racko
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B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sat Feb 09, 2002 2:22 am

German N-tv.de says that Airbus is going to build an long-range bomber to replace the B-52.
Will European Air Forces buy such a bomber ?
I doubt that the USAF will buy it, as they have to buy Boeing/american products...

"Airbus Industrie will in Zukunft einen Bomber bauen. Der Konzern plane ein Konkurrenzmodell zum US-Kampfflugzeug B-52, sagte Airbus-Vorstand Noel Forgeard dem Nachrichtenmagazin "Focus".

Damit will der europäische Flugzeugbauer das Geschäft mit einem B-52-Nachfolger nicht allein dem Erzrivalen Boeing überlassen. Die schon im Vietnamkrieg bewährten B-52 wurden zuletzt von der US-Luftwaffe in Afghanistan eingesetzt.

Airbus baut bisher nur Passagiermaschinen; das erste militärische Modell soll der Transporter A400M werden, über dessen Beschaffung es in Deutschland heftige Auseinandersetzungen gegeben hatte. Der geplante Bomber wäre dann das erste "echte" Kampfflugzeug.

Der Kampf gegen den internationalen Terror könne nach Auffassung von Wehrexperten auch in Zukunft den Bau von Langstreckenbombern erfordern.

Airbus ist ein gemeinsames Unternehmen des europäischen Raumfahrtkonzerns EADS (European Aeronautic Defence and Space) und des britischen Luftfahrtkonzerns BAe Systems. "
 
heavymetal
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sat Feb 09, 2002 3:39 am

German N-tv.de says that Airbus is going to build an long-range bomber to replace the B-52.
Will European Air Forces buy such a bomber ?


What European air forces need to replace their B-52s?
There's your answer.
 
jwenting
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sat Feb 09, 2002 3:41 am

Sounds extremely unlikely.
Only 3 nations in the home market for European military aircraft have had bombers after the second world war, and only one of those has had bombers with intercontinental capability.
Those countries are Germany (Canberra bombers in the 1950s and '60s), France (Mirage IV) and the UK (V-force and Canberras).
All except the French Mirage IVs have been withdrawn for a decade or so now at least.
The Mirage IV is in a totally different class. Even if France were to have an intention of replacing a low-altitude medium range supersonic penetration bomber with a (supposedly) larger high altitude subsonic intercontinental bomber with far more range the production run (no more than 2 dozen or so) would not warrant the cost to a commercial corporation. IF it is created nonetheless it would be irrefutable proof that airbus is getting massively subsidised by European governments which could lead to the sale of their aircraft being banned in many countries including the very lucrative US market.
I wish I were flying
 
GDB
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sat Feb 09, 2002 3:57 am

I think Airbus are looking at modifying an aircraft (A3405/6?), to haul lots of stand-off smart weapons.
Not dropping loads of 'dumb' or more recently, JDAMs, like the B-52's have been doing.
The RAF are keen to get more Nimrod MRA4s beyond the 21 programmed, not soley for maritime patrol, but as a way of carrying numbers of Storm Shadow weapons, which will shortly enter service on RAF fast jets.
So you can see how Airbus are thinking, maybe their aircraft would be designed for quick change from transport, tanking, C3 and surveillance, and the stand-off weapon lauching role.
Give Europe's forces a much needed long range capabilty.
I could see the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy and perhaps the Netherlands being customers.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sat Feb 09, 2002 12:31 pm

And when exactly was the last time any European nation had a heavy bomber? The answer is almost 60 years ago. A light bomber such as the F-117 I could see, but not a heavy.

BTW. Yes the F-117 is a bomber as opposed to a fighter, as was the F-111 before.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
jwenting
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sat Feb 09, 2002 6:21 pm

Piedmont, check your military history and my earlier post.
The UK retired its last heavy bombers about a decade ago, they were last used in anger in the Falklands, making the longest bombing missions in history.
I wish I were flying
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sat Feb 09, 2002 11:53 pm

Oops! Forgot the Vulcan.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
GDB
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sun Feb 10, 2002 2:09 am

The world has changed, the last British heavy bombers were designed for nuclear deterrence, and were replaced in that role by SLBM's.
The Vulcans carried on in reduced numbers as they had a useful night/adverse weather long-range capability. In effect they were stop-gaps until the Tornado arrived.
(Though many think an updated Buccaneer would have been better, it would have been range wise).
But the Tornado fitted the bill for central European operations.
Now the focus is on 'out of (NATO) area' operations.
So the need for long-range, big payload aircraft is emerging again.
It wouldn't be a B-52 replacement, European airforces would use it.
 
CX747
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sun Feb 10, 2002 4:06 am

I think that the question was answered by the fact that no European Militaries operate the B-52 and the U.S. is going to kep the "Buffs" flying for many decades to come.

Also, the longest bombing runs or "missions" record is not held by the B-2. Whiteman AFB to Afghanistan then to Diego Garcia, Non-stop.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sun Feb 10, 2002 6:28 am

Is or is not held by the B-2? Well, not is the answer. The longest sorties ever flown were Barksdale AFB to Iraq and return during the Gulf War. Flown by several B-52s, 12 I believe. That is a touch longer than Whiteman-Diego Garcia I believe.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
CX747
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sun Feb 10, 2002 7:15 am

Hmm that definately does raise the issue of whether or not the B-2 holds the record. Then again, during Operation Allied Force, B-2's flew nonstop Whiteman-Bosnia-Whiteman. Maybe the B-2 holds the longest mission with a different AFB at the end?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
WhiskeyNovembr
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sun Feb 10, 2002 2:36 pm



Piedmont,

If the F-117 is a bomber, what's up with the "F" prefix in the designation? Just typical government logic (or lack therof)?

 
LY744
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:29 am

First of all, the F-117 is a bomber, there's no doubt about that (same for the F-111). We've had a discussion about it's designation a while ago. See Why F117 And Not A117?


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
spectre242
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Mon Feb 11, 2002 8:11 am

A heavy stand off weapon platform would be a very useful addition to the larger European air forces. The US has made extensive use of its three heavy bomber types over the past decade or so with so many conflicts being in distant parts of the world. With the UK MoDs shift towards a greater ability to react to conflict quickly in distant countries a heavy long range bomber fleet would seem like an ideal weapon. I mean, you can have bases everywhere and long range Tornado missions using multiple tankers would be very hard on the crew in the cramp fighter-style cockpits. Plus the Tornados payload would not compare to what a heavy modified airliner (if that is what Airbus are proposing) could carry. GDB had an interesting point about the Nimrod. This would certainly seem like an ideal solution to this issue, at least for the short term. An airliner design which is already modified for military weapons carrying with state of the art avionotics and engines. Does anybody know what is the range of the MR4s?
 
Hoffa
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Tue Feb 12, 2002 3:21 pm

IMHO, Airbus should worry more about the A400M which is arguably a much more sound and logical program for which there is a clearly-proven demand. Don't see European countries raising their defence budgets anytime soon so I don't see such grandiose projects coming to light.
 
Dash 80
Posts: 294
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:09 am

An Airbus replacing the B-52.........over my dead body!
...where the rubber hits the runway...
 
747 4-ever
Posts: 575
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sun Feb 17, 2002 6:51 am

German N-tv.de says that Airbus is going to build an long-range bomber to replace the B-52.
Will European Air Forces buy such a bomber ?

What European air forces need to replace their B-52s?



How many eurpean air forces has B-52's to replace??
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Sun Feb 17, 2002 8:11 am

747 4-ever, was that a rethoric question? If not, no European AF (or any other AF outside of the US) has never operated the B-52.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
spectre242
Posts: 134
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Mon Feb 18, 2002 7:11 am

747 4-ever, it's not actually about European air forces replacing thier B-52s, its giving European airfoces a plane with B-52 capabilities or, I guess you could say replacing the strategic bombers which some European air forces used to have 10-20 years ago.
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: B-52 Replacement By Airbus?

Mon Feb 18, 2002 4:31 pm

Rumour has it North Korea is interested  Smile

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