dandy_don
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 11:13 am

Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 02, 2002 1:31 pm

Thanks for all of the discussion in my previous post about the best fighter of WWII.

Let's look at the question a different way. You are a pilot. You have your pick of any ww2 fighters at your airbase (let's leave out the me262 jet). Your mission is to fly against another pilot from a base 100 miles away who can also pick any fighter. You don't know which he is going to go at you with.

Which would you choose?
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 02, 2002 1:57 pm

I guess I'll take the P-51 Mustang. Supposely most 'experts' agree that this is the best of the WWII fighters on the Allied side. When I mean 'experts", I went with Aviation Week & Space Tech panels of pilots who actually flew all these planes in WWII...attack, bomber & fighter aircrafts. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Glenn
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 02, 2002 3:47 pm

F4U Corsair
 
TomH
Posts: 950
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 02, 2002 10:28 pm

The first squadron of Grumman F8F Bearcats was working up when the war ended-so it is eligible for your discussion. I'm going to deploy that squadron to the base you mentioned above.

I just got my big R-2800 fired up and the four 20mm cannon in F8F-1B are loaded with HEI.

If I was the other guy, I would stay on the ground, he's going to have a very bad day otherwise.

TomH
 
Thumper
Posts: 520
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sun Feb 03, 2002 10:33 am

I agree with you TomH.I took the F8F Bearcat on the first post but was told it came along too late! I think it was by far the best WW2 Fighter! They were counting number of kills, but the post said BEST Fighter and I still think the F8F Bearcat could out preform any of them!
 
Rodrigo Santos
Posts: 85
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sun Feb 03, 2002 12:32 pm

I would pick the Ta-152 H. A strong contender to a Bearcat killer. Faster, and had 4 20mm AND a 30mm cannon.

We should point that given the same fuel (high octane fuel from USA was far superior), the Ta-152 and all Axis planes would have a sidnificant increase in power. They did all that with some cheap-ass gas!
 
schreiner
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2002 2:27 am

P-51 or P-47, Spit or Hurricane...And yes L-188; also the Corsair...  Laugh out loud
Soaring the internet...
 
TomH
Posts: 950
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2002 5:38 am

Rodrigo,

You have chosen the high-altitude version of the potent Ta-152 series. If I was flying a bomber, I would say you made an excellent choice. But I'm in a Bearcat.

At home base I was just recently briefed by intel on the Ta-152H and its distinctive high-aspect ratio wings. I have taken note of your presence at about FL 350 and have elected not to engage. Instead I will loiter at medium altitude near your home base awaiting your return.

By that time your big 30mm cannon will probably be inoperative due to the very low temps you exposed it to during your high flight. When you descend for approach to homeplate, I'll be waiting.
 
Rodrigo Santos
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:34 am

I´ll keep waiting, I´ll come diving at you so fast that will make your head swing!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Just joking, I woudn´t do that. The long wings of the Ta-152 gave it some nice manuveability at medium to high altitude, and I´m not getting down! I know your´re there, smartie!

Oh, and if I was given the same chances as you (fuel, etc etc), forget it, that Jumo 213E engine would leave the Bearcat standing...

 
NKP S2
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2002 5:13 pm

Since you did not lay out the tactical scenario of the battle ( who's above who...our altitudes etc ), I'll compromise: Later ( "J" and subsequent, barring the "droop snoot" ) P-38 Lightning- The F4U-4 a close second. -- BTW: I agree with the others about the F8F...Would've been great to see how effective it would've been in both the Pacific and ETO. Ditto the F7F Tigercat.
 
TomH
Posts: 950
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Mon Feb 04, 2002 9:19 pm

Rodrigo,
You have a good point about the fuel quality issue. Also, I noticed the Ta-152's 30mm cannon was engine-mounted. It may not be frozen, and I had better watch my position carefully! Still, I can accelerate in from 10 miles out like no other fighter-and I'll do just that as soon as I see you on the downwind.

NKP S2,
Yeah, the rules of engagement (ROE) were pretty incomplete. Makes choosing your mount difficult. That's why I had to stay low, 'cause that Ta-152 had no equal at high altitude. Then again, my Bearcat doesn't fight at high altitude, but your Lightning does. Care to give him a go?

 
Guest

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:42 am

Best USAAF fighter of WW2 would have to be the P-51D with the bubble canopy and six .50 caliber machine guns in the wings. Best US Navy & Marine Corps fighter would have to be the F4U-4 Corsair with a four bladed propeller and either six .50 caliber machine guns or four 20mm cannons in the wings.
 
TomH
Posts: 950
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Tue Feb 05, 2002 2:06 am

Tedski,

You made your claim but give us no supporting information. Of course, you'll be writing a book by the time you are finished, I suspect.


Maybe you can confirm. I heard the bubble top fighters were often slower than their "razor-back" predessesors. The Thunderbolt, Mustang and Corsair all went through this transformation. Wonder if that statement about speed is true.

You haven't mentioned the F2G-too late for the war?

The Corsair certainly was good. First flown before the US entered the war, it remained in production until late 1953 or so, about 13 years!



 
Rodrigo Santos
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Wed Feb 06, 2002 10:58 pm

TomH, you're right, all bubble top fighters were actually slowar then their razorback predecessors. I guess the difference was not all that great, and visibility was a better edge to have in dogfight then a few more Mph in top speed.

A thing that the Bearcat was much better waas in climb-rate. I couldn't get comparisson charts on both the Bearcat and the Ta-152H, but as the germans never got the high octane fuel, I guess we will never know for sure by how much the Bearcat beated it in climbing (given the high octane fuel).
 
L-188
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Wed Feb 06, 2002 11:18 pm

F2G really wasn't too late for the war.....The military realized that they where getting the same speeds out of the F4U-4.

Correct on the comments about bubble vs straight/razor back aircraft.

And another point for the comments about the fuel. The higher octane fuel allows higher compression engines to be used which allowed more power from the engine for the same weight.

If memory serves the Germans and Japanese where only running about 92 Oct Fuel, while the US was running 115/130.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Thu Feb 07, 2002 10:31 am

It maybe true that the razorback models were faster but the bubble canopy models of the Mustang, Thunderbolt & Spitfire provided unrestricted visibility for the pilot to check his tail vs. the razorback models that had to have a rearview mirror above the front windshield.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:38 am

Spitfire

 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Fri Feb 08, 2002 8:31 pm

Sopwith Camel........
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 1:55 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Fri Feb 08, 2002 8:33 pm

......kidding!It has to be either the Hurricane or Spitfire.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Fri Feb 08, 2002 8:34 pm

Besides everybody knows that the Fokker Triplane was a better turner......

Remember Snoopy as the World War I fighting ace never shot down the Red Baron.... Smokin cool
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
peterba69
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:31 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 09, 2002 3:36 am

I'd take the late model P-38. The security of the extra engine may be what gets me home after I kick your a##, even if you are able to get some hits on me. Look @ Bong's record. Probably the most heavily decorated A/C in the Pacific.
 
Rodrigo Santos
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:56 pm

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 09, 2002 9:05 am

yeah, the P-38 was nice against those Zeros... Against a Ta-152 or Fw-190 D-11, I would prefer the bearcat or Mustang...
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 09, 2002 12:35 pm

The P-61 of course. You didn't say it was a daylight fight. I do believe, can't prove of course, that the P-61 was the best night fighter in WWII.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 09, 2002 4:58 pm

Still waiting for the specific situation...Till then, I'll "give it a go" ( at "Tom H's" suggestion ) and stick with my original choice ( P38-J and later ) ... although it shall be noted that the twin engine redundancy did not really factor into my equation as much as the all-around performance superiority did...Speed, manuverabilty, firepower- at all altitudes. -- "I Miss Piedmont": The 'Black Widow' ( P61 ) was arguably the best purpose-built night fighter, but was also reputed to be extraoridinarily manuverable despite its' size- Powerful punch as well.
 
Guest

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 09, 2002 11:38 pm

The P-38 would have been a better performer if the two Allison engines were replaced with Rolls Royce Merlins. This is what was done with the P-51 Mustang, where they replaced the Allison V-1710 V12 with a Rolls Royce Merlin V-1650 V12 that powered the Spitfire, which increased it's speed to 440 MPH and it's range to over 2,000 miles to make it the best bomber escort fighter of WW2.
 
Rodrigo Santos
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 1:56 pm

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sun Feb 10, 2002 1:00 am

Ok, I think we should stick with day fighters. Nightfighting is very interesting too, but I don´t think that the original question is about this.

Allied, for me the Bearcat can´t be beaten.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sun Feb 10, 2002 1:25 am

The P-38 did have to worry about the yaw that would normally be caused by the prop rotating. This is because they where counterrotating.

The P-38 got a bad rap in Europe mainly because the early versions where sent there and they had yet to work out the bugs in the supercharger system.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BWIrwy4
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Wed Feb 13, 2002 6:36 pm

I'll take a FW 190
 
peterba69
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:31 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:58 am

L188: The first 38's didn't have C/R props, and did have adverse yaw problems. After the first 3-4 prototypes were built, they all had them.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:19 pm

Yup...I am going to have to double check but I belive that those where the prototypes and the ones that where built to the British Order order also lacked C/R props. Those British aircraft also lacked superchargers, which made the aircraft worthless are fighting aircraft.

When the US took over that order after Pearl the aircraft that where built to those specs where relegated to training duties.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:59 pm

Not to be picky, but I think the correct term is that the aircraft were fitted with "handed engines." This means each engine had a different dash number, which stood for the rotation direction of the prop shaft.

Like several aircraft I can think of, when the foreign order was taken over by the US, the aicraft were given unique designations. Sometimes these designations were not even in the same series, e.g. P-400 (P-39) and DB-7 (A-20).

How come nobody brought up the Do335? I thought it was worth mentioning because I think it was the most fantastic looking warplane to evolve during WWII.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:25 pm

Handed is a common term for it also.

I think it may be more commonly used depending on where you live.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
peterba69
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:31 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:23 am

Behind the gearbox, they were the same engine.
 
Rodrigo Santos
Posts: 85
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:47 am

I didn´t mention the Do-335 because it didn´t reach operational status. Sure was the fastest prop of the war. I think it´s butt ugly, but with a lot of character!
 
TomH
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:13 am

RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:44 am

Right Peter, the crankshafts rotated in the same direction then, but not the prop shaft.
 
tommy the cat
Posts: 17
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RE: Best Wwii Fighter, Part 2

Sat Feb 16, 2002 9:39 pm

if i was a pilot in ww2 i would have to choose the p-51d mustang. its not my favourite ww2 plane but i think it would be the best plane for that situation.

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