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Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:14 am

I was wondering which of these two planes is superior in the air superioty role.I know both planes have a similar design layout and similar weapon platforms, that being, which one appears to be the main air superiorty fighter for the russian air force.I've heard the mig-29 has not performed very well in some conflicts with westeren fighters and lost to su-27's in an African conflict a few years ago.Just wanted some information on the subject,thanks.
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:04 am


The Su-27 and MiG-29 was designed to meet the same specification set by the Russian air force in the late 1960s early 70s. The Su-27 design was eventually chosen, but then the MiG company suggested that the Russian airforce build both fighters - the Su-27 as a long-range air superiority fighter (like the F-15) and the MiG-29 as a short range fighter (like the F-16) and this was accepted by the Russian air force. The Su-27 has several advantages in long range engagements like more missiles and more powerful radar. In close however the MiG might be more agile (although the Su-27 is pretty agile too). If they were to meet head-on I would say that it would be down to which pilot was the best (I'm not sure if the battle in Africa was at close range or at long range).

It is true that the MiG-29 has not done well against western fighters in actual combat (1991 gulf war and the 1999 Kosovo bombings), but in both cases the MiG-29 was massively outnumbered and the quality of the pilots might not have been as high as the western pilots.
In mock combat during peacetime the western pilots have reported that the MiG-29 can be a handful in close range dogfights if it has a skilled pilot (even more so if the pilot can use the helmet mounted tageting system).

As to which plane is the main air superiority fighter for the Russian air force, I would say the Su-27, whereas the MiG-29 is used more for airfield defense and defense of other high value ground targets.

This is done from memory, so any additions and/or corrections will be welcome  Smile

Søren Augustesen
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:43 am

I doubt Su27 and Mig29 were developed for the sme requirements.

SU27 is a large fighter F15/F14 class. MIG29 more F16/F18 class.

Mig29 is more front line fighter, can operate from grass strips .. SU27 a air superiority fighter ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:07 am


According to the book "Su-27 Flanker Story" written by Andrei Fomin (ISBN: 5-93511-003-2), the Su-27 and the MiG-29 were both put forward to meet the same design specification set forward by the Russian leaders.
However the requirements set forward was so different that non of the planes that were proposed could meet all the demands. And so the MiG company suggested that instead of just building one fighter that could not meet all the demands, they should build two different planes that together could meet most if not all the demands.
This was accepted by the Russian leaders, and therefore both the Su-27 and MiG-29 was build.

Regards Søren Augustesen
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:21 am

I think the analogy between the F-15/F-14 and the F-16/F-18 is appropriate.

Two date there are only three known air to air Kills by the Mig-29.

One was an Iraqi Mig that shot down his wingman during the gulf war and then crashed in the desert after becoming disorented by the missle flash.

The other two where by Cuban Air Force when they shot down to Cessna Skymasters that where hanging around in their airspace.

There are some kids in Serbia who up a website claiming that the Migs got kills on NATO aircraft in the Balkins but this is mostly bunk and wishful thinking.
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:19 pm

Russian design philosophies held that the Su-27 was to be the counter air/ air dominance fighter conducting long range sweeps and the MiG-29 would be the local air superiority fighter ie- air cover over the battlefield, whilst operating from FOL's. It's been said (jokingly) it was designed with enough internal fuel to defend the airfield's perimeter, and that's about it. Also, it's been interesting to note that the Russian Navy's had an interesting time choosing between the MiG-29 and Su-27 too.
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:34 pm

Since when did Cuba started flying MiG-29? I thought they use MiG-23/27.
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:08 pm

Cuba does indeed have MiG-29's (and the "honor" of having accounted for their first operational "kill").

Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:50 pm

A bit off topic but is the SU-37 in frontline service or is it still undergoing flight testing??? The SU-37 would be an awesome adversary in a dogfight with it's thrust vectoring capability!
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RE: Mig-29compared To Su-27.

Wed Mar 19, 2003 9:08 pm

I'm pretty sure the Su-37 is still being "tested" (due to lack of funds of course), even though technically the a/c may belong to the RuAF.

Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it

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