duke
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 1999 9:52 pm

What's Cool In Russia?

Mon Oct 01, 2001 11:19 pm

What do y'all think of the Russian military industry? They seem to be going strong.
How would the Mig-29, the Su Fitter and that new Sukhoi canard-winged thing (what's
the name?) compare with the quality of Western aircraft?
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Tue Oct 02, 2001 2:25 am

In Russia, we have a number of great a/c that would definetely outperform a lot of western a/c (of course that would mainly depend on the pilot).
The Sukhoi you are talking about is S-37 or Su-47 Berkut. It is a fifth generation fighter with swept-forward wings, which allows to improve the manouvreability by 1/3. In fact this plane can stand still in the air with nose up. I've seen it myself.
The most manouverbale fighter plane on the planet is also Russian. It is a Su-37 with thrust-vectoring nozzles.
Of course the avionics and all these computers are not like on all these western a/c where everything is so computerized - you can probably write e-mails from the plane...  Smile but it is still good. Apart from the Su-27 family and Mig-29 we have interceptors such as MiG-31 which has a speed of up to Mach 3.4. Four MiG-31's can cover an area of up to 400km - that way you do not need AWACS.  Smile


Actaually there is a lot ...
www.aeronautics.ru


All the best!

MiG
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:06 am

Russian has the greatest ,from mechanical piont of view,fighters but with poor avionics and even poorer defense budget .
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Duke

Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:39 am

 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: Duke

Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:32 pm

Fireblade, we are not talking about budget, but the a/c and really avionics is not that bad. You are just used to screens in western a/c.

All the best!
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

MIG31

Wed Oct 03, 2001 3:01 am

Well i have little question about you:
Why did India bought sextant[french]avionics for their su-30?
And why are all modern rus a/c s equiped with french or israilian avionics [at least in the air shows] ?
Why don't they show russian one?
MIG31 Russian avionics isn't that bed but it's not elite one and if you buy one elite fighter you must have an elite avionics else macedonian keys will happened.
Our Hinds killed 4 our soldiers because our goverment didn't want to spend few more money on israilian aor french avionics.
Kind regards
Slobodan
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: MIG31

Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:48 am

Hey, I'm not saying it the best! :P
We DO have good avionics but due to the economic conitions and a lot of many other factors it would turn out to be way too expesive (even more expensive then french and other) to equip all fighters with Russian MODERN avionics. Then again, the one which is used now is pretty good. Take for example the radar on Mig-31 can. which can track up to 11 and lock on 2 or more (depends on models - mine is only2) targets at the same time.  Smile
I have no clue why India bought french avionics. Probably for the name and reputation, which is better. Like, if you believe in the superiority of the french equipment why did not you buy the french planes but the Russian ones?

All the best!



 
777kicksass
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 9:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:54 am

Dials are apparently easier to read in the high G world of high manouvreabilty planes!
 
duke
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:03 am

Thank you for the sites. The debate about the avionics seems to be a
typical case of either type having its pros and cons, and you having to
weigh your options.
 
Wasilenko
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2000 4:56 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Wed Oct 03, 2001 3:18 pm

The reason why the whole planet does not like russian avionics is because they are designed for russian pilots and measure everything using the "metric system".
 
yka
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:00 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Wed Oct 03, 2001 3:40 pm

You could be right Wasilenko, its a shame that the metric system, which is used over most of the world is not preffered when it comes to avionics. However I can see the reason for it, since feet are are smaller they are also more percise, and you gotta admit 39000' sounds better than 12000m.

I still wonder how a MIG-29 or SU-27 would do against an F-15, too bad the two types never engagued in at least play combat.
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Wed Oct 03, 2001 7:50 pm

MIg31
I know a lot about mig-31 zaslon radar also india bought russian made radars i think zhuck but not sure about it, i was talking about avionics [cockpit,communications and stuffs like that]don't mix those things.
And i think that you missunderstood me , i don't like french planes [maybe rafale isn't so bad] but russian especially flankers family.
Wasilenko
Maybe thre's something about but real reason is that russian doesn't have fast CPUs[processors] and communication stuffs .Don't take it like an offense but russian make no fast CPUs and this is a computer world now.France is more advanced at that field also they could buy ibms' RISKs .makes 7 time faster than pentium with same clock measure all the servers are make with it
Yours
Slobodan
 
flyhigh@tom
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:58 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:06 pm

What's cool in Russia?

I think all the planes are cool there(flankers, Superflankers, MiG29s,31s)  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

What's not so cool in Russia?

1. The manufacturing companies running on a tight budjet line (unlike their western counterparts).

2. As such the economic state of Russia(and hence its direct effect on maintaining the existing fleet of planes or develpoing new ones)

I guess that we just have to hand it out to the russians for turning out such wonderful planes despite all the odds they face  Big thumbs up

Talk about manouverabilty and immediately it is the sukhois that come to mind. Well the avionics are not as good as their western counterparts but then you will have to understand that just building such planes in itself is a very big achievement.

Do the Russians have advanced simulators etc for training before the actual plane takes to the air?

Cheers,
Thomas.
 
SuperHornet
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 6:29 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Thu Oct 04, 2001 1:34 am

Well su-33 is the coolest thing that happened to russia
:D
Watch the ball
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

YKA

Thu Oct 04, 2001 2:29 am

YKA, Su-27 had a mock fight with F-15 and turned out winner. It happened at Langley or something... airbase in US - I read about it.


All the best!
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 12:59 am

to fireblade! -> your quote:Well i have little question about you:
Why did India bought sextant[french]avionics for their su-30?
And why are all modern rus a/c s equiped with french or israilian avionics [at least in the air shows] ?
Why don't they show russian one?
MIG31 Russian avionics isn't that bed but it's not elite one and if you buy one elite fighter you must have an elite avionics else macedonian keys will happened.
Our Hinds killed 4 our soldiers because our goverment didn't want to spend few more money on israilian aor french avionics
-> hey smarty, why do americans buy french/russian/... BREO? because of clobalization. if you think rusaf cant afford new inneraircraft technology by brain structure, you are very wrong! only the creens and "outshowing" parts of BREO is shown, but inside, such as RLS is all russian such as FAR - new age lockators, russian! look, im sorry kid, but we still put our engines on our aircrafts, we still put our gears on it, and we still put our BREO on, if you consider screens and buttons a highly edvanced technology that rus cant afford, once again you're wrong. it all is done for outlook, and besides Su-30mki - m - means modernized; k - comerce; and i - means india; there is also Su-30mkk - k standing for china. so it's always up to requester hwich BREO to have on the aircraft - out job is to meet their requests. tschuss
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 1:02 am

to MiG-31; I.T. - 4 migs can cover area of 900km2 not one 400. and that as well goes to fireblade - mig-31 is the world wide agreed best fighter intersepter today, well guess who made the inner thech for it, we did!
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 1:08 am

to YKA!!! ->I still wonder how a MIG-29 or SU-27 would do against an F-15, too bad the two types never engagued in at least play combat

-> oh man, you're sooo wrong here!!! su-27 and f-15 did ingage in a sim-fight!!! well, i hope you can guess who won that one!!! (answer is Su-27) and the reason why MiG-29 wouldnt ingage with F-15 is because it is a different fighter weight. MiG-29 light fighter, F-15 heavy fighter - so as Su-27. by the way, Su-27 excided F-15 by maneurobility by ~15 percent, by avounics maintainens, 30 percent. and Su's avionics were hell way better then than f-15's !!!
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Mig-29 Sniper

Fri Oct 05, 2001 4:35 am

mig-31 is good only for one thing speed.
And avionics is not only displays but CPUs also and Mr witheld sniper tell a name of one russian CPU.
 
Spectre
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:19 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 7:48 am

I believe that German Mig 29's mix it up on a regular basis on the North Sea ACMI range and have not come off too well, even against the BAe Hawk.
I would love to see the results of SU 27 / F-15 fight, but I still think the advantage has more to do with tactics and pilots than with aircraft types.
What do you guys think..is it the aircraft, tactics or pilots or a mixture of some or all??

Regards
Dave
 
yka
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:00 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 10:53 am

I don't know if everybody realises this but the actual speed of the F-15 processor is about the same as of the old 486 33/66mhz processors used in early computers.

So considering the Mig-29/Su-27 first flew about 4-5 years after the F-15A I would assume that the capability of avionics would be around the same, speed wise anyway. What migh seperate the two is the offencive potential of Russian missles, which may not be as percise as Sidewinders or Sparrows.

Air frame wise, by the looks of it, both the 27/29 appear to be just as aerodynamicly advanced as the F-15....though again I belive the soviet engines could never equal fuel efficency of their Western counterparts.
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 5:22 pm

FIREBLADE - > mig-31 is good only for one thing speed.
And avionics is not only displays but CPUs also and Mr witheld sniper tell a name of one russian CPU

well, there is the complete bullshit!

MiG-35 - day-night fighter-intersepter, capable of a fightlead against all know aircrafts, including low-flying and undetectable by others targets such as winged-rockets and helichopters. double-sitted aircraft with normal wing body, is made of 50% of stainless steal, 16% of titanium, 33% is aluminium, 1% - others. desighned to be used as a team leader among mig-23/25/29; su-15/27. RLS-"Zaslon" with so called FAR extreme power. it's radars catch flying objects in range of 200km - high/low situated. it's RLS allows to maintain the aim ingage of 10 at one time and fire upon 4 with single shot. low vizibility provided by a heat-pelenger that allows to seek-attack aims while being invizible to enemy radars. navigation equpment includes radionavigating systems "Tropic"/"Loran" - accuracy of aim detects at 2000km!!! and "Marshrut"/"Omega" - accuracy of coordinates of flight plan as far as 2000-10000km. in-air-fuel reload. in 1992 there were 200 mashines on russia's PRO, 4 were sold to china, some experienced modification, so now called MiG-31M - has more advanced RLS, caries more air to air missales including most recent russian invention R-77 - long distance missale with infro-red aiming head.
speeds: m-2.3 - cruising speed; m-2.82 (3000km/h) - top speed; 1500km/h low-fly speed. practical ceiling is 20600m above the sea level. 4 MiGs control the area of 900km using inner communication network, staying invizible for enemies radars and PRO.

my best regards. next time you wanna say something about MiG's only advantage is speed, read this, and find a plane with similar characteristics on usaf or any other including rusaf, then we'll talk.
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Sniper

Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:18 pm

Mr.Witheld Sniper
What the hell are you talking for ?
Who ever mentioned mig-35 that thing doesnot exist.
Mig-35 was mapo migs' competitor for LFI and the one you're talking for is probably mig-1.42 OR 1.44 .
So my posts were about mig-31 foxhound .Great speed ,great radar eveything else is BS.
YKA
Eagles has ibms' RISK system so that practically means speed of processor Times 7
Spectre
There was a dogfight between su-27 and f-15 in a play fuight [i'll post the link when i find it] and su-27 easily won it.
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Russian Avionics

Fri Oct 05, 2001 7:22 pm

Another thing compare the cocpits of US and russian helicopters
http://www.russian.ee/star/vertigo/cockpits/us.html
http://www.russian.ee/star/vertigo/cockpits/index.html
Don't you see a big differnce between them.For me rissians' cocpits lucks like a sf movie filmed in 1923 .
And Ka-52 cocpit is with french avionics.
Slobodan  Yeah sure
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 8:40 pm

YKA:

The AA-11 Archer is widely considered to be better than the AIM-9 Sidewinder, especially when its used in combination with HMS.
The Sparrow is an old design (originates in the 1950's), that suffered many difficulties throughout its career, and its duties are now being widely performed by the more advanced and succesful AIM-120 AMRAAM.
The AA-10 is the best compareable Russian missile.

The MiG-29 and Su-27's aerodynamic design is very advanced, the Su-27 is very manouverable, it may very well be more agile than the F-16.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 05, 2001 9:08 pm

to FIREBLADE - sorry dude, i ment to say MiG-31, and all info afterwards is all about it. there is no MiG-35, you're right, my mistake.
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Sat Oct 06, 2001 2:05 am

Sniper
Nice numbers but post something to make me believe it they are true .I'm very interested about 4 a/c cover 800km area.
and about MIg-35 check this link:
http://www.aviation.ru/MiG/35/MiG-35d.jpg
And my favourite mig  Wow! never enter  Sad service not even prototype  Crying
http://www.aviation.ru/MiG/MiG-I-2000.jpg
Stay cool  Smokin cool
Slobodan Blaseski
P.S.
Please post your opinion about my proposal
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/3687/
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

I-2000

Sat Oct 06, 2001 2:15 am

Another I-2000 jpg
http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/lfi002.jpg
i just couldn't handle it
Slobodan
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Sat Oct 06, 2001 2:31 am

sure man sure - go to www.airwar.ru!!!
later man got to run!!
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Sniper

Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:36 am

Yes there some cool pics i like up view of s-37[else i don't like it estetically] and pics of su-37
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Sniper

Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:45 am

And in future please post your webs as links it's easy.Check read how to include links ,posts and smilies link.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/help.main?open=new
And for some other cool pics for you check my topic f-26 stalma.It's not russian but it's luck great[not as i-2000 but still great] and performance are interesthing.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/4217Check this photo
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f26/stav3.html
Slobodan
P.S.
I thought that you're an unpolite son of a beach but now i think you're OK man  Smokin cool
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:23 am

it's got a desent desighn, but im not sure about avoinics. keep in your head that longrange radars is good, but what's the reason of having such advanced radars if your missale cant reach the target untill way closer? if it can, than there will be a defenite loss of meurability of the plane, low fuel capacities, and it just drugs it for much more, due to heavy rockets.....
Dee
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Who Are You Talking For I-2000 Or Stalma

Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:46 am

Please be specific
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:51 am

umm, refer to your topic, we'll discuss it there, ok?!
Dee
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 12, 2001 5:56 pm

So, is that it? is all we have is a MiG-29, Su-27, and a MiG-31??? u guys forget about great plains that still have no anologies in the west! which ones? huh! how about Su-24? just resently a few of those 'opened' an american carier!!! americans say that they, of course, were ready, and saw our Sus takind off at their bases, and traking them all the way to the carier... yeah, yeah - sure u have! tell me why did u let such a potential freat to your boards, and why our pilots say there was a panic on that ship? they took some cool pictures and sent them to USAF later. americans rose their f-14 to kick our squad,,, buuut - upsy, another squat of Su-27, which americans werent awair about either, cut them right there... yep - they almost got in a fight. but it didnot happen. we saw that we can open their carier up before its plains take off, and we left...
another good plain - T-4!!! old? naturaly! but yet the fastest plain ever built!!! its avionics also dont have anologies in the west. --- this is just for those of u hwo say our avionics suck!!!
take care ya all!!!  Smile
Dee
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:57 pm

Hello Gentlemen,

As a matter of fact Mig-29 Snipe is right. That carrier incident did not get a lot of public attention maybe because this time the USAF and US in general was not superior... :P (no offense, ok?)

All the best!
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 12, 2001 8:22 pm

The USAF???!!! The USAF has no a/c carriers. That's probably why this "attack" didn't get much publicity (that or because it was limited to the website of some teenage Russian patriot).

So, the SU-24 has no analogies in the west? How about the F-111?


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:19 am

AND?
 
transswede
Posts: 969
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:30 am

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Sun Oct 14, 2001 11:18 am

This carrier incident story is most certainly real:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/russia001207.html

Here's a quoted section:
The Russian military bragged to news media in Moscow last month that they had startled the Kitty Hawk by breaking through the ship’s defenses, but a week ago, Bacon told reporters the Russian planes stayed a “suitable distance away” from the Kitty Hawk.

Today, he changed his earlier statements,“On Oct. 17, they were actually quite close, and I have to admit that I misspoke about this last time based on misinformation,” Bacon said. “They did fly very close to the carrier — within several hundred feet.”"

 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:17 pm

Only su-27 ,mig-29 & mig-31.Ha
And what about su-25/39 it could beat a-10 whenever it want .
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:25 am

Su-24 dived up from the front left side of the carrier, scared the shit out of the crew, made 2 runs around it and the pilots took pictures that clearly show the panic on the ship. after su-24 went on the fucking third run, ONLY by that time did americans rise their fighters!!! and upsy-dabsy - here comes a squad of su-27s - holy shit!!! - said the captain - war is starting? - no man, sorry, just practicing taking off and landing!!!  Smile
Dee
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:55 am

Well, with the exception of some unecesary profanity you are correct. Those photos clearly show panic on the deck of the carrier... :P

All the best!
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Mon Oct 15, 2001 11:53 pm

The us fleet must be very sleepy when a plane like su-24 did that.
Imagine if they were strike flankers.
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:54 am

I guess that would be their normal condition :P

All the best!
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Tue Oct 16, 2001 6:38 pm

you realy underastimate Su-24. like i said - there are no annologies of this plains BREO!!! it could have destroyed that ship from far longer disstance than it got to it!!!

another accident with Russia-America trainings: wanna hear it? i think i mentioned that before...
on Sep. 11th, this year (all my simpathy to American tragidy on that day). however, there was an incedent b-n a MiG-31 and some American spy plain...
a spy flies along, flies and flies. guys are drinking beer and all, as usual... one looks infront. and right there infront of his own eyes, from nowhere a MiG jumps out, flyes 15m above the spy on full forsage!!! the spy crew flies out of their sits, hit the upper control panel with their heads, spill the beer -what the fuck, right?!- my own beer!!!- land back in their sits and look for the MiG. 2 seconds later the rocket lock signal flashes. without any speech, spy turns 180 and starts back home. MiG turns 180 and flies back home as well...
from this little tale, we can conclude - dont fly where MiG-31 flies!!!
or we can conclude...>
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:24 pm

OK, let me get this straight, the MiG-31 flew over the "spy plane" (What kind of a/c, dude? U-2? ???) while flying in the opposite direction, and 2 seconds later it locked on the "spy plane"? Are you saying the MiG made a 180 degrees turn in 2 seconds?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Wed Oct 17, 2001 10:28 pm

yeah right, in 2 seconds... aga!
while those guys were still jumping in their sits - that's when he made the turn and ended up on their tail.
Dee
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Thu Oct 18, 2001 2:42 am

I think that my comrade Dee exahagerated a little bit just to make it sound really nice but as a matter of fact this really happened because the MiG he is talking about is in my ... how do u call it in English? squadron, yes? 784 that is... Anyway, the fact remains.

I was wondering if it was just a coincidense that there was a apy plane on this day or maybe something else?


Kind regards!
 
MiG31
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:52 pm

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 3:28 am

No one replies any more to this topic?  Sad
 
Guest

RE: What's Cool In Russia?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 4:05 am

Well, MiG31, I've got a question. Just to make you feel better  Smile
Actually I was wondering exactly how many MiG-29A/S and UB is Russia upgrading to MiG-29SMT and UBT? Have any been modernized to MiG-29M (MiG-33) or MiG-29SM? Also, what is the status of the MiG-31s (are there plans - I'm asking just about plans, I know funds are a different problem - to upgrade them to MiG-31M?) and the Su-27s?


On a different note, what about LFS? The I2000 concept I've seen pics of seems to suggest some sort of geometric stealth. Yes? No? I hope Russia doesn't go the geo. stealth way, IMO it's a waste of resources and an unnecessary reduction of the plane's maneouverabilities. Is the LFS really gonna fly in 2006? I certainly hope so, but it seems rather ambitious. First flight 2006, rapid deployment in 2010.

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