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keesje
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What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy?

Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:32 pm

Rumours are that they will be transferred to the German Navy. Earlier on their were plans to form a combined German/Dutch MPA squadron.



Anybody know when they will be retired and where they will go ?

http://home.planet.nl/~rslyf/Orions/orion.htm
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
schreiner
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy?

Sat Aug 30, 2003 8:20 pm

I´m gonna miss those smokey Orions...

I think it´s a bunch of crap that the gov retired these a/c´s... why not retire some F16´s; they only are in use for making some photo´s... and if they do, they cannot find the film afterwards...
Soaring the internet...
 
jwenting
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy?

Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:45 pm

I doubt the Germans will want them, they're also scaling back (albeit not as quickly) and currently operate no Orions.
Norway is a more likely customer, as they operate the type in an older version (P-3B) and could use them to upgrade their fleet.
Norway is also buying the M-109 Paladin SP Howitzers which are on order for the Dutch army (and will be resold to Norway without ever being put into service here).

Schreiner, they're retiring F-16s too. And Apaches, and 4 frigates, and... and...
If the current pace goes on we will have no armed forces left in 10 years at most.

The cuts so far (without these ones) have been about 60% in 10 years. On top of that we will now see another 30% cut in 2 years.
I wish I were flying
 
Contact_tower
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy?

Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:29 am

"as they operate the type in an older version (P-3B)" Nope! 333Sqn have 4 UIP upgraded P-3C and 2 P-3N (The "N" is a transport/crew trainer/coastguard version, a "B" with some upgrades and the mission equipment thrown out)

"Norway is also buying the M-109 Paladin SP Howitzers"

Are they not really Panzerhaubitze 2000 from Germany? (According to Millitaer Teknikk, a Nordic MIL magazine) The army have not bought them, but might! They still need not get the funding. (Still old 109's ratteling down the road here on a weekly basis)

I noticed you have mentioned the artillery earlier, thought I should pick on you this time.....  Big thumbs up
 
jwenting
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy?

Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:06 pm

I think they're Paladins. Last I heard about Dutch artillery upgrades that was the almost certain winner of the competition.
But plans change so it could indeed be the German one instead.
It is of course also possible that Norway was considering the German equipment but got an offer they could not refuse from the Dutch government for 60 never used Paladins. Offered probably at 50% or so new value direct from the factory.
I wish I were flying
 
Contact_tower
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy?

Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:22 am

Actually I know for a fact that they are not 109's. The article I have is about modernization of norwegian artillery, and it's clear about this point.
It's basically says it's a convenient that the army's most favoured system (PH2000) is up for grabs at a reduced price. The intire thing allso coincides with a joint procurement program for other types of material.
 
columba
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:33 am

Hi,

can anybody tell me about the status of the Dutch P-3 Orions. How long will they still fly in "Dutch Colors" and when will the first aircraft be delievered to the German Navy. As much as I know the first Marine crews from Nordholz are now in Valkenburg for crew training.
As much as I am sorry for our Dutch aircraft fans for loosing that great bird I am glad to see that the German Navy will get these "new" aircraft.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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N328KF
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:40 am

I'd be surprised if they went to Germany. Germany is in the process of trialing (and will likely eventually order) marine versions of the RQ-4 Global Hawk, referred to as Euro Hawk. These will replace many of their P-3s.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
columba
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:49 am

@N328KF

The deal is set. It was signed last fall. Germany will buy 8 P-3 Orions from the Netherlands to replace the old Breguets Atlantics in the MPA role.
Euro Hawk is meant to be a replacement for the SIGINT Atlantics, which will fly at least till 2008. The order for the Eur Hawk -like you already said- is not certain, yet, but very likely.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
dl021
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:12 am

In addition to the 8 being sold to the Germans, Portugal was reported as purchasing 5 as well. That would account for all the P-3's in the RNLN inventory.

The loss of the P-3 will leave only one fixed wing aircraft left flying in RNLN colors....a PBY-5A that has been in the hangar at Valkenburg
http://www.ruudleeuw.com/phpby.htm
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
greaser
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy?

Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:58 pm

DL021, any plans by the dutch to look into the 737MMA program?? Or is this a permernant scale-down??
Now you're really flying
 
Contact_tower
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:05 am

RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:13 am

The Dutch are scrapping the MPA game completely.
 
NoUFO
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 am

The Orions will be transferred to Germany from autumn 2005 on. The last of the eight P3c will arrive at Nordholz in spring 2006.
(Source: Bundeswehr.de)

As for the PzH 2000: according to Krauss-Maffei-Wegmann, The Netherlands will procure 57 systems. (Germany: 185, Greece: 24, Italy: 70, no words on Norway).
I support the right to arm bears
 
dl021
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RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:04 pm

Greaser....as stated previously the Dutch are budget cutting their MPA program completely.

They will be saving the money to spend on the F-35 project as well as a few other key projects. They seem to be willing to sacrifice having a mechanized force, as well as a fully equipped navy for the RNLAF as well as a mobile army.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1501
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: What Will Happen To Dutch Orions , German Navy

Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:51 am

Greaser....as stated previously the Dutch are budget cutting their MPA program completely.

Yup, for now. Some tasks of the Orions are being taken over by 2 modified Fokker 60's. These Fokkers will operate from Curacao on anti-drugs flights. They will have more radar equipment as well as more fuel capacity.

However, word is that the Air Force is already complaining that it's short on short-haul transport capacity and that they can't miss those 2 Fokker 60's.

The commission of defense in the Dutch parliament has asked the minister if this is true and will probably demand him to look in to this. This has fueled rumors that the RNLAF is considering buying adapted Gulfstreams for 334 squadron, based at Eindhoven.
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