Kiwi dave
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Rnzaf "upgrade"

Mon Nov 18, 2002 3:04 pm

the RNZAF is having 700 million (NZD) spent upgrading the transport fleet, the 727s are on the way out while the C-130s are being upgraded.

This is on top of the planned upgrades to the P-3 and C-130 fleets.

Each upgrade will cost 160 million (NZD) and will be completed by 2008.

Nice to see the air force get extra money after a few years of cut backs.
 
raaf_mirage
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Mon Nov 18, 2002 5:06 pm

RNZAF ? New Zealand ? What Air Force ?

It failed to exist when the Skyhawks and Macchis were retired.

Kiwi Dave, I feel for all the fast jet people in New Zealand.

Helen Clark = One very stupid Woman.

James.

(PS - Did you know that 19 RNZAF pilots have received flying positions with the RAF ?)
 
GDB
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Mon Nov 18, 2002 5:44 pm

Bad news for the RNZAF with the fast jets going, but good for the RAF with their pilot shortage, same happened for the Fleet Air Arm when the RAN's A4's were retired, some pilots found their way over here on Sea Harriers.

 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Wed Nov 20, 2002 5:15 pm

Raaf_mirage the Goverment went against the NZ people on this issue the skyhawks may have been old but at least we had something to defend NZ.

 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:15 pm

Kiwi dave what evidence do you have that the NZ people were against the scrapping of the fighter arm ?

Military aircraft freaks may have thier fantasies about jets but governments have to balance the books.

Unnecessary A-4's too expensive, better to do a few things well rather than do everything poorly !
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
jwenting
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:05 am

Pacific, right now you can't do anything at all...
There is no need for longrange transports when those aircraft have no bases to land on when they return because those have been bombed by unopposed enemies.

Your country has made the same mistake many smaller European countries made in the 1920s (and are now making again I have to admit) to think that you don't need to be able to defend yourself because there is no immediate enemy.
I wish I were flying
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:20 am

Jwenting - of course you are right, we are unable now or previuously to defend ourselves against a determined attacker. However NZ could spend 50% of GDP and still not be able to do so. Our population is tiny and area to defend is huge.

Much better to acknowledge reality and concentrate resources. For the airforce that is IMHO 3 areas, namely maritime reconnasince/search and rescue, logistic support for the Army and Navy i.e. fixed wing and rotar transport, anti-submarine/search and rescue choppers for the Navy.

Now weather the savings from scrapping fighters is passed on to those areas as promised is another issue but I still think it was the best idea given the resources available.

Can you really compare NZ to small european countries ? Who will attack us and why would they want to ?
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:37 pm

Pacific if you live in New Zealand then you would know the backlash the goverment got about the scrapping of the combat force.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:18 pm

KD - the govt. gets a 'backlash' for every change it makes. You insinuated you had facts to show the majority were against this move. Do you have numbers or just an opinion ?

I know plenty of people in the RNZAF, RNZN and Army who thought it was the right move, providing the money is spent on some other airforce equipment.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:07 am

my parents listen to talkback radio and for months every second caller complain about the scrapping the Skyhawks and Macchis, I heard some of those people.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:37 pm

Talk-back radio dave, that's what you base public opinion on ? Those people also think Winston Peters is a genius and Rob Muldoon a saint !
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
L-188
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:51 pm

Those Skyhawks had been bought and paid foryears

How much money are you going to save by disposing of a paid for asset???



Maybe Gene Roddenberry is right, and this is the start of New Zealand turning into the planets penal colony.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:55 pm

the tv channels also did polls before the decision was made, 70% of people polled wanted the combat force to stay
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:03 pm

L-188 you know as well as I do that the purchase price of those planes was not the issue, rather it was the cost of keeping them flying and maintaining the infrastructure to do so. Those are the costs that are being saved and I am pretty sure you know that.

KD - Polls are next to useless. Yes, 70% may have wanted them retained but if you also asked them if they were willing to pay more tax or accept cut backs in other services to do so they would have said no. The public are pig-ignorant and short-sighted about most things, governments can't afford to be.

No one has yet said what enemies these planes were defending against and how well they would have done so. Let's get 3 or 4 Nuclear aircraft carriers while we are at it to make sure NZ is really safe.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
L-188
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:07 pm

Yes, there is a cost for each flying hours.

But a Skyhawk is one of least expensive aircraft around.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:34 pm

The war on terisom comes to mind if the war was to take place in this part of the world
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Fri Nov 22, 2002 10:09 pm

OK KD 'The war on terrorism', now explain how 18 odd skyhawks 10 of which were based in Australia anyway would help in that situation.

Please don't get me wrong as I am all for NZ forces having more capability but we have to be realistic about our ability to pay for all this stuff. On a limited budget priorties need to be set and I agree with the government that fighters are a low one in NZ's case given thier cost relative to perceived threats and desired military abilities.

Time will tell if savings are returned in better funding of other defence areas but the recent announcement of upgrading and replacing of transport/heavy lift capabilities is a start don't you think.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:42 am

first of there were only 6 aircraft based in Aussie.

there would have been 18 more aircraft if the RNZAF sent the skyhawks granted they may have only been able to operate duing the day but its better than nothing.

I agree that the upgrading is better than nothing which I implied when I started this thread.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:44 pm

Kiwidave - Saw reorts of 6 potential buyers for ex-RNZAF jet fleet. Any ideas about who these might be ?
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:15 pm

the only ones that I know of is the Canadians and Brazil I'm guessing that the public won't know till the deal has been made but even then we may not be told.
 
L-188
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:20 pm

Why would the Canadians have any interest in used Skyhawks????

I thought they had been sold to Singapore.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 28, 2002 6:19 am

According to US sources these A4s are the most advance in the world being refered to slow F-16s, I was under the impression that Canada would use them in martime strike roles it would ease US concerns about who get these A4s, this is what I read in the avaition mags in NZ
 
L-188
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 28, 2002 11:28 am

I don't see the Canadians getting them.

Especially when you consider that just a year ago they where talking about mothballing part of their F-18 fleet

Why introduce an old type, when you have a common more capable type allready in service.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
LY744
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 28, 2002 11:53 am

We've been trying to get a naval chopper for over a decade and have recently dumped the T-33, trust me, there are no A-4's in the RCAF's future.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
L-188
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:04 pm

You have to wonder how many EH-101's 500 million candian would have bought.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
LY744
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RE: Rnzaf "upgrade"

Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:01 pm

Sorry for the typo in my last reply, it is the (C)T-133 being phased out.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it

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