j.mo
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:29 am

F-22 Strike Raptor?

Mon May 20, 2002 1:44 am

I thought about this reading a post in another forum. If the F-22 will eventually phase out the F-15, do you think down the road the F-22 might be adapted for the role of F-15E's? With its somewhat stealth design it may be better at this but it's internal weapon stores could pose a problem carrying weapons like JDAM. I don't think the F-15 was envisioned for this role but it performs it very well. Anyone but USAFJR have any thoughts on this.
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: F-22 Strike Raptor?

Mon May 20, 2002 2:02 am

A F-22E version has been talked about for some time, and it would be a good F-15/F-117 replacement.
One problem, cash.
Rumours are circulating that the F-22 fighter buy may be reduced even further, maybe as low as 180 units, from the current 336. (Very low if true, the RAF, tiny in comparison to the USAF, are to get 232 Eurofighter Typhoons, not as expensive as F-22, but not THAT much cheaper).
(During the Cold War 750 were planned for the then ATF programme).
Expect the F-15E/F-117 to be replaced by JSFs.

 
LY744
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: F-22 Strike Raptor?

Mon May 20, 2002 2:32 am

The F-22A will be able to use JDAM bombs (that's pretty much all of its ground attack capability, AFAIK), but only 2 2000lb bombs can fit in its armament compartment. Further ground attack ammo will probably be introduced in the future, but that would come at the expense of stealthiness, as larger (amounts of) bombs and missiles will have to be carried on external stations (which will be jettison-able, so the a/c will return to its full stealthiness after getting rid of the external armament).

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: F-22 Strike Raptor?

Mon May 20, 2002 2:42 am

I think that the proposed F-22E would have a modified weapons bay, to allow a heavier load to be carried.
But no idea by how much, or how they would go about the modifications.
 
j.mo
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:29 am

RE: F-22 Strike Raptor?

Mon May 20, 2002 3:21 am

Related to this but a little off topic. I really get pissed about how the U.S. does business with Boeing, Lockheed, Northrop and most military hardware manufactures here in the U.S. For example, Lockheed will say o.k., this many fighters will cost $10 Billion. Then in the design process they need another $150 million but now the number of airframes are lowered. Then, oh wait testing will take longer and we need another $200 million. At what point do we need to look elsewhere, another difficulty with all the mergers, or start levying stiff penalties for over-budget and late products? If we started looking to Europe just once in while it may loosen the stranglehold these companies have on our nuts. Just rambling here but, good god how long can it take to make a F-22/OV-22/F-35/RAH-66?
 
bsergonomics
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:07 am

RE: F-22 Strike Raptor?

Wed May 22, 2002 10:35 am

J.mo ... errr... have you heard of the European Fighter Aircraft ... sorry, EFA ... sorry, Eurofighter ... sorry, EF2000 ... sorry, Typhoon (but only for export (!) version). The last a/c programme (as far as I'm aware) that was built To Spec, To Cost and To Schedule was the SR-71.

Half of the problem is the fact that we are pushing the boundaries of what is possible in an operational environment. Half of it is The Customer asking half way through the programme, "By the way, can we have it in pink? Oh, but that's stealthy pink that can't be picked up on camera..."

Now add some European politics ... "Ich mochte ... Io vorrei ... I would like..." and the whole lot becomes a mess.

Just for some really good measure, add in Mr (not wishing to be sexist) Time. The average a/c programme takes about 20 years from conception to service entry. How far have we come since 1982? The RAF (supported by RN) performed the first public (...) combat toss attack. Now we're into JDAM, JSOW, various missiles, a/c that can't be seen on radar (tee hee hee) etc., despite the fact that they were designed by these same people.

The fact is that we want our ladies and gentlemen in light blue to have the best kit that is available. Even if that means unfortunate circumstances in the mean time.

It's like the computer industry. We can have the best computer tomorrow, and the best software tomorrow, but if we want both that will work together, it will be the day after tomorrow and will cost three times as much. But we are in the business of killing people and not getting killed ourselves, so we want to make sure...
The definition of a 'Pessimist': an Optimist with experience...
 
j.mo
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:29 am

RE: FB-22 Strike Raptor?

Sat May 25, 2002 12:26 am

Bsergonomics,
I understand what you are saying. I guess my point is I think we need to be able to look elsewhere when the Aerospace companies are gouging us. Yeah, we need the best fighter in the world. But how about we produce it first, then start in on the changes. I just think that because there are so few companies left building airplanes, the sky is the limit on price.
And since I left the topic I will try to bring it back.
In Air International there is a small story on how the Sec. Of the Air Force says he would like to look into building the FB-22. They said the problem might be the larger radar needed would in turn need a redesigned radome which might affect supercruise. Apparently they are giving it some thought.

Jeremy
 
ContinentalFan
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:47 am

RE: F-22 Strike Raptor?

Sat May 25, 2002 2:43 am

The current issue of the Atlantic (May or June, don't have it on hand) has an interesting article on the JSF program, and what they're trying to do to keep costs under control. It also discusses why costs spiral out of control.

Mike.
 
j.mo
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:29 am

RE: F-22 Strike Raptor?

Sat May 25, 2002 8:24 am

I think in the same issue of Air International, it says the US Navy and Marine Corps are already looking to cut their JSF numbers in half.

Jeremy

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