sleekjet
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:18 am

II Cor. 4:17-18
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:29 am

Guys use them all the time in theatre. The article is BS those pilots have tried to blame everyone (including us in AWACS) for their screw up. Standard fighter mafia protection bullshit. I've read the report, they screwed up.

Go pills are no big deal. We also have no Go pills. I ha ve used them on several occassions for night day swap outs.


Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:39 am

Lt. AWACS: A few questions: Where do the pilots get the pills? Does the upper chain of command look the other way but have full knowledge of this? Uh, isn't this illegal?
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:46 am

The pills are official US military issue. They're prescribed and issued by official military doctors/medical officers.

If the pilots took them when they weren't indicated or in combination with illegal drugs or alcohol, all bets would of course be off.
I wish I were flying
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3261
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:16 am

Go pills are no big deal.

Have you read the side efects of these pills recently? Here they are, I have taken the liberty of highlighting those side-effects you would not want in the cockpit, especially if this cockpit is attached to a fighter/bomber!:


http://campbell9.com/BRASSv1_1/TrainingRoomPages/MedicationsQuickRef.html


----------------------------
Why is this medication prescribed?
Amphetamines belong to the group of medicines called central nervous system (CNS) stimulants. They are used to treat attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Amphetamines increase attention and decrease restlessness in patients who are overactive, unable to concentrate for very long or are easily distracted, and have unstable emotions. These medicines are used as part of a total treatment program that also includes social, educational, and psychological treatment.

What side effects can this medication cause?
Side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. They include:
More common
- False sense of well-being
- irritability
- nervousness
- restlessness
After these stimulant effects have worn off, drowsiness, trembling, unusual tiredness or weakness, or mental depression may occur.

Less common
- Blurred vision
- constipation; diarrhea
- dizziness or lightheadedness
- dryness of mouth or unpleasant taste
- fast or pounding heartbeat
- headache
- increased - sweating
- loss of appetite
- nausea or vomiting
- stomach cramps or pain
----------------------------


These more common side effects could lead to some trigger-happyness, especially in stressful areas such as over hostile teritory. Less common, but equally anoying, is having blurred vision. Imagine yourself, your nicely flying at 800 km/u and your wingman has difficulty seeing you!

Moreover, these are the normal symptons under normal conditions. They MIGHT be agravated by flying (I am not a docter, nor am I studying medicines so I do not know), just like the effects of alcohol are a lot worse at high altitude!

If a mission takes longer than the effects of this medicines (I do not know how long this medicine work, I do know there are nowadays some very long duration missions!) you get the side-effects of drowsiness and even mental depression!


There is a reason why drugs are banned in civil aviation!
Attamottamotta!
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 9:25 am

Normally you don't use go pills unless you get shot down, or if you have to extend for a very long time for some issue over hostile territory. THe go Pills last about 4 hours. Once again mainly for evasion, normally just fighters get them, no bombers or heavies (exception B-2)

No go pills are for after flying to put your to sleep and re-adjust your sleeping schedule you can't fly for 12/16 hours after taking them (depends on theatre).

All are given out by the flight docs, and the General says use them if you need em in every brief pre-flight. You have to go through a ground trail with them first. It is not like you are using them every flight they are rare.

These goobers are just trying to avoid taking responsibility for their actions, typical.


Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
SWAbubba
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:15 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 03, 2003 9:41 am

The Air Force's physiologists at Brooks AFB have done more research into fatigued flying than anyone in the world, including NASA's Z-team. They have done simulator tests on an enormous number of pilots flying under the influence of various drugs and sleep deprivation, and have 40+ years of operational experience prescribing drugs to pilots. Those who will be taking the pills must first take them on the ground under a doctor's supervision to check for adverse reactions. If there are no adverse reactions then the crewmember is allowed to take them if he or she wants and the mission calls for it. They are prescribed before the mission and the crewmember MAY take them if they start to feel fatigued during the flight. No one is forcing anyone to take anything they don't want to.

The only reason this is news is because a defense lawyer figured he could grab a few headlines along the lines of "USAF drugs their pilots!!!" Apparently he was right. Lt-AWACs called it right, this is not a big deal.

 
bhill
Posts: 1309
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:04 pm

Petertenthije...I fail to see your point..I for one would rather have our warriors on the "pointed end of the arrow" VERY irritated at the enemy..also, from what my father ( A retired E-8 Special Forces soldier with 2 Bronze Stars..with V device) tells me, the "Less Common" effects are typical of any warrior in actual, live combat, without any drugs being ingested...

Regards,

Bob
Carpe Pices
 
Cheshire
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2001 11:48 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:23 pm

I remember a news report after the Gulf war that claimed A-10 pilots were shown hard core pornography before missions as it made them more aggressive. Anyone else heard this?
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:44 am

Unlikely Cheshire. That would really piss off their hosts (pornography is illegal in Saudi I think).
It is of course possible that some pilots had "unofficial" stockpiles of porn mags or videos and they used those for some entertainment  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
I wish I were flying
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 1:47 pm

Yep, Dexedrine is such a good idea, Take a few and tell the officer that you just happen to have a bottle in you pocket and that's why you were driving 107 MPH.

Good for someone flying over my head with live weapons, someone who most likely slept 20 hours in the past week, someone who probably has added rather much alcohol to the mix as well. Oh yea, real smart.

The article I read just today said it was all under the control of flight physicians. Sure it is. LOL.

I've been out there and seen it all. As my late dad said, "don't shit a shitter."
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 5:22 pm

And your point is?
If they take the pills without permission or do things they shouldn't do before or after taking the pills you can't blame the pills for that...
I wish I were flying
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sat Jan 11, 2003 6:08 pm

piedmont that is the most ignorant post I have read in a while.

Go pills are accounted for by number and handed out, after trial by flight docs for mission use only. This is a fact. I have seen it and done in the last few months. It is strictly controlled by the flight docs in theatre.

Also There is no alcohol in Saudi were all the DCA assests fly from and none on most posts in Kuwait where the bomb droppers are. THe beer in oman is on ration cards and no one drinks it pre-flight we can all see that in the compound,

All Air Force pilots must get crew rest. 12 hours of uninterupted rest and 8 of sleep. Of course there are times we fly tired, however crew rest is factored into all missions and planning at ever level. It is the final thing briefed before each mission. I, and many other folks have thrown up the Crew Rest flag if we are unable to fly, and that is not frowned upon. This is why all of us in HVAA assests nad critical mission have alert and backup crews everyday. I know I have sat alert more than enough of the last few months

Go pills are not just popped for fun. They are for evasion #1, and Night Extensions #2. These are the two main uses.

The facts remain these guard guys screwed up and have tried to blame every other level of the kill chain except themselves. The guys screwed up and should face the music.

So don't 'make up the bullshit' with your paranoia. Iti s not the 1960's, it is not Vietnam. Is the system perfect, no, is it like you describe, NO.

and yes Jwenting, Porn is very illegal in Saudi and so is punishment for it.

Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
Hamfist
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:40 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:38 am

Piedmont,

I second LtAwacs response. My job doesn't require them, but I've been around them on a few occasions and I know the AF's crew rest system pretty well.

I'm not sure what your motives are to post such crap, but nobody in this forum benefits from such blatant cynicism. If you have an axe to grind with the military, that's your own problem. The military system isn't perfect, but it's in the hands of leaders who are far more professional than almost every leader you will find in the civilian world. Decisions about drugs used by those flying combat missions are very carefully considered before implementation!
 
raaf_mirage
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 9:18 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:41 am

Has anyone read "Team Tornado" by RAF Flt Lt's John Peters and John Nichol ?

While stationed in the Gulf they took 'no go pills' after night bombing missions.
They got back to their hotel room, dropped one each and were sitting around for ten minutes both thinking they hadn't/weren't going to work......

The two were chatting and the pilot observed his nav falling into a sudden deep sleep mid sentence. "John these things are crap, they're not going to .........zzzzzzz"

The pilot then falls sleep a few seconds later and wakes up eight hours later with lights and tv blaring.....

Quite freaky IMO.
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:09 am

Haven't read the book but I will look into it for my next trips reading.

No Go Pills for the USAF are usually Ambian which is a sleeping pill (you can only take 10 per 30 days and must log each one). For some folks it works fast for others it takes a while. For me 10 miligrams is enough for a decent sleep when transitioning from day/night flights. You cannot fly for 16 hours after taking NO-GOs. (12 hours in some theatres)

Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:57 pm

And Lt AWACS claims to be in the military? Take a drug to keep you wired and then one to let you sleep. Yeah sure. You are as smart as the tombstone you will soon be under kiddo.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Hamfist
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:40 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Sun Jan 12, 2003 1:55 pm

Piedmont,

Dude, you've got some issues to work out. Not sure who pissed your Wheaties, but you might want to get somebody to help you leave some things behind so you might actually enjoy a day every now & then.

Good luck
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Mon Jan 13, 2003 1:04 am

Hey piedmont, look kid I realise you have some issues and I can understand that, maybe your ex vietnam commando father didn't buy you enough toys or something. But instead of looking at facts you post this conspiracy Bulls##t from late night radio like art bell. Give me break kid. Go colour your anarchy bible or what ever it is you boys do.

You don't have a clue as you are not inthe military, and apparently never have been. So go post in the civil forum on 'contrails and the goverment' or 'UFOs in roswell'.

You cannot take Go Pills and No go pills together, it is forbidden, If you had a clue you would know Ambian is a frequently prescribed sleeping pill and the fact the AF uses it is not that big a deal. The Go pills that fighters use are not popped every day like candy, they are controlled and used in certain situations. You also do not know the rules on crew rest Try AFI 48-123 the flight surgeons 'Bible'.

What is that noise Piedmont "Choo choo" that is the clue train all aboard!


Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Lt-AWACS, your teacher
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
FredT
Posts: 2166
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:51 pm

RE: AF Pilots On "Go Pills"?

Tue Jan 14, 2003 9:06 pm

Could anyone point me to an account of what really happened? Did they screw up? Can we know if they did? Friendly fire accidents WILL happen if you send people off to war, we're not machines. We make mistakes. We must be allowed to make mistakes. In war, mistakes can mean dead people. If a mistake can mean dead people, this must be realised and thought an acceptable risk before sending anybody off at all.

Further, if you push people too far, the mistakes will happen more frequently. Perhaps drugs will mean less mistakes. That's up to the people higher in the command chain to decide. "Voluntary"? Like hell it is, if you're asked to stay awake and focused beyond what you're capable of and told to take pills if you can't handle it without them, whoever gave the order is responsible for the pills being taken and mistakes resulting from the pressure on the guy in the air. Tell someone to stay awake for a year and watch something, but that they're free to take a nap every now and then - but have them sign a form saying that any naps are voluntary and their responsibility. Good idea? Same bloody thing...

Poor sods on the ground, either way.  Sad

Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.

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