ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Mon Oct 01, 2001 10:38 pm

Is the IAF a good airforce?
I am Israeli so I can't really say that they are the best because it's my "home team"

What do non-Israelis think of the IAF?
 
sin777er
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:39 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Mon Oct 01, 2001 10:48 pm

I think it's a very good AF, 4th after The US, Russia, and China. With F-15s and F-16s. But the US was mad at the IAF awhile ago because it Helped China?
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 02, 2001 12:23 am

Correct, it was either the Piton 3 or Piton 4 that Israel to China. America has told Israel not to sell to China any missles.
 
Spectre
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:19 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:13 am

I think that their history speaks for its self. However what was the ability of the opposition?
I recntly saw a display by an IAF F-15 and it was awesome  Big thumbs up
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:16 am

It was p 4.
I think IAF is a very good af i would like a page of it and it's fighters here in airliners if you're interested check my proposal
http://www.airliners.net/discussion/military/read.main/3687/
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

I'm Sorry Misswrote The Link

Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:20 am

 
Guest

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sun Oct 07, 2001 12:30 pm

IAF pilots are the best trained in the world.
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sun Oct 07, 2001 1:54 pm

Ehh.. I wouldn't rate it fourth....

In my opinion, their air force is second only to those of the United States and United Kingdom. Great organization.
 
hn
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2001 2:07 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sun Oct 07, 2001 4:55 pm

IAF is 4th AFTER US,UK,and Finland.

DO NOT say that IAF pilots are the best trained in the world, because that is not true.
 
Soren-a
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 10:13 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:07 pm

It might be true that the IAF pilots are not the best trained in the world, but they are some of the most combat experienced when it comes to jet-fighters.
They have proven themself many times in combat, both during the many wars and during single raides, like the attack on the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981 (if i remember correct).
According to an issue of Air Force Monthly a year or so ago, the IAF flew air-to-air traning missions against the US Navy. There is no official statment to the "kill-ratio", but IAF sources said it was something like 20:1 (can't remember the exact number) in favor of the IAF. The year after when the excise was held again, they flew in mix formations........

Regrads
Søren Augustesen
 
Spectre
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:19 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Mon Oct 08, 2001 5:04 am

There is nothing like combat to give a pilot the edge he/she requires. It doesn't matter how well you train, until you use that training for real, it is all theoretical.
Don't forget, UK, US & other European airforces have now got some combat experience.

Regards
Dave
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:18 pm

I would just like to say that the IAF has people at the "Top Gun" in the US.
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
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RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 1:06 am

from experience i must say the IAF is one of the best in the world , they have to be. they have some of the best equipment and have an outstanding training program, and get alot of actual combat time.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
sterne82
Posts: 394
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RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 3:38 am

Hi all,

Which kind of equipment do they use?

I knew, they used F-15/16 but what about others airplanes?

Cheers,

Benjamin
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:12 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:15 am

The IAF is probably the second best air force in the world. They have some of the best trained pilots in the world and some of the best equipment in the world. They have proven themselves in real combat many times, and probably will again.
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:12 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:29 am

For Fighters the IAF uses a F-15A/B/C/D/Es, upgraded F-42000s (I am not sure if they still have non upgraded F-4Es), and a huge amount of F-16s. I think they might still have Kafirs (similar to Mirage) and A-4s in reserve.
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
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RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 4:37 am

HN, no offense but Finland doesn't come close it Israel. You guys have a pretty small force with a few F/A-18s. Finland is more on the scale of Canada, Australia, and Belgium.

As for Russia and China, China has a huge military. They have many fighters but most of them are old Mig-21 and Mig-19 type planes, they only have a small amount of new fighters. Their training isn't all that good either (look at Wang Wei Big grin).

Russia has some new prototypes but no money to buy anything. The planes they already have are falling apart because of money, same goes for their support facilities, bases etc. They havent recieved a new fighter in 7 years. Their pilots are underpaid and undertrained, most russian pilots get like 15-20 hours of flight a year (vs 150-200 in most Nato airforces). The RuAF is derelict.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 5:03 am

The IAF operates:
- F-15A/B/C/D's (50-70)
- F-15I's (25)
- F-16A/B Block 10/15 (125 originally purchased/received rom the US, some have crashed over the years)
- F-16C/D Block 30/40 (Block 30: 72 purchased, 48 F-16C's, 24 F-16D's, Block 40: 60 Purchased)
- F-4E/RF-4E (Approximately 150 originally purchased/received from the US, approximately 50 remain in service today, all upgraded to the F-4-2000 version by the IAI)
- (T)A-4H/N/E/F(J) (Approximately 200 originally purchased, at least 50 remain in service today, to be replaced soon)

Other a/c:
- Boeing 707-100/300 (10-15, tankers, cargo, electronic surveillance)
- C-130E/H (20-25, cargo, tankers)
- UH-60A/L (25)
- AH-64A/D (45)
- CH-53 (approximately 50-60)
- AH-1 (approximately 50)
- Bell 212 (approximately 50)
- AS365 (approximately 25)
- Bell 206 (approximately 25)

That covers most of the IAF's fleet.

The Kfir's were retired in the early 90's, probably 1993.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Whistler
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RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 5:17 am

Oops, I forgot that the F-15E is the F-15I in Israel  Smile. Thanks for the list LY744.
 
LY744
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RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 6:14 am

You're very welcome, Whistler!

BTW, IAF F-15A/B/C/D's and UH-60A/L's are in the middle of modernization programs. All of the IAF's CH-53's should have been updated to the CH-53-2000 version by now.

I'm not sure what Whistler meant when saying that "the F-15E is the F-15I in Israel", so, just in case, I would like to point out that although the F-15I is based on the F-15E, it is quite an improved a/c. It has more powerful engines, and Israeli-made avionics, among other things.

Also, if anyone is wondering, the rest of the IAF's fleet consists of light a/c, maritime patrol a/c, and the armed version of the MD500 Defender (plus a whole bunch of UAV's).

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Whistler
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RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 6:23 am

Didn't Israel also just buy a bunch of F-16Is too?
 
LY744
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RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 6:50 am

Yep. The IAF ordered 102 (50 originally, 52 options were officially excercised in early September) F-16I's. Those a/c are based on the F-16D Block 52 (F100-PW-229 engines, just like the ones on the F-15I), but they share some features with the Block 60, the most obvious one are the conformal fuel tanks. Those a/c will also be equipped with unique Israeli avionics. The first a/c will be delivered next year. Deliveries will continue until the middle of 2006. Those a/c will replace the A-4's that are used for operational purposes (the A-4's that are used in the IAF's flight school would be replaced by a different a/c, probably a jet trainer like the Mb 339 or the BAe Hawk. Currently, the IAF's A-4's are also used for post-graduation fighter pilot training programs, the IAF's F-16A/B's are in the process of taking over those duties), and make up for the 25 or so F-4E's that were recently retired. The IAF's F-4-2000's are not supposed to leave service just yet, so they are very unlikely to be replaced by F-16's from this deal. After all the upgrades they went through, they can still fly for over a decade. Those F-4's are still very useful as ground attack a/c (especially as launch platforms for guided ammunition, stand-off weapons, and anti-radar weapons), reconaissance a/c, and for electronic warfare.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 09, 2001 9:29 am

For those of you who haven't had the privelage to meet him, this is LY774. He probably knows more about the IAF than anyone on a.net
 
fireblade
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LY772

Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:38 pm

You're right about Alex, Ben.He really know so much that's why he's my favourite respected member.
Go Go LY744
Rest of you stay cool  Smokin cool
Slobodan
 
LY744
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RE: LY772, Fireblade

Tue Oct 09, 2001 8:27 pm

Thanks, guys! You didn't have to do that. Now I'm blushing... Embarrassment

 Big thumbs up

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
AFC_Ajax00
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 5:33 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Thu Oct 11, 2001 4:12 am

I think the Isreali AF is one of the most professional and highly trained air forces in the world, look at their combat record, and air to air kills.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:34 am

I'd rate them second behind the USAF...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 1:55 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:46 am

I would not mess the the IAF!

Six-Day War 1967:Fought against 4 air forces simultaneously.Destoryed over 400 enemy planes in one day plus complete air superioity in 3 hours.

Yom Kippur War 1973:Took out the Syrian Air Force HQ is Damascus and shot down over 450 enemy planes.

Iraqi Nuclear Plant 1981:The only attack in history ona nuclear plant.Thwarted Iraqi nuclear plans.

Lebenon War 1982:Shot down over 100 Syrian planes without a single loss.Destroyed virtually all of Syria's air defences including 19 SAM sites.
 
LY744
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G-KIRAN

Tue Oct 16, 2001 5:06 am

Actually, the IAF shot down 89 (44 by F-15A/B/C/D's, 44 by F-16A/B's, 1 by an F-4E) Syrian a/c during the 1982 war, but many more in the years prior and after the war.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Cyril B
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:03 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Wed Oct 17, 2001 1:31 am

Note that during the Six-Day war and Kippur war, the IAF showed the true potential of french fighters like MD450 "Ouragan" or Mirage III (which shot down an impressive number of MIG-21).

According to me, the rankings are:
1- USA
2- China
3- IAF
- FAF (french air force, who showed an impressive effectiveness during the Gulf War)
- RAF
4- Russia (excellent planes, but a terrible lack of money)
5- Luftwaffe
 
Guest

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 5:32 am

Does Israel still use Mirage Super Mysteres, why did I think they still do?

Hows the Egyptian air force?

Also, LY772, you introduced your "friend" as LY774, when he is really LY744. Freak!

 Laugh out loud
TWAmerican
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 5:40 am

Yes, I tend to do that. Sorry LY744. Although I wouldn't mind seeing a Boeing 747-700.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 6:00 am

Israel sold the last of its Mirage III and Neshers (Mirage 5, more or less) in the late 70's/very early 80's to Argentina. Now they are buying a few back, because they have some historic value. Those will be put in the IAF's museum.
The Super Myster is a different a/c. The first Super Mysters arrived in Israel in the late 50's, they were the IAF's first true super-sonic a/c. 25 of them were heavily modified in the late 60's by the IAI, which included replacing their engines with the same kind as used in the A-4 (J57?). Ironically, the modification turned those a/c into subsonic, and that modification was the only thing that allowed them to stay in service for several more years. They were used as ground-attack a/c in the 1973 war. Shortly after the war, they were replaced with F-4E's.

LY772: LY774 would be a 777-400, rather than a 747-700. Yeah, I know, I'm spoiling your fun again, sorry...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 5:16 pm

Thanks!

LY772, slow it down next time. thanks LY744.
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 9:17 pm

Hey!!! It was like 11 PM for me when I wrote that so give me a freakin' break! Throw me a freakin' bone. And thanx for spoiling my fun and not respecting me, LY744
 
patches
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 5:56 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:33 am

From everything that I have read about the IAF They only rate behind the US and not by much. They have great equipment and they know how to use it. Anybody remember the fierce air battle they had about 20 years ago and there kill ratio was like 90 plus to 0.
 
Guest

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sat Oct 20, 2001 11:49 am

Your talking about the Lebanon war!
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

Patches

Sat Oct 20, 2001 10:59 pm

Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

LY772

Mon Oct 22, 2001 12:56 am

Hey Ben[si]
you sound very contradictory once you said that ly744 is a great second ....
IS your name added in somebody else respected users list is so importhing?
Aren't all the members who already post their res[and there is a plenty of them] to your topics show respect to you?
You know that you're good member your threads with so much replies show that not some stupid list.
Slobodan
P.S.
i already added your name in my list if that mean something to you also
i don't need to see my name in your list just reply to my threads and i know that you respect me.
Friends???????????
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 1:11 am

21 post ok i'm buck
 
aztec01
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 2:30 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:43 am

One on one? Hands down the IAF is far and away the best.
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sat Oct 27, 2001 11:46 am

In terms of sheer size and power, of course the US is #1. But the IAF is more potent, resourceful and effective when considering its size than any in the world. It can easily match the combined air forces of all its adversaries.

In my opinion, it's second to none. LY772 - you should be proud of your homeland's air force.

Cheers,
Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
airafrique
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 4:25 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sat Oct 27, 2001 1:56 pm

IAF have the best pilotes in the world.
They are the best because of all the hostiles countries around them.

Can someone confirm for me that they have some russian plane in their Air force ?

 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:43 pm

Airafrique: I am pretty sure they don't, becasue Russia sells planes to Ara countries, and they would be pretty mad if they found out that they are also selling to Israel. Anyways, you should be directing your question to LY744 or scroll up.
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

LY744

Sat Oct 27, 2001 9:37 pm

To which arab country ?
I mean for the last decade.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sat Oct 27, 2001 11:53 pm

Airafrique:

No, currently the IAF doesn't operate any Russian-made a/c. Over the years, they had some Russian a/c from the neighbouring Arab countries land in Israel (some by mistake, others were escaping the regims in their own countries, some were paid to deliver state-of-the-art technology so it could be examined by Western experts). In 1966, for example, Israeli intelligence agents convinced an Iraqi AF pilot to deliver his MiG-21 to Israel (for a sum of money, and an opportunity to live in Israel, or leave to any other country of his choice). At the time, there weren't much info known about the a/c in the west, and it was fairly important to Israel to get to know the a/c, as their neighbours have been using MiG-21's for a few years by that time (a Syrian MiG-21 was shot down by an IAF Mirage III in 1966, that was the first time a MiG-21 was shot down in combat anywhere in the world). At the time, the Egyptians were using their own MiG-21's for reconaissance missions over Israel. For some reason, Israeli fighters could never reach those spy planes in time to shoot them down. So, for a couple of months, the ex-Iraqi MiG-21 was actually on the IAF's operational roster! It was put on stand-by, ready to scramble to the air to try and shot down the Egyptian spy planes. The a/c was modified so it could carry Israeli-made AA missiles. It was to be flown by the Israeli test-pilots who examined the a/c. But the Egyptians stopped their high-speed flights over Israel just in time, and the a/c was never used operationally. Soon after, it was given over to the US, where it was also examined carefuly, and may have been used to train American fighter pilots. The a/c was given back to Israel a few years later. Now it can be seen in the IAF's museum (not in flying condition). It has a very distinctive silver and red livery.

Another example: In the late 80's, a Syrian pilot decided to leave his home country, and take a MiG-23 with him. The a/c was never intended to be used operationally. It was also examined by Israeli pilots and engineers, as well as American ones. It can also be found in the IAF museum (not in flying condition).

IAF MiG-23:


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
airafrique
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2000 4:25 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:32 pm

Thank you LY744 for the precision.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:43 am

The biggest mistake IAF made was the attack on Beirut
airport 1968. Operational it was a success but they lost
the Mirage supply after that.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Wed Nov 07, 2001 8:48 am

Actually, Israel lost French support as a result of the 1967 ("Six day") war. Turned out pretty well, though.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of The Israeli Air Force?

Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:40 am

Didn't I start this topic last year? Oh, my bad.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

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