BarfBag
Topic Author
Posts: 2384
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:13 am

Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:26 pm

Every year, on October 8th the Indian Air Force celebrates its Air Force Day. This year's event was preceded by the public display of the IAFs latest toys - the IL-78 in-flight refuelling (IFR) tankers. Six of these are being inducted by the IAF in the first batch, and the IAF is likely to order at least another 6 soon. Each IL-78 has three refuelling drogues, two off the wingtip area and one from the aft section.

Of the IAF inventory, the Su-30MK-1/MKI, the Jaguar and the Mirage 2000-5 are equipped for IFR, while the MiG-29s are in the process of being upgraded. An MKI can stay aloft for more than 10 hours with IFR support, and has an effective range of 8000km(5000 miles). The tankers will entail a significant change in IAF operational doctrines, with a greater emphasis on strategic operation than tactical ones, since the average sortie duration is likely to increase manifold.

Air Force Chief Krishnaswamy also stated on the sidelines of the AF day celebrations that the first limited series batch of the LCA will be inducted in 2006-07. This batch will be equipped with the GE-404 engine and will use the Russian Kopyo radar. They will later be retrofitted with the indigenous Kaveri turbofan engine and the MMR radars, in a manner similar to the MK -> MKI transition of the Su-30. Subsequent batches of LCAs starting in late 2007 will come with the Kaveri and MMR by default. The LCA will be IFR-ready from the inception.

Pics of the IL-78s (note the new light grey coloring scheme on IAF aircraft):
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Current/Misc/AAR01.jpg
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Current/Misc/AAR02.jpg
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:49 pm

Barfbag,

Do you know who manufactures the the refuelling pods?
 
BarfBag
Topic Author
Posts: 2384
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Wed Oct 08, 2003 4:21 pm

AFAIK, they have the Russian standard UPAZ units. That's what the Russians have, according to the site below, and the IAF IL-78Ms most likely have the same.
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/airwing/aircraft/mainstay.htm
 
IndianFlyboy
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:58 pm

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:54 am

Hey Barfbag ,

Did you get to go to the AF day parade , had one of my course mates leading one contingent , poor soul  Laugh out loud . This is one of the few good ideas the IAF seems to have implemented , the phalcon is the next good one , but it is being implemented so bloody slowly.

Regards
 
BarfBag
Topic Author
Posts: 2384
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:05 pm

IndianFlyBoy: Unfortunately no. Its a tad difficult to attend the show when I'm 13000km away from New Delhi, as I am right now  Smile However if you happen to go to Palam, do take your camera along!

Regarding the Phalcons, India and Israel are busy nitpicking over the platform. The IAF wants to use one of their existing IL-76s since its a tried and tested aircraft, while the Israelis want to use something of their choice, possibly even a Boeing 707. That would be a rather bad idea. In any case, it should be sorted out soon.

I'm really heartened to hear about ACM Krishnaswamy enunciate a block-based induction of the LCA, with LCA-Block 10 involving GE-404 + Kopyo, and Block 20 probably Kaveri+MMR. A far better approach than the all-or-nothing GSQRs made by the forces.
 
GDB
Posts: 12679
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:03 am

Any plans to re-engine them with newer Russian engines as is starting to happen in Russia?
I note the original position for the rear gunner and the 23mm cannon is still there, less the guns, is the drouge operator in that position now?
Certainly aid refueling if he is.
 
BarfBag
Topic Author
Posts: 2384
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:46 am

Any plans to re-engine them with newer Russian engines as is starting to happen in Russia?

No idea. The IAF IL-78Ms were acquired from Uzbekistan, not Russia. They've been around in the IAF since March this year, conducting long-range ops between fortress bases on the mainland (Pune/Gwalior/Agra) and Andaman/Nicobar base, roughly 2000kms one way. The IAF is very pleased with them, it seems, and more are likely to be ordered.

I note the original position for the rear gunner and the 23mm cannon is still there, less the guns, is the drouge operator in that position now?

That's right.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:25 am

One airforce guy (was it the air chief?) was boasting on Televisiont hat Sukhoi-30's recently flew a 10 hour non-stop mission form the Lohegaon airbase in Pune (thats 2 kms from my place!) all the way to Car Nicobar! Thas one helluva flight!

Meanwhile I hear the Sukhoi's are being transferred out of Pune because the airforce is miffed with the authorities for allowing construction activity close to the airbase. Sad day for us really!

-Roy
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:28 pm

The Israeli's really need to mount that Phalcon radar on a modern platform, Say a 757-300.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:55 pm

I think the platform has to be decided by the operator. India should not go in for American made aircraft as a platform, or atleast seek to reduce the percentage of US made components critical to operations. The Americans are exactly trustworthy defnse partners, adn over dependence will result in the IAF being vulnerable to US sanctions. Remeber how the British ebhaved after the peaceful Nuclear tests of 1998 which resulted in the grounding of the Sea Hawks and Harrier Jump Jets? Dont need a repeat of that!

it would be better to go with a proven Il-76 platform which is already in service with IAF. This reduces the dependence to a minimum. Indian scientists who have been working on an indegenous system in any case can get a peek at the insides of the Israeli systems and then re-engineer them so they can be produced locally.

This will ensure that American sanctions, even if they coime will only be of nuisance value and no more. They should not affect our strategic capabilities.

-Roy
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:55 pm

I think the platform has to be decided by the operator. India should not go in for American made aircraft as a platform, or atleast seek to reduce the percentage of US made components critical to operations. The Americans arent exactly trustworthy defnse partners, adn over dependence will result in the IAF being vulnerable to US sanctions. Remeber how the British ebhaved after the peaceful Nuclear tests of 1998 which resulted in the grounding of the Sea Hawks and Harrier Jump Jets? Dont need a repeat of that!

it would be better to go with a proven Il-76 platform which is already in service with IAF. This reduces the dependence to a minimum. Indian scientists who have been working on an indegenous system in any case can get a peek at the insides of the Israeli systems and then re-engineer them so they can be produced locally.

This will ensure that American sanctions, even if they coime will only be of nuisance value and no more. They should not affect our strategic capabilities.

-Roy
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:21 pm

I wonder if the IL-76 is a bit too "stubby" for the full Phalcon installation.

That is why I suggested the longer body aircraft.

As far as trust worthy.

You guys brought those sanctions down on yourselves.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:23 pm

Besides if you are so worried about sanctions from the US and Britian, why did you guys stop development of that HS 748 based platform?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BarfBag
Topic Author
Posts: 2384
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:28 pm

I wonder if the IL-76 is a bit too "stubby" for the full Phalcon installation.

It was successfully installed on an IL-76 as part of an aborted Chinese order, which the US had forced Israel to cancel.

You guys brought those sanctions down on yourselves.

Face it, those sanctions were a joke, and every attempt to impose sanctions on India have merely resulted in our developing the technologies indigenously. At the most, they appealed to Clinton's bleeding heart. Our nuclear program has been around 4 decades, no matter how much the P-5 may wish to bury their heads in the sand and decide they're the only ones whose nukes are 'legitimate'.

Besides if you are so worried about sanctions from the US and Britian, why did you guys stop development of that HS 748 based platform?

The Avro is terribly dated. We did have an indigenous eye-in-the-sky program built on an Avro platform, with a rotodome et al. But the thing crashed during tests, and most of the chief scientists happened to be on the plane at the time, and they were all killed. Extremely stupid thing to have done, and we paid for it.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:36 pm

Well you kill of most of the people that where working on it, I guess the program is going to wither on the vine.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BarfBag
Topic Author
Posts: 2384
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:13 am

RE: Indian Air Force News (IFR Tankers, LCA)

Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:55 pm

Well well well... talk about the devil and the devil is here:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_411291,00050002.htm
India, Israel, Russia sign Phalcon radar deal
Associated Press
New Delhi, October 10

India, Israel and Russia on Friday signed an agreement for the $1 billion sale of Phalcon airborne early warning systems to India, a defence official told The Associated Press.

The advanced Israeli-made Phalcon radar systems are to be fitted on converted Russian-made Ilyushin transport plane that India will purchase from Moscow.

...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos