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AirIndia
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IAF Mirage Crashes

Fri May 10, 2002 2:56 pm

A mirage belonging to the Indian Air force crashed on take off from the Ambala Air Base. The sources say that the plane rammed into the boundary and then burst into flames. the pilot died.
 
LY744
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 11, 2002 4:53 am

What model?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Contact_tower
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 11, 2002 9:00 am

It was not a Mirage, but a Jaguar IM or IS.



"Thursday May 9, 3:01 PM


"NEW DELHI (Reuters) - An Indian Air Force fighter jet crashed in Haryana on Thursday, killing the pilot, in a second air force accident in less than a week.

A spokesman said a British-made Jaguar plane was taking off from Ambala airbase, 200 km north of New Delhi when it crashed.

Seven people were killed last Friday when a Russian-made MiG-21 smashed into a bank and an adjacent shop in Jalandhar. The pilot ejected safely before the crash.

"It will not be proper to link the two accidents, a court of inquiry has been ordered," air force spokesman Rajesh Dhingra said.

The defence ministry said last month that more than 100 MiG-21s had been lost in accidents over the past decade. "


Allso: http://in.news.yahoo.com/020509/43/1nnzl.html
 
irasna
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 11, 2002 4:06 pm

Military aircraft crashes are an everyday affair in India. This is a country with one of the largest military machines in the world. It aspires to be a regional superpower. It has good planners and highly trained people running the various arms of the armed forces. Then why this dismal safety record ? Is this lack of motivation and morale, poor maintenance standards or something else ?
 
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AirIndia
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 11, 2002 6:11 pm

This is only lack of interest that the government has in the air force or for that matter even in the civil aviation. The Defence Budget of india is aprrox 10% of the GDP roughly 10.2 Bn $. but majority of this goes into the terretorial Army development leaving little for the IAF. Although recent inductions of Sukhois have bolstered the force but it still lacks the teeth to bite any formidable regional enemy.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 11, 2002 9:36 pm

Just a small correction AirIndia. $10.2 bn equals approx 2.7% of the GDP and not 10%. But yes this means India is among the lowest spenders on defence in the World.

Pak spends anywhere between 7-8% currently.

The latest crash proves that India needs an AJT asap. Right now pilots go str8 from the subsonic Kiran Trainer Jets to Mach-2 Fighters/Bombers which is what causes so many crashes. Ovr 90% of the crashes involve student pilots!

But both the contenders (the British Hawk and Russian Mig-AT) are stuck in controversies, while trhe indegenously designed HJT-36 hasnt got past the prototype stage.

Till then i guess pilots are going to be used as cannon fodder!

- Roy
 
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AirIndia
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sun May 12, 2002 1:06 am

@Roy

ya i guess the amount should be more..it is i guess 50,000 crore indian rupees. agree with you on the AJT issue, absolutely necessary. They should get the british trainers asap, what do u think.

Guru
 
Contact_tower
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sun May 12, 2002 1:08 am

You can't blame all the crashes on the fact that the pilots move from a old subsonic trainer to a frontline fighter. If things are done properly, it is not a problem.
It's done in many countries, whitout the same problems. (ex: 30 year old Sk-60 to Viggen or Gripen)

I should think they need to focus on flight safety and training on what they have before focusing on new equipment. If you have a innsufficent flight safety culture you will get lots of incidents no matter what you fly.

(The Kiran is basically like a Jet Provost, or along those lines???)
 
jwenting
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sun May 12, 2002 2:57 am

Losses are bound to happen in military aviation. I can remember that a few years ago the US lost about one military aircraft a day due to accidents and noone thought that was weird.
There are many possible reasons:

  • maintenance deficiencies

  • pilot proficiency

  • weather

  • bad luck

  • sabotage

  • etc.



In the 1980s the Royal Netherlands Air Force lost a lot of F-5s (about one a month which is a lot given the low numbers we had, about 200 top).
Most flew against powercables during lowflying training in Norway. Initially pilot error was put forward (as it often is, dead men can't complain), but in the end someone woke up and discovered that those cables were not on the stripcharts used by the moving map display.
Just to illustrate a lot of things can cause crashes...
I wish I were flying
 
USAFHummer
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sun May 12, 2002 5:55 am

Yet another example of te IAF's horrendous attrition rate...this is unacceptable for a major nation like India, they need to get their act together and fast with regards to the AF...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
Contact_tower
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 25, 2002 6:22 am

Desert_Dweller:

I might sympatize with your views , but IAF is in this case the INDIAN AIR FORCE, and not your middle east neighbours!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 
LY744
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 25, 2002 8:28 am

"israelis use these planes to spy and destroy various parts of my country. (LEBANON)"

Oh, for crying out loud...

The IDF/AF does not have any Mirages, the last were retired over 20 years ago (replaced by F-16's courtesy of the big-Big Satan). The Kfir was retired 10 years ago. The only dedicated recoinassance a/c in the IDF/AF today is the RF-4E and local F-4E modifications. Various transport a/c (Like the 707) are also used to gather intel info, but they are operated from Israeli airspace.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
L-188
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Sat May 25, 2002 6:37 pm

That and the IDF never operated Jaguars, unlike the IAF which may still license produce them.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
flyhigh@tom
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RE: IAF Mirage Crashes

Tue May 28, 2002 12:49 am

Ok here we go, i do not know abt the cause of the jaguar crash but we cannot actually keep blaming the pilots for the Mig21 crashes so far. Most of the crashes were due to engine flameouts or other technical problems.

Till date have a look at the attrition rate:

Mig21 ~ 130 (5 in the past 3 months of which 3 in april alone)
Mig23 ~ 20
Mig27 = 20
Jaguar = 19 (1 this month)
Harrier ~ 8
Mig 29 = 5 (1 in the last month)
Mirage 2000 = 3 (1 of them was lost during a fly past)

Clearly we can see that the culprit is the good old Mig21. they clearly are outliving their lives in the IAF.(while taking away lives of a few good men as well)

maintenance deficiencies is a prime factor in most of the crashes. In today's world the IAF(Indian Airforce...) depends still heavily on these Aeging Mig21s...which actually is very bad for the defence. The govt has got to wake up.

-Thomas.

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