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Formation Flying

Tue Oct 16, 2001 12:41 am

Dear forum,

I am wondering how this is done. How do the pilots keep lined-up?? How do they change course, speed or altitude together, etc...?? How do they group from takeoff or regroup afterwards?

SabenaA340
 
Lucifer
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 7:22 pm

RE: Formation Flying

Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:39 pm

Leader is in charge and tells everyone else when to alter something etc. Flying is achieved through lining up certain features from the aircraft on which you are formating and keeping the perspective the same. Slick judgement and anticipation required throughout. Usually takeoff in pairs/threes and when coming in to land do a 'run and break' move, involving heading for runway but high, peeling off one by one to the downwind, and landing individaully.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Formation Flying

Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:42 pm

training, training, and more training...
I wish I were flying
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: Formation Flying

Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:51 pm

and avionics,avionics and more avionics
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 8:18 pm

Pardon my ignorance, how is avionics involved?
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 8:28 pm

Thisdays aircraft are made to do many things only with their computer[part of avionics].So avionics help you with data measure distance to other a/c help you see in dark with IRSTs .After a one decade or even few years the pilot will be useless.
Slobodan
p.s. this is a computers world
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:06 pm

I have done formation flying when flying for other photographers during air-to-air shoots, and I can't see how any avionics could possibly help.
Eyeball Mk1 is what you use.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Username: Jan Mogren

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:16 pm

For air shows yes your eyes are just enaphe .But try to
fly in formation at night ,among the fog like on the assault missions.How your eyes will work than?
Pretty bad man.
Slobodan
p.s. remember when the two russian pilots wrecked themselves during one airshow[i don't remember which one, i watched in the amazing videous]
There was a cloud and one of them enter in it other decoded to believe his eyes unless his instruments and the other one didn't see his college when it came oit of cloud and 2 planes were destroyed.
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:25 pm

During night or in clouds, number 1 flies instrument and
the aircraft formating keeps their eyes on his navlights.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

Username: Jan Mogren

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:49 pm

aircraft formating keeps their eyes on his navlights
You were joking right?
LOL
Slobodan
Else guys from air gefence will be happy to detect you even without a radar.Just imagine a/c with navlights during the night perfect target for the SAMs.
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 9:59 pm

I would be quite surprised if SAMs need your navlights on to operate...
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:04 pm

You do have a point though, and I would be interested in hearing from any military pilot how it is done.
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
fireblade
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:13 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:07 pm

J.M.[hope you don't mind call you thatway]
NAvlights will help them very much .Air defence must turned off the radars when the a/c is close to them bedause for example they could you HARM and blow up the radar.Not good .Also during the clear night vanlights could be seen from a miles and your down man
Slobodan
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 10:38 pm

during a clear night NVGs and IR navlights can work wonders (and if the moon is out you might see your wingman in reflected moonlight even without them). You're clearly not reallly into modern equipment.
And before they had those means, they might use faint lights (navlights can be dimmed, or else a keep the instrument lights of the wingman in view...).
SAMs are sometimes optically guided, in which case it helps quite a lot if the target is visible  Laugh out loudD
I wish I were flying
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:11 pm

So, over enemy territory, in clouds; how is it done?
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
JohnM
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Formation Flying

Thu Nov 01, 2001 10:10 am

We never fly IMC formation flights in helicopters. At least not in my unit. That is a great way to meet your maker. We have a SOP for IMC formation breakup if we encounter clouds. As mentioned before, if NVGs are used, formation flight with no lights is no problem. It is easy to see the fire in the tailpipe of the guy in front of you, and for that matter the entire aircraft. If ground lights are encountered, it is best to be slightly below the aircraft in front of you, to keep lead above the horizon. Then you won't loose him in the ground lights and have a big problem. Our aircraft are not equipped with SKE (station keeping equipment) that some airlifters use.
 
Jan Mogren
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Formation Flying

Sun Nov 04, 2001 9:13 pm

I'm sorry but I still don't understand how avionics help you flying formation in clouds. Anyone cares to tell me how such a device works?
/JM
AeroPresentation - Airline DVD's filmed in High Definition
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: Formation Flying

Mon Nov 05, 2001 8:56 am

Avionics are not used for formation flying- except for the lead plane of course. Fireblade doesnt have a clue... It is lall about being lined up on certain point on the aircraft visually.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
JohnM
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Nov 06, 2001 1:51 pm

Aircraft that are equipped with a station keeping system (SKE) do indeed use avionics to maintain position, even in IMC conditions. SKE for example will show your position in a formation and give cues to maintain position. To my knowledge used mainly in airlifters and larger helicopters. I don't know if the fighter world uses this system. Of course in good weather, the good old Mk 1 eyeball is the primary system used.
 
ericCieslar
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2001 7:03 pm

RE: Formation Flying

Tue Nov 06, 2001 3:10 pm

dont know if this helps but some planes have formation lights

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