User avatar
STT757
Topic Author
Posts: 13200
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:18 am

I was wondering what role the JSF will play with the branches they're going to, I assume they're to replace the F-16 within the Air Force and the Harrier for the Marines but what about the Navy. Are they replacements for the older F-18s, and how does the performance of the JSF compare with the F-16 and F-18.

Does the JSF represent a big improvement for the Air Force compared to the F-16, and what are it's air-air capabilities. Does the JSF make up for the gap of air-air capability between the F-14 to the Super Hornet.

Thanks
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:59 am

My understanding is that the JSF will serve as a replacement for both the AV-8 and the F/A-18 in the USMC, as well as "non-super" Hornets in the USN. An obvious improvement in performance as compared to the F-16 and the F-18 are the F-35's stealth capabilities. Also, the VSTOL version's ability to fly like a "regular" fighter (super sonic capability etc.) should also be an improvement as compared to the AV-8.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:49 am

Are they still planning on replacing the A-10 with the JSF in the USAF? I've read that a few times, but it seems like it would be one of the worst ideas ever made in the history of aircraft replacement.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:57 am

Well, those A-10's will have to go some day and we all know that the US gov will not pay for a whole new fighter, maybe an armed UAV though.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Sat Apr 13, 2002 11:49 am

No NO NO, read the pentagons press release and you will see there replacing the F-15.
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Sat Apr 13, 2002 12:47 pm

"No NO NO, read the pentagons press release and you will see there replacing the F-15."

No they are not, they are replacing the F-16 in mainline Air Force service. The F-22 is the Air Superiority fighter to repalce the F-15.

as a sidenote The Netherlands and Canada have signed onto the program, and Italy is expected to as well.


Ciao and Hook 'em,
Lt-AWACS

Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:53 pm

There is political debate (started by the self-proclaimed 'social democrats' who really are socialists) in the Netherlands to pull out of the program again (after only a month or so) and spend the money on nice vote-winning things like foreign aid instead.
Elections coming up here...

And even if they loose out (as seems likely, they just want to keep the debate going for another month so it's not them making the decision) the procurement decision has not been made. Personally I expect the government here to back out and buy Rafalle instead (probably in exchange for some small bribes by the French government just as happened with the helicopter deal that got us the Cougar instead of the Blackhawk (which was the aircraft the army and airforce wanted, in fact everyone wanted it except the prime minister).
I wish I were flying
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:02 pm

There have been reports that the USN wants the VSTOL JSF scrapped, compelling the USMC to go with the CV version, thus lowering the cost.
Better yet for the USN, maybe forcing the USMC to take some F-18E/F's too.
If that was to happen, it would wreck plans for JSF to replace the UK Harriers, and force the UK to go with conventional carriers for the CVF programme.
More expensive, and the last time the UK operated conventional carriers was in 1978 when the old Ark Royal decommissioned.
It has always been a possibility, hence the projected designs for CVF having included conventional carriers as well as VSTOL versions.
Thales, one of two contractors bidding for CVF (the other is BAE), have unveiled their latest thinking, with two separate islands, and an angled flight deck.
Hopefully this will be resisted, apart from other innovations, the VSTOL JSF is a real leap forward, (and the reason the UK joined the programme at a very early stage), the requirement for an all-new dedicated VSTOL design being expensive and having a limited market, (USMC perhaps, 150-200 for the UK, and perhaps 50 more for the Spanish and Italian navies).

 
Guest

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Sun Apr 14, 2002 4:23 pm

If the Vstol was scraped than Boeing would be glad to do the work.
 
peterba69
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:31 am

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:02 am

Just a minor tech. point. It's "STOVL" for JSF. The prototypes did takeoff vertically (check Lockheeds' site for video, sorry I don't have the link right here) but would be too heavy to do it in combat.
 
peterba69
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:31 am

RE: JSF's Role With The AF, Navy, Marines And UK

Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:16 am

http://www.photos.external.lmco.com/ will get you the still shots.
 
Hamfist
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:40 am

I'm Not So Sure "replace" Is The Right Word...

Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:42 am

Not to be the dork on this topic, but I'm not sure "replace" is quite the right word. Huh? Well, think about it.

To say that a new weapon system is a "replacement" seems to suggest that it was built only with the past in mind. Do we really buy a new airplane to maintain the status quo?

Granted, the JSF will assume some of roles of the current fleet, but it is also designed with the future in mind. Our senior military and civilian leaders have surely held many "meetings of the minds" to determine what capabilities a 21st century fighter will need and have applied those findings to this new jet.

Therefore, the JSF isn't really "replacing" any particular aircraft. Just like the F-22 isn't really "replacing" the F-15C. It will simply assume that aircraft's role while also adding some other capabilities(i.e. air-to-ground...a capability not possessed by the F-15C.)

Again, not trying to nitpick, but just an idea to add to the discussion.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AvSafety46, rcair1, walter2222 and 11 guests