sin777er
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:39 pm

F-14 Vs F-15

Sat Sep 29, 2001 4:06 pm

I'd go for the 15. And please don't start a McDonnell Douglas Vs. Grumman war.
 
flyhigh@tom
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:58 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sat Sep 29, 2001 4:26 pm

Should they be compared in the first place?  Confused

Both are two very different kind of aircrafts built for different purposes.
One is for the navy and the other is for the Airforce.

The F-14 is a 2 seater while the standard F-15 configuration is a single seater. Ok both look equally impressive, but as far as looks are concerned i think the F14 tom cat is the most beautiful plane the US ever built. Both are fuel guzzlers.(i do not know about the latest type of the F-15).

Ok in the end i think as far as air supermacy is concerned i will hand it over to the F-15 Eagle  Big thumbs up

But then in a war like situation away from friendly territories, it the F-14 which will see first action  Smile
 
yka
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:00 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:26 pm

I like the F-14 best. The F-14D version is my favourite due to the cool looking afterburner nozzles which are quite ugly on the F-14A.

yeah feel the power!!
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sat Sep 29, 2001 7:24 pm

Having seen both the F-14 and F-15 show their stuff at airshows, I would say the F-15 is the best. The two-seat swept-wing F-14 is heavier and less manueverable compared to the lightweight single-seat F-15.
 
Rodrigo Santos
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:56 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sun Sep 30, 2001 1:59 am

I really don´t think they can´t be compared. Can the F-14 pull up to 9 G turns? NO. Can the F-15 carry up to six Phoenix missiles?? NO. I know the Navy tried to push the F-14 to the USAF when the F-15 was in the drawing board, but I think they did the right thing in refusing it.
 
sharpnfuzzy
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:53 am

I don't think you can directly compare the F-14 to the F-15, but i still gotta go with the F-14.





How can you not love this plane?
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sun Sep 30, 2001 4:49 am

Yup, I'd go with the F-14D model. The A-model Tomcats were impressive with the AWG-9 radar capable of tracking 24 targets, and simultaneously attacking 6. With a detection range of something like 130 miles. Iran even used theirs for AWACS duties. Only drawback were those anemic PW-TF-30 engines.

The D-model Tomcats weapons systems were finally brought into the digital age with the APG-71 radar, IRST (Infrared Search and Track System), and ability to carry the LANTIRN pods, enabling them to perform strike duties. Finally they got new GE-F110 engines which improved performance across the envelope.

Just when the Tomcat's got their claws sharpened, the shirt and tie morons killed the D-model program with only about three or four squadrons receiving them (not sure about the numbers produced), effectively numbering the cats' days aboard the boat in favor of the SuperHornet.

 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:49 pm

Any F-15 version has a better chance in a dogfight than the F-14.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

The tomcat has some advantage on a long distance fight in all other categories eagle rules
Slobodan
P.S.
Please post your opinion about my proposal
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/3687/ Big grin
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Wed Oct 03, 2001 5:07 am

You can't say that one aircraft is truly better than the other. They were both designed for different reasons, although they perform the same mission in different "styles". As for an F-15 beating a F-14 in a dogfight, thats ridiculous because alot of who wins depends upon the pilot and where everyone started off in the fight. BTW I have video of 2 F-14s going head to head with 2 F-16s. 2-0 Tomcats.

"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Oct 04, 2001 5:03 pm

The F-15 rules with a kill ratio of 120 to 0 with more kills to follow soon over the skies of either Iran, Iraq, or Afganistan.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Oct 04, 2001 8:29 pm

Does Afghanistan have anything to shoot down?
You can answer here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/3752/

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Oct 11, 2001 11:19 am

Im for the F-15 because im an Air Force guy. GO AF!


ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
Rodrigo Santos
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:56 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Oct 11, 2001 12:10 pm

TEDSKY, that´s a matter of opportunity.
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Oct 11, 2001 7:36 pm

"The F-15E Strike Eagle with two 29,000lb thrust P&W F100-229s has a better chance against the MIG-29 and SU-27 in a dogfight after doing a bomb run."

tedsky - so old and still so blind... bring facts not oppinions on such matter, will ya bud?!
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Oct 11, 2001 8:27 pm

"The F-15E Strike Eagle with two 29,000lb thrust P&W F100-229s has a better chance against the MIG-29 and SU-27 in a dogfight after doing a bomb run."

What's wrong with that, MiG-29-Sniper? He was just saying that an F-15E with a fairly "clean" configuration (no bombs, external fuel tanks, 2 Sidewinders, 2 AMRAAMS) has a better chance (he didn't say it will beat them) in a dogfight against the MiG-29 or the Su-27 than the F-14! Nothing wrong with that! Are you an F-14 fan, MiG-29-Sniper?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Oct 11, 2001 11:33 pm

i can't really judge them cause im not familiar with f-14 as well as with f-15. f-15 was created on the bases of MiG-25 after it was srollen and looked through by americans in japan. but i think that taking something like a MiG-25 even with all that old BREO, they could have done a better job constructing a new plain.
SVD
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

MiG-29-Sniper

Fri Oct 12, 2001 1:18 am

I've read about that theory (F-15=MiG-25) a few years ago, and after studying the matter I was convinced that it is a load of BS. Those two have very, very, little in common. I will elaborate on that later, if you want, I don't have time right now.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:12 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Fri Oct 12, 2001 4:50 am

The F-15 IS NOT a Mig-25 copy. I read that theory as well and agree with LY744. The only area where they are similar is looks, and they dont even look THAT much alike.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Fri Oct 12, 2001 4:58 am

One of the biggest flaws of this theory is that the F-15 made its first flight in 1973, while the MiG-25 landed in Japan about a year earlier. Obviously, it took MD much more than a year to design the Eagle.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Fri Oct 12, 2001 9:15 am

If the F-14 is better than the F-15, besides the USAF, why did 3 other nations (Israel, Japan, & Saudi Arabia), purchase F-15s for their air forces? The only other customer besides the US Navy that purchased the F-14 was Iran when the Shah was in power. When the Islamic Gov't was established after the overthrow of the Shah the US Gov't blocked deliveries of additional F-14s and spare parts.
 
yka
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:00 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Fri Oct 12, 2001 1:15 pm

Because no other country operates carriers that could andle the F-14.
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sat Oct 13, 2001 6:44 am

Also, Grumman marketed the Tomcat as purely an air defense interceptor and air superiority fighter, while McDonnell Douglas touted the Eagle as an air superiority fighter with attack capablility from its inception.

Not many countries had a need to shoot down planes from 100 miles out, which the F-14 is fully capable of and the Pheonix missles were 1 million bucks a pop. Not much of a bargain !
 
Guest

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Wed Oct 17, 2001 1:39 pm

Both aircraft are great! they both have there own jobs to do. one thing for sure the navy sure messed up when they canceled the f-14 in favor of the f-18 super hornet! they better wake up and cancel the hornet and start building upgraded tomcats!
 
POSITIVE RATE
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:31 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Wed Oct 24, 2001 5:33 pm

I go for the F-15 Eagle. Very impressive thrust-weight ratio and it's max speed is Mach 2.5. It also looks like a real neat plane.
 
mjstormtrooper
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:54 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue May 13, 2008 7:09 am

The F-14 Tomcat doesn't settle for 2nd place...
 
F27Friendship
Posts: 1098
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:45 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue May 13, 2008 6:00 pm



Quoting Mjstormtrooper (Reply 25):
The F-14 Tomcat doesn't settle for 2nd place

why did you reply to a 7 year old thread?
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:46 pm

From what I remember performance and maneuverability wise...

Please tell me if I'm wrong...

The F-14 was better in the low-speed range, able to turn tighter, and able to pull overall much higher alphas. From what I remember at least that F-14 fitted with exciter vanes during tests (never in operational service) and the F-14D could with it's F-110's pull Pugachev-Cobras and the like (not sure if the F-14D had any modifications to it's glove or more relaxed stability to allow it to be done or not). At high KEAS and Mach numbers the F-14 also had an advantage in terms of maneuverability as well to it's higher swept swing-wings. To the best of my knowledge, all F-14 variants had lighter wing-loading than the F-15 (especially when you count the pancake, which adds 443 square feet of extra wing-area, which when added to the wing's 565 square-foot area effectively increase the total wing area to 1,008 square feet) however the F-14A's thrust to weight ratio was substantially lower (Truthfully, I'm not sure if the F-14B or F-14D actually had a thrust to weight ratio as good as the F-15's actually, even with it's new engines).

The F-15 was better at transonic speed, and intermediate airspeeds, and was better at sustaining high-G turns (though I think the F-14 was better at instantaneous G's, though, at least at some speeds). The plane had a higher thrust-to-weight ratio (not sure about the F-14B and F-14D, though, but definetly the F-14A), a superior climb-rate, and what appears to be a better rate of roll. It also has a higher top-speed than the F-14A. There might be a small area of the upper high-speed range where the F-15's maneuverability begins to rival or exceed that of the F-14 (this is a speculation due to the wing-body fairing set-up -- however, if true, the F-14 is generally better at supersonic speed)


Blackbird

[Edited 2008-09-09 13:46:38]
 
IntruderPC
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:08 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:55 pm

Having seen both A/C in their early days and then followed their lifespans, 2 things stick out. 1. the two A/C were built for different roles. The f-15 to be a ground based high speed air superiority fighter. The F-14 for long range fleet defense with limited assistance and therefore high ordinance loads. 2. Over the years the F-15 has gone into other configs like the F-15E Stike Eagle for ground attack, naming one. The F-14 has basically remained the same except for engine and avionics upgrades and the stronger wing roots. They were designed as they were because of the different parameters that are assigned by the project staff officers. Navy and Air Force views differ quite a bit.  Silly  Big grin
A-6's and Navy Air forever!!!
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:35 am

IntruderPC,

Oh, I'm aware there were major differences in the combat-profiles the aircraft had. I'm also aware that the USAF and USN have different views in a number of ways.

Out of curiousity, when were stronger wing-roots added to the F-14 design?


Blackbird
 
NBGSkyGod
Posts: 810
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:30 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:40 am

Just prior to VF-101 retiring their Tomcats, they did some war games with the 159th FW F-15s. When they flew out, it was 6 Eagles and 4 Tomcats. One Tomcat was "shot down" and 5 Eagles were "splashed". All of the dog-fighting was done in close quarters with nothing more than guns and AIM-9s.
Pilots are idots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
Max Q
Posts: 5634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:41 am

Imagine the capabilty of a completely revamped Tomcat, it would leave the F18 in the dust, as it was the -D model had far greater speed, payload and range capabilty than the Hornet.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
SCAT15F
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:14 am

Also something to consider; the engine the F-14 was supposed to have, the F-401-PW-400 was rated at 28,100 lbs thrust in 1973. The smaller diameter fan F-100-PW-100 was rated at 22,900 lbs thrust that same year. The current F-100 PW-232 is rated at 32,500 lbs thrust. A current F-401 would then theoretically be rated at 39,500 lbs thrust. BTW, the F-401 is the same diameter as the F-135 and F-136 engines - both rated at 43,000 lbs (45,000 lbs + for the F-136)

Early F-14A (1973) had an empty weight of 36,000 lb; plus 16,000 lb internal fuel plus 4 Sparrow, 4 sidewinder, and M-61 ammo/pilot brings TO weight to 55,000 lbs with 56,200 lb thrust (F-401's)

F-15A had empty weight of ~28,500 lb; plus 11,000 lb internal fuel and 4 sparrow, 4 sidewinder, and gun ammo/pilot brings TO weight to ~42,500 lb with 45,800 lb thrust


-Almost dead even with a slight advantage to the F-15A (but it also has 5000 lb less fuel, is fixed wing, and can't land on a carrier)
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:36 am



Quoting Flyhigh@tom (Reply 1):
but as far as looks are concerned i think the F14 tom cat is the most beautiful plane the US ever built.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ...I reckon the F16 is probably the sexiest looking machine ever produced by the USA.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kevin Scott

 
SCAT15F
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:34 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:02 am



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 33):
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ...I reckon the F16 is probably the sexiest looking machine ever produced by the USA.

I partly agree... I would go for the F-16XL.  yes 
 
Max Q
Posts: 5634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:34 am

No question, the F16 never get's 'tired on the eye' I seem to discover a new curve every time I look at it.

Beautiful machine.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
HaveBlue
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:38 pm

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 33):
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ...I reckon the F16 is probably the sexiest looking machine ever produced by the USA.

My vote

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/462/xb70inflightnr5.jpg


And I know SlamClick agrees as well.  

But I do agree the F-16 is sexy too, and I've always been a fan of the F-16XL. Would have really like to seen that one flying in person.

[Edited 2008-11-18 07:39:34]
Here Here for Severe Clear!
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:54 pm

The Starfighter is right up there as well for looking pretty hot, ...check out the Italian Air Force pilot below kissing his machine.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Engelen Frederik



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Engelen Frederik
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Engelen Frederik



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Engelen Frederik

 
LMP737
Posts: 4810
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:10 am



Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 37):
The Starfighter is right up there as well for looking pretty hot, ...check out the Italian Air Force pilot below kissing his machine.

The first time I've seen a pilot kissing his plane. However it's not uncommon for pilots, or those who worked on them, to form an attachment to an aircraft. I remember reading about a Hellcat pilot saying if he could he would marry it!
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
ferrypilot
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:20 am



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 38):
The first time I've seen a pilot kissing his plane.

Me too, ...but I'd promise to kiss that machine all over if they'd let me have a go at flying it.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 38):
However it's not uncommon for pilots, or those who worked on them, to form an attachment to an aircraft. I remember reading about a Hellcat pilot saying if he could he would marry it!

I guess he stayed alive it in when others around him fell. ...I think the Hellcat was the most successful fighter in the Pacific Theatre.
 
HybridRoninX
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 12:23 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Wed May 05, 2010 12:27 pm

I'm a USAF Fighter Crew Chief... I've always loved the F-14 being a Navy brat, and I was sad to read about them being decommissioned. But from my understanding as a maintainer is that the Tomcat was not a maintenance friendly aircraft. I've crewed Falcons, and now I'm on Eagles... I'm neither here nor there on their performance/capabilities. My concern is the ease of work in order to get them back into the air and defending those I care most for...
 
HaveBlue
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu May 06, 2010 1:23 am

Nice post HybridRoninX, nice to see an AF guy digging a Navy bird.

But more interesting than that is that it shows you 'joining' A.net as Dec, 1969 and with unspecified number of posts total.  
Here Here for Severe Clear!
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3702
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu May 06, 2010 4:18 am

F-14 anyday, its one sexy cat.
Air-Air combat from land base then the F-15 would probably win a fight (with a lot of hard work)
however, Air-Air over a longer distance away from land bases then the F-14 would possibly have an edge... even more so if the combat started out from a greater distance apart with lack of AWACS... The F-14 would win hands down... It has a much longer range radar and with its Phoenix missiles it would splash an F-15 before it even knew there was another fighter about.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
cpd
Posts: 4581
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu May 06, 2010 4:36 am

Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 33):
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ...I reckon the F16 is probably the sexiest looking machine ever produced by the USA.

The lady in black (SR-71) takes that honour, and still retains it, even in retirement.

The F16 is still something special, especially with the Thunderbirds people flying them. That's quite amazing.
 
HaveBlue
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Thu May 06, 2010 5:18 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 43):
Quoting Ferrypilot (Reply 33):
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ...I reckon the F16 is probably the sexiest looking machine ever produced by the USA.

The lady in black (SR-71) takes that honour, and still retains it, even in retirement.

The sexiest aircraft imo were the F-14, SR-71 and XB-70. SlamClick agreed with me on the latter. Civilian wise the Conorde hands down. But the 14, 70 and 71 were uniquie, gorgeous aircraft and they are my top 3 of all time favorite aircraft.
Here Here for Severe Clear!
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Fri May 07, 2010 12:16 pm

Quoting TEDSKI (Reply 10):
The F-15 rules with a kill ratio of 120 to 0 with more kills to follow soon over the skies of either Iran, Iraq, or Afganistan.

How many of these kills are real oponents, and no Cessna 172 equivalent? There is no challenge to a fighter down their, and F4 Phantoms could have done each of the jobs easily.
 
ebj1248650
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:17 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sun May 09, 2010 5:48 pm

F-14: Designed for fleet air defense; take out cruise missiles and the bombers that carry them
F-15: Air superiority fighter; go head to head with fighters and anything else that's not for us.

I'm inclined to believe it's inappropriate to compare these two, just as surely as it was inappropriate to compare the F-4 and MiG-21 during the Viet Nam conflict. In both cases, the individual airplanes were designed to meet different mission requirements. To their credit, all four airplanes met their mission objectives most admirably.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
spudh
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:00 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Sat May 15, 2010 1:18 am

God I love when these threads resurface! At last a subject I have a little depth of knowledge about.

For me this little nugget was resolved after the B/D model hit the fleets and suddenly all the USAF proponents stopped waving the flag of the F15 about as the dogfighting king and suddenly switched to the F16 instead.

Case closed.

The F14 always had an inherent aerodynamic advantage over the F15 with the added bonus of better SA thanks to the second pair of eyes in the back . The F15, until the introduction of the GE engine, had a significant T/W ratio advantage over the Tomcat. Success/failure fell onto which pilot used his advantage better. Kill ratios between the 2 were inconclusive with both camps claiming superiority in certain quoted contexts. To paraphrase an F15 pilot "We believe we have the best dogfighter in the world but we don't get low and slow against those gents in the F14's"
The Tomcat was just hamperd by an unworthy engine, the pilots were operationally prohibited from using the airframe to its full potential. As soon as the F14 had a proper fighter jet engine that closed the T/W ratio gap and released the pilot to use the extremes of the envelope the numbers game fell quickly in the F14's favour. Even the added power of the F15E couldn't close the gap.




So the USAF camp switched to championing the F16 instead

Like I said, F14 v F15 - case closed
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Mon May 17, 2010 3:03 am

Quoting spudh (Reply 47):
At last a subject I have a little depth of knowledge about.


The F14 always had an inherent aerodynamic advantage over the F15

You don't. Google Energy-Maneuverability theory
 
spudh
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:00 pm

RE: F-14 Vs F-15

Mon May 17, 2010 10:01 pm

Quoting AFHokie (Reply 48):
You don't. Google Energy-Maneuverability theory

Maybe you should google it yourself, and this time actually read what the good Col Boyds Energy-maneuverability theory is about and then read my post again.

I said the F15 had a power/weight ratio advantage over the F14A. But that is only one part of the Ps equation.
And Ps are only one (albeit important) aspect of dogfighting. And remember one little important part of that Energy-maneuverability equation is called drag (you might notice it's the only one with a negative sign in front of it), and then consider that drag is a combination of a number of elements including parasitic and induced drag. Now introduce the swing wing. Swept back at higher speeds it will have a lower aspect ratio than the F15 so parasitic drag is lower (I don't have figures for wetted area so can't compare those but I would expect the Tomcat to be higher). Introduce a few turns and with the wings sweeping forward as speed bleeds you now have a high aspect ratio wing with much less induced drag and far greater sustained turn capability. So the F15, without any lift aiding devices like slats, is using up all its extra power to maintain speed through a turn that the Tomcats aerodynamic advantage is more than making up for.
Oh dear, I said it again, F14 and aerodynamic advantage in the same sentance and within earshot of Col Boyd. And I haven't even started on AoA capabilities.
So the F14 is bleeding less speed through turns than the F15. Now back to the equation and add in the multiplier of velocity. So at a given initial speed in a straight line the F15 should (and thats a qualified should since we don't actually know how much of a drag difference there is) have more Ps than an F14A but measure it again in the middle of a couple of turns and you'll quickly see the tables turn, the F14 with less drag and carrying more speed = more Ps.
To make best use of its thrust advantage the F15 needs to keep going vertical. It will lose a sustained horizontal turning fight.

Now start the whole calc again but throw an F14B/D into the mix and start calculating your Ps when the two are starting with near the same T/W ratio and see if the laws of physics have changed enough for you to bend Mr Boyds theory in your favour. Let me check, ah no, unless that Haldron collider thing has done something I don't know about, they're still the same.

All this a litttle moot anyway as the F15's have long ago adapted their tactics to get the best from what always was a superlative fighter and to not get drawn into the darker areas of their ACE charts as evidenced by their performance against the even better handling Mig 29's. The Tomcat community just like to point to the fact that they probably forced them into that realisation!


And it has an inherent aerodynamic advantage over the F15

[Edited 2010-05-17 15:24:37]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests