lehpron
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Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:40 pm

I was thinking, all this recent talk to sonic bizjets that have to be small and able to fly sonically without a boom which are likely shaped differently that we are used to just to enable that kind of acceptance, why not create some outlandish design so when it passes sound it drags a wave that is maximized for absolute destruction?

That way there is no use of munitions or armament or significant mass loss due to dropping bombs or flying low like an attack plane -- little if any loss of pilot.

Just fly subsonically to target zone, accelerate and fly over target and then decelerate while leaving, how easy is that? I know it is not that easy, but what do you think? No need of real bombs or opening of bay doors to comprimise stealth, just violent pressure waves.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
2912n
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Sun Nov 23, 2003 2:00 pm

Yes, perhaps an effective area weapon, but you destroy all in your path. The idea, especially now, is to limit collateral damage. This would be totally indescriminate...

Plus, what would it actually destroy? A non focused sonic boom would shatter windows, perhaps damage computers...but won't take down a solid building...
 
Alessandro
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:12 am

I think IAF does that when they do their wild weasel runs over Lebanon...
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Spacepope
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:23 am

Another advantage is that going supersonic at 200 feet (probably minimum safe altitude) will make it nearly impossible to be shot down. By the time they hear you, you're gone over the next hill. On the downside, fuel consumption would be tremendous for this mostly psychological operation. The U.S. started doing this with low flying F-16s after the most recent helicopter shoot-downs in Iraq.

This was proposed to be part of the flight profile for the Project Pluto nuclear ramjet cruise missile back in the 50s. Once it dropped its 16 nukes, it was to cruise over enemy territory for up to 3 months at mach 3 and low altitude. The sonic boom was to demoralize any survivors, and the radiation plse from the unshielded engine (not the radioactive exhaust) would do lots of damage.

T.J.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
2912n
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:41 am

As a psych. weapon high speed/low altitude passes can be very effective, witness the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds "sneak" pass where they scare the hell out of the crowd who is not expecting it...

 
lehpron
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:08 am

well the idea og Pentagon's QSP was to spread out the wave, I am sure there could be a way to focus it like a tornado path, so to speak.

Even if it just breaks glass or computer moniters, in the information age, isn't that hella bad?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
bobrayner
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:38 am

It has actually been used, in the real world.

Back in 1977 there was a hostage crisis... terrorists and hostages on a train. a pair of F-104s performed a low, supersonic overflight; this apparently disoriented/stunned the terrorists (and presumably broke a few of the train's windows), at which point the counterterrorist troops attacked.
Cunning linguist
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:52 am

Interesting tale there Bobrayner...I'd be curious to read more about this...is there anyplace online that tells the story in a bit more detail???

Greg
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L-188
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:58 am

Yeha Bob, come up with some more details.

Interesting tactic.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
bobrayner
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:37 pm

These?

http://militarynet.free-host.com/drenthe1977/drenthe1977.htm (nl)
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/bbe.htm (en)
Google doesn't reveal much more detail, and I'm too young to remember seeing this in newspapers!


[Edited 2003-11-24 04:39:02]
Cunning linguist
 
2912n
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:42 pm

That is a function that is now done with stun or flashbang grenades. Good concept, but difficult to employ from an airplane. (Timing etc is hard enough on a tactical mission like that.)

There has been talk of developing sound weapons that create sounds that in certain ranges will make people ill or disoriented but are non leathal. More for use in crowd control type situations as opposed to military attacks.
 
FBU 4EVER!
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:02 pm

During the 60's,70's and 80's,there were almost constantly Soviet "trawlers" ostensibly fishing in international waters very close to the Norwegian coast,very close to military installations.These trawlers bristled with antennas for electronic listening devices.A favorite trick of the F-104's of 331 Squadron was to do supersonic passes at the ships after which the ships quietly left the scene with practically all their radio tubes and valves having been broken due to the sonic boom.Fun!
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
L-188
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:26 pm

Boy to bad solid state technology had to come along and ruin the Norwegians fun  Laugh out loud
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
FBU 4EVER!
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:09 pm

Yup!
Life was not the same after that Laugh out loud
By that time,334 Sqn had received Canadian built CF-104's,and these had been equipped with anti-shipping missiles and were tasked with surveillance of the "trawlers" while 331 went on with their air-to-air role.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
FredT
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:10 pm

Yeah, great idea. ”Unless you demobilise your armed forces we’ll... we’ll... we’ll rattle your windows REAL BAD!”

Now there’s a weapon to end all wars.

A sonic boom is about as destructive as a big thunder clap. You’ll have to be real close to get a monitor damaged.

“Another advantage is that going supersonic at 200 feet (probably minimum safe altitude) will make it nearly impossible to be shot down. By the time they hear you, you're gone over the next hill.”

Radar...

Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
lehpron
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:24 am

Radar does not work properly to identify targets at low altitudes that can be mistaken as mountains, trees, hills, or even flocks of bird, despite the speed of the target. It is bad for a plane to be that low, they can be targeted easily, maintaining that lock is another story.

C'mon FredT have you not read the QSP report? Shape and size changes the boom, dramatically, PERIOD. Obviously now the goal is to make a bizjet that will do 1000 knots overland without incident, but it should be possible to reverse that approach to forcibly create a large boom from an outlandishly shaped vehicle (that likely will have tremendous drag consequently) that will do the same job as a carpet-bomber without wasting weapons (that can otherwise be used in precision strikes provided they had the homing attachment up front, otherwise they are just gravity bombs).

You just have no faith when it comes to sonics, huh?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy What's your specialization in AE?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
L.1011
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:24 pm

Well I think its an incedibly cool idea. Our military should always be thinking outside the box and adding the latest technology.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:19 pm

The Indian Air Force used MiG-25 Foxbats from the old Trisonics reconnaissance squadron to do high-altitude overflights over Pakistan at >Mach 2.5 on a few occasions over the years, not as an explicit weapon but good old 'catch us if you can' psychological warfare.

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/FOXB.HTM
http://users.senet.com.au/~wingman/recce1.html

The Foxbats have since been retired and mil-sats are now used.
 
JeffM
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:18 pm

The record for low altitude, high speed flight....:

1961 August 28 world speed record for three kilometers at less than 100meters altitude, 907.769 mph at Holloman AFB Lt. Huntington Hardisty USN, pilot and Lt. Earl H. DeEsch USN, RIO.

Impossible to shoot down something going that fast? "Sea Wiz".... easy....
 
Spacepope
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RE: Using Sonic Boom To Create Destruction?

Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:40 am

I'm assuming that was in a F4H1 or some other PhantomII derivative? I think the first 11 were used for record breaking attempts.
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