dandy_don
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Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 09, 2002 12:38 pm

Probably a topic discussed before but...

Most would vote for the P-51 Mustang in the European Theater. But any arguments for the Spitfire or P-47?

Haven't ever heard a comparison between the Mustang and Corsair or Mustang v Hellcat. I know they are different but nevertheless who would win providing equally skilled pilots?
 
Dash 80
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:43 pm

For best WWII fighter in the European theatre, my vote goes to the Spitfire with P-47 as runner-up (even though the P-51 was a far superior aircraft).

In the Pacific theatre my vote goes to F6F Hellcat with the P-38 as runner-up.

Just my opinions though Smile
...where the rubber hits the runway...
 
L-188
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 09, 2002 6:17 pm

OHH...I don't think that you can pick just one.

The Spitfire has it points and is an elegant aicraft but it lacked a heavy ground punch. And it's carrier versions where also lacking in carrier stability and ruggedness. Also some of the earlier versions suffered during that period that the RAF was deciding to switch from banks of 30 cal machine guns to cannon.

I think the post Merlin versions of the Mustang has to be considered as one of the best balanced aircraft out there. But it's belly mounted radiator made ground fire problematic.

I think I am going to suggest the F4U Corsair. Elegant design. Excellent air to air and air to ground charictaristics. And a very rugged airframe.
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schreiner
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 09, 2002 8:55 pm

In my point of view:

01 - Mosquito (due to hi speeds)
02 - Hellcat (read L-188)
03 - P38 (due to speed and survival rates)
04 - Spitfire (due to elegance and manuverability)
05 - P51 (due to its huge range)
06 - P-47 (star engine... could not be damaged!)
07 - Me 109 (did a lot for the luftwaffe)
08 - Huricane (we've to thank our freedom to this a/c)
09 - Zero (Fast as hell)
10 - C-47 - Dacota's (the workhorse of WWII)

Well... this is my top 10... I think that the mosquito was the best a/c then... only it came a bit late.  Sad
It's also one of the most beautifull a/c ever built.

Cheers,
Wouter
Soaring the internet...
 
L-188
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 09, 2002 9:30 pm

Are you trying to start a Hellcat vs. Corsair fight Schreiner  Confused



I guess it would be more interesting then the Boeing Vs Airbus fights that usually happen here  Big thumbs up
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schreiner
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 09, 2002 11:49 pm

L188: Well... both are great... I'm not intending to start a war...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy But, maybe you can give some reasons for your pick...

Cheers,
Schreiner
Soaring the internet...
 
L-188
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:01 am

Both Aircraft feature the same basic engine (R-2800), Simular armaments 6 .50 machine guns.

I feel however that the Corsair was a better air to ground aircraft. Not that the Hellcat was any slouch. I also believe that the Hellcat had more sacrifices made in it's handling to allow it to be easier to land on an aircraft carrier. The Corsair first went to USMC units for the first year or so of combat until the got the Air/Oil mixes in the strut right.

I also think that the "gull wing" design and the smoother curves of the F4U are simply more attractive Love
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
schreiner
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:44 am

Well... I must say that the Corsair is more beautifull but;

Corsair's made: 8645
Hellcat's made: 12272

Corsair's navy carrier debute was in 1944.
Hellcat's in 1942

And the Hellcat was the first a/c that could outmanouver the Zero.

Well.... both were great a/c's but well... the details are here...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers,
Wouter
Soaring the internet...
 
Spacepope
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:48 am

Dornier "Pfiel". Never made it much further than testing, but a real performer.


Also to weigh in on the F6f vs F4U debate, how many Hellcats actually saw service in the Korean war?

T.J.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Contact_tower
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 2:11 am

The fighter most crucial to the allied victory was the fighters of RAF fighter command during the Battle of Brittain. And of that the most numerous in those battles.

Hence: The Hurricane!
 
GDB
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 4:54 am

Best aircraft? How about best engine? What have these all got in common;
Spitire, Hurricane, Mosquito, P-51D....
The R/R Merlin engine.
Anyone for the YAK-3? I don't know much about it, but it's reckoned to be the best WW2 Soviet fighter. If the airwar on the Eastern front was anything like the ground war, that would be the aircraft which broke the Luftwaffe's back.
For me, later model Spitfires and the P-51D are the best WW2 fighters, the ability of the P-51D to escort daylight bomber raids must have been a shattering blow to Luftwaffe morale.
 
Guest

RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:15 am

The best American fighter of WW2 would have to be the P-51 Mustang. If it wasn't for the P-51 with it's powerful Rolls Royce Merlin V-1650 V12 engine giving it the speed it needed to go against the best German & Japanese fighters. It also had the range that the other Allied fighters did not have to escort our B-17s & B-24s all the way to Berlin and back and it escorted our B-29s to targets in Japan. The best British fighter would have to be the Rolls Royce Merlin or Griffon powered Supermarine Spitfire.
 
Thumper
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:16 am

I always liked the F8F BEARCAT!But all around I guess the P-51 Mustang.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:01 pm

If you go only by number of kills, the F6F is an easy winner. I'm partial to the P-38 though. Not really a great fighter but it scared more Japanese than any other aircraft. In Europe, the Spitfire probably would have won WWII if the US hadn't joined in, the P-47 was the best US fighter and the Me-109 the best axis fighter. Just my opinions of course, except for the F6F statement, that is a fact.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
L-188
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:41 pm

Schreiner...

From my readings there where two reasons for the Corsairs late entry into the carrier war. One was the tendency of the Corsair to be bouncy when landing on a carrier. This was eventually fixed by adjusting the oil to air ratio in the landing gear struts.

The other reason was that the Corsair was sent over to the USMC for use in their squadrons which where prodominatly land based. Part of that decision did have to do with the bouncy landing gear.

As far as the manuverablity goes.

I don't know of a single US built aircraft that could manuver inside the turning radius of a Zero on a regular basis.

What gave the US an advantage eventually was that the tatics the US used shifted the combat from a "turning" one to a Climbing and diving one. the much more powerfull engines used by US fighters typically had twice the ponies that the Sakae engine in the Zero did and the US fighters where much heavier. This allowed them faster climbs and dives. The Zero had a much lighter wing loading which made it much more of a glider, and it's smaller engine was at a definate disadvantage in a climb. The low wing loading did allow it a really quick turn and untill the US started to climb and dive the Zero was the aircraft to beat.

And as was mentioned by somebody else here. The Corsair did last long enough to see service both in Korea and in the Suez and Vietnam (French)
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schreiner
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:10 pm

But we are talking BEST WWII FIGHTER... not korea! But I must say that you are well informed! You have now made it to my "respected user" list! I would like to dicuss more with you... we will meet again! Big grin

Best regards,

Wouter
Soaring the internet...
 
L-188
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:17 pm

I read a book, it came with the airplane.....



I wish  Laugh out loud
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MiG31
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 11, 2002 3:26 am

I think Yak-3. It is very light - around 2 tons and fast (up to 740km/h).
All the Soviet Pilots loved it. Came into serial production in 1943. Oh yeah, it also had practical celing of 12000m.
I like it a lot.


Regards,


I.T.
 
Guest

RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:31 am

The P-47 was a little too heavy to manuever with some of the German fighters. It lacked the range to escort our bombers to targets deep in Germany. It was good for air to ground missions to support our troops on the battlefield. The US Navy F8F Bearcat came on the scene in the Pacific too late to see any action.
 
Rodrigo Santos
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:23 pm

Best fighter?? For me, you can’t rely this on the results. Results are often related with pilot skills and numeric superiority (and Axis forces were crippled from mid-war on).

Then how?? Well, let’s talk about performance stats. In here, late war German aircraft rule. Speed? Me-262. All-round performance? Late Fw-190 forms, such as 190D-9, 190D-11, 190D-13, Ta-152H... Supreme machines!

Of course, they all were cursed by poor pilots, fuel shortages (heck, everything was short!), and so on...

Best engine? The Rolls-Royce Merlin has to be a contender, together with Daimler-Benz DB-600 series, with showed more capable of high-end performance then the British engine (see the Bf-109K).
 
MiG31
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:27 pm

I fond it rather surprising and upsetting that none of the a/c from one of main and biggest countries in this war that won, are mentioned.
Trust me they are not bad. Not bad at all! Big grin

Kind Regards,


I.T.
 
L-188
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:34 pm

If this had been about the best WWII ground attack aircraft it would have been.

But the Soviet Union never really had good enough metalurgy to build good superchargers. This hurt their aircraft's high altitude performance
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LY744
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:55 pm

GDB did mentione the YAK-3, if that's what you (MiG31) meant.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: Best World War II Fighter

Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:20 am

In the European Theater the P-38 Lightning had many problems such as the superchargers failing at high altitudes or there was a lack of adequate heating for the cockpit. The P-38 was very good in the Pacific where it was more than a match for the Mitsubishi A6M Zero. The highest scoring American ace of WW2 Major Richard Bong scored all of his 40 victories in the P-38.
 
Guest

RE: Best World War II Fighter

Sat Jan 12, 2002 7:20 am

Spacepope, the F6F Hellcat did see action in the Korean War. It was loaded with explosive ordinance and by remote control it was flown into a target. The US Navy & Marine Corps used the 4-bladed propeller F4U-4 and 5 models for ground support missions. One F4U did manage to shoot down a MIG-15.
 
AFC_Ajax00
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:25 am

Spitfire and F6F hellcat
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:21 am

As you know, there were two sides in that dispute so the best fighter of WWII clearly has to be the Me262.
 
GDB
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:20 am

The Me262 was a very advanced aircraft, but, the engines were very unreliable with a very short time on wing, though the latter was a feature of early jets.
Hitler delayed the aircraft as he saw it as a 'blitz bomber'. Loaded with two 500 kg bombs it was vunerable.
IMHO the best German fighter was the FW190 series.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:21 pm

The 190 was a good airplane from a spec stand point but from a pilot it just didn't feel right to the pilots and thus they didn't like it as much, and weren't as good as it could have been.

I think the P-51D model will always be the best fighter with the Couriser in a very close second, the P-51 since it was designed to be a ground attack fighter had very good low lvl charestics, on top of that when mated with the Merlin engine which gave it good at altitude preformance it became a very good fighter with a good arament.

On an intresting note the Zero was designed after what US training plane?
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Guest

RE: Best World War II Fighter

Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:48 am

The best Spitfire models were the Mark IXe with the Rolls Royce Merlin 61 or 66 engine with a two stage supercharger and a four bladed propeller or the Mark XIVe with the Rolls Royce Griffon engine, bubble canopy, and a five bladed propeller.
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:54 am

GDB, agreed that the Me262 engines were cranky but that's why the A/C was designed so that an engine change could be done in the field in about 30 min. using normal tools and average mechanics.
IMHO, the 262 was advanced not only by virtue of its jet engines but by the swept-back wings; something not satisfactorally duplicated on a production fighter until the F-86.
 
Guest

RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:04 am

Another great American fighter plane was the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk or Kittyhawk. It was the USAAF's main fighter at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack that was available in large numbers. Too bad it's Allison V-1750 V12 engine that powered all models of the P-40 except the F & L models, did not perform well above 16,000ft.
 
L-188
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:32 pm

I have a few reasons for not picking the Me-262.

The engines where both tempermental and short lived.

The aircraft was fast but it cost it in it's turning radius, as in "One Pass-Haul ASS". I think you can make the comparison between the P-40 and the Zero at the start of the war and the Me262 and the P-51 at the end.

The aircraft had a long ground run and a slow climbout. Jumping these aircraft on the takeoff roll was a favorite pastime of Pursuit fighter squadrons.

The engines took a long time to spool up.

The 262 was an impressive aircraft but it was not mature technology and suffered in part because of that fact.
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ILOVEA340
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:04 pm

I personaly love the lightning!!!
 
Rodrigo Santos
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Sun Jan 20, 2002 2:20 am

Care to compare the P-51 to the Ta-152 H? Man, forget the P-51, really... You can´t really beat the germans in this one.

I think it is very strange here, people picking only allied birds... P-51? Talk about the Griffon engined Spits, or the Bf-109 K´s, both faster...
 
MiG31
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:12 am

Yak-3 rulez!!! Big grin
Fast, light, popular among pilots!

Kind Regards,

I.T.
 
Guest

RE: Best World War II Fighter

Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:33 am

I was reading a book on the Curtiss P-40 series and when the P-40F model was introduced in late 1941 powered by a Packard built low altitude Rolls Royce Merlin 28 engine, it did not exceed in performance over the Allison powered models. I wonder why it was not powered by the same Merlin engine as the Mark V Spitfire which would have helped it perform better against the German Me. 109 above 20,000ft?
 
T prop
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:26 pm

I noticed the Me262 mentioned here. I think it was a great aircraft. Apparently other people in the U.S. thought it was also.

This may be slightly off the subject, but I'm wondering if everyone knows of the stormbird project? In case anyone doesn't the first NEW Me262 has been completed last month. Go to the website and read about it, fascinating I think.

http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html

T prop.
 
BWIrwy4
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Sun Jan 27, 2002 4:26 pm

My favorite WWII fighter is the FW-190. It was one of the fastest fighters in that war, and it was the most heavily armed and armored of any of them. It was also an ingenious design, using a radial engine to help conserve limited Gernam resources and still getting all of that speed out of the plane. Given numerical equality, I believe that Germany would have won the air war with this plane. The allied .50 caliber machine guns just couldn't kill the FW-190 efficiently. It wasn't the best dogfighter, but one burst from those cannons would be an almost certain kill, even against a B-17. Bomber crews feared the FW-190 more than almost any other German plane, because it was so effective at converting bombers to aluminum chaff.
 
vc10
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:23 am

I have heard that the BMW radial engine that was fitted to the FW-190 initially was an American engine built under licence by BMW ,who ignored requests to cease production when the war started. Has anybody got any information on this.

Ta, little vc10
 
CMK10
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RE: Best World War II Fighter

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:39 pm

P-51! get those tanks!
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
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willdw
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:53 am

The Tuskegee pilots did their damn level best defending our bombers against the Huns, in what ever..
 
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Tugger
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:20 pm

My favorite has always been the Hawker Sea Fury.
She never saw the war but was a child born of WWII.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
AERTANK
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:43 am

1. Spitfire, continuously in production through out the war, I particularly like the Griffon engined versions
2. Mosquito
3. P-51D Mustang
4. F-4U Corsair
5. Bf-109
6. F-6F Hellcat
7. FW-190
8. Yak-3
9. Hurricane
10. Tempest
Last edited by AERTANK on Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
L-188
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:04 am

dandy_don wrote:
Haven't ever heard a comparison between the Mustang and Corsair or Mustang v Hellcat. I know they are different but nevertheless who would win providing equally skilled pilots?


Actually the Air National Guard and the Navy/Marine Reserves regularly flew mock dogfights between the two during the late 40's/Mid 1950's.

From what I have read they were pretty evenly matched, and it was the pilot skills that made the difference.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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spudh
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:26 pm

There is a book called "Flying to the Limit, testing world war 2 single-engined fighter aircraft" written by Peter Caygill, ISBN 184415226X which goes into great detail on the relative strengths of European theatre fighters on both sides. Pretty much each type has advantages in different aspects. Interestingly the F-4 and F-6 could easily outturn an Fw 190 but the Fw had superior roll rate and climb. They concluded that the Fw 190 was an excellent interceptor but American test pilots almost all preferred their own mounts if given the choice.

With regard to the best, the P-51 is noted as one of the few weapons which actually shortened the war through its outstanding blend of capabilities. It might not have been the best at any attribute (I can't remember if it was) but was one of the best at everything.

My favourite though is probably the Mosquito
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:52 am

It's not possible to nominate one fighter as "best" without stating for what purpose:

Dogfighting / hunting unescorted bombers
Night fighter / day fighter
Carrier based / land based
Point defense / long range bomber escort
And probably a few more such things.

Ask for a point defense, land based, night fighter, and one relevant candidate would be the Heinkel He 219 Uhu. Have you ever heard about that plane? Probably not because so few entered service, and only after Luftwaffe had mostly run out of gas. Ask for something else, and....

"Best fighter" could also be the one with the greatest impact on the war. That could easily be the Hawker Hurricane. The Spitfire and the Hurricane pretty much prevented that Nazi Germany in 1940 overran also the last bit of central and north-western Europe, and ending the war making it all one big nazi empire. The Hurricane more so than the Spitfire simply due to greater quantity in service.

That was still when Germany and Russia were sort of "allied" having split Poland fifty-fifty the year before. The nazi war on Russia starting 1941 would then have become sort of "WW3".

With no western front to take care of Germany might have had more success in Russia and produced a Nazi empire of all Europe including Russia.

WW2 would have ended before Pearl Harbor, so forget about any US fighters, except maybe a few dozen lend-lease P-40 Warhawks.

Maybe the Hurricane wasn't the "best" in any single discipline, but sure we owe it a lot.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
tommy1808
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:38 am

prebennorholm wrote:
It's not possible to nominate one fighter as "best" without stating for what purpose:

Dogfighting / hunting unescorted bombers
Night fighter / day fighter
Carrier based / land based
Point defense / long range bomber escort
And probably a few more such things.


And you have to define by what measure you define "best". From the Pilots perspective the aircraft that gives me the best chance of winning a fight would be the "best". If you go by kill ratio i´d assume that the ME-109F and the FW-190D would take that price hands down.

best regards
Thomas
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:42 pm

I would say:

1. 262 by far.

For impact, I would say the Hurricane, the plane won the Battle of England, far outnumbered the sexy Spitfire.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
jumpjet
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Re: Best World War II Fighter

Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:38 am

Tempest
Mosquito
Mustang

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