Lancero
Topic Author
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:17 am

Tha Clasic DOG-FIGHT

Tue Mar 19, 2002 2:32 am

I am an military pilot on the cargo role.
My felow pilots on the fight´s planes spend a lot of time and fuel training for aereal combat with their infrared misiles (about 3 miles range in optimal conditions). I believe that it is a waste because all the countries around us have MIG-29 and F-16 with semi-active misiles (to 10 miles up to 40 miles range). on the moder world I think that dog-fight is out, instead of the "fire and forget" doctrine. What do you think?
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Tha Clasic DOG-FIGHT

Tue Mar 19, 2002 3:41 am

To a degree that is true, US doctrine is very much into the BVR (beyond visual range) capes and fights, alone or with GCI/AWACS targeting support.

Ciao,
Lt-AWACS
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
2912n
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 2:12 pm

RE: Tha Clasic DOG-FIGHT

Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:18 am

ANd that whole concept bit the U.S. Military in the ass during Vietnam, resulting in the formation of schools like Top Gun and the AF Adversary Program.
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Tha Clasic DOG-FIGHT

Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:26 am

actually now inthe Air Force we have the Fighter Weapons School at Nellis (where the navy moved most of theirs as well)
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Tha Clasic DOG-FIGHT

Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:38 pm

BVR is nice, but once the silver bullets are gone the opposition will still have aircraft left.
That's when you get down and dirty and slug it out with each other. Sidewinders and guns are still needed.

Indeed the US (and the UK) forgot about that in the late 1950s and early 1960s, believing that longrange missiles were all that was needed.
Then came Vietnam where suddenly those missiles ran out before the targets did and F-4s and F-105s began falling to MiG-19s armed with 23mm guns and sometimes primitive IR AAMs.
I wish I were flying

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