlie Oscar Mike
 
Sturak
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 4:59 am

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:29 am

USAir1489,

To the best of my knowledge no special callsign is used when the Prime Minister is aboard. The VIP CC-150 uses the callsign "CANFORCE 001".


Sturak
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Canadian C-17s?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 5:45 am

There's an article in the newest issue of Wings magazine (a Canadian aviation magazine - excellent publication) that talks about replacing the transport fleet. It mentions that they're preparing to convert 2 of the CC-150's to tankers (hey, I guessed right!). Apart from that, they're evaluating A400M, C17, and also investigating the possibility of leasing AN124 capacity. They will also evaluate C-130J's. From what I got of the article (I only skimmed over it at the bookstore when going for a textbook) they're only talking about a partial replacement of the Herk fleet at this point, however.

The article also mentioned that they're looking closely at the advantages of having either more/smaller or fewer/bigger aircraft. Obviously from a commonality perspective, it's tough to justify having a large number of different types given the relatively small size of the Canadian military, but the brass also would like some big new airplanes, so it's going to be interesting to see.
 
fallingeese
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

AC183

Sat Sep 08, 2001 11:00 am

What months wings was that in??
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: AC183

Sat Sep 08, 2001 11:10 am

September/October... hot off the presses. Also check out the insert on WestJet in it.

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