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HAWK21M
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Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:01 pm

What is the Ranking of the largest Airforces in the World in terms of Aircraft.
regds
HAWK
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L-188
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:11 pm

I think for years it was the PLAAF.

But a lot of those airframes where decidedly dated.
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Guest

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:51 am

PLAFF?

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Chris
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:16 am

People's Liberation Army Air Force. You know, China?
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LMP737
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:18 am

On the subject "dated" airframes I once heard the Chinese version of the MIG-21 described as the "most hightly refined obsolete fighter in the world."
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
jwenting
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:19 am

PLAAF is still the largest.
Soviet used to be second, and might still be.
US is probably third (maybe second now, if they haven't cut back faster than the Russkies).
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L-188
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:37 pm

LMP737

There is something to be said for simple reliable equiptment, especially if you can get large numbers of them fielded.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:47 am

What is the main attack jet in the Chinese Airforce?

Regards..

Chris
 
bobrayner
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:20 am

What is the main attack jet in the Chinese Airforce?

The Fantan.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/plaaf-equip.htm
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jutes85
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:06 pm

You would think that Germany or Britian will be up there.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:58 pm

I think that increasingly the Flanker is replacing the Fantan in that role though, Bobrayner
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jwenting
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:48 am

Jutes, the US, Russian and Chinese airforces have more aircraft of several types each than the Germans and British have in their total inventory  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:12 am

Yes but how well trained are these Chinese or Russian Pilot's in their Mig's? How would they do in a dog-fight against a British-trained RAF pilot in a Tornado or a American pilot in a USAF F-16? It's a case of quality vs quantity.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
jutes85
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:55 am

Yes but how well trained are these Chinese or Russian Pilot's in their Mig's

Trained enough to know how to take out a British-trained RAF pilot.

But I'm not sure about a USAF or Israeli pilot.  Laugh out loud
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L-188
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:06 pm

Actually the flying skills of PLAAF pilots are so fine tuned, that they never accidently get themselves killed by colliding with EP-3 Orions.

A little less carelessness on the PLAAF pilot that died and the incident would never have happened.
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jwenting
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:57 pm

In case you forgot, quantity usually wins over quality if the numeric advantage is big enough.

That's the whole idea of the human wave attack which worked decently well in Korea and WW1, as well as in WW2 on the eastern front.

The only reason the bombing of Germany in WW2 worked was because the allies had a huge numerical advantage and could afford (though barely at some times) to loose 20% or more of the bombers on any given mission.

The Chinese have always fought the same way. If the US were to fight them in Asia there would be a hundred or more Chinese aircraft for every single American one.
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L-188
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:02 pm

You are correct to a point Jwenting.

But even superior numbers can be overcome with determination. That is why the Chinese offensive in Korea eventually stalled and they where forced back.

But you have to be willing to suffer massive losses.

That being said, also it should be noted that the PLAAF has in recent years tried to upgrade it's equiptment, as we have seen with their purchases of SU-27 aircraft.

They also seem to be shifting from a quanity to a quality stratigy.
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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:03 pm

Trained enough to know how to take out a British-trained RAF pilot.

Based on what? Facts or your opinion?


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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:33 pm

Where does the IAF [Indian Air force] rank.
regds
HAWK
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IndianGuy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:38 pm

According to Indian Defense Review: India had the 3rd largest army, 4th largest airforce and 5th largest Navy.

If only volunteer-based country's are included, then we have the largest in all 3, since India does not have compulsory military service.

-Roy
 
jutes85
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:07 am

Based on what? Facts or your opinion?

I was just kidding.  Big grin
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L.1011
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:59 pm

Well according to the Cambridge Factfinder,

Combat Aircraft Rankings:

1. United States of America: 4,114
2. People's Republic of China: 4,107
3. Russian Federation: 3,180
4. Ukraine: 970
5. India: 849

So, Indianguy is shockingly wrong.

In terms of troops, the USAF has 370,300 men, India has 140,000. We have no draft, so Indianguy is shockingly wrong.

In terms of the Army, Indianguy is right, although the US Army would win in any battle with any nation, because we are more technologically advanced.

In terms of the Navy, Indianguy is wayyy off. The USN has 551,900 troops. The IN has 55,000. The IN has 44 submarines and large ships, the USN has 212.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:43 pm

Mr. l1011: I did not claim it was my opinion. Merely repeating what I have read from the Indian Defense Review, a magazine published yearly. The same info s also published n the Manorama Year Book.

Also just number of staff isnt enough to compare. Shouldnt you take into account number of surface and sub-surface combatant units for the navy? And Combat aircraft for the AF?

As for the US being unbeatable, I am not contesting that! The Germans also were unbeatable in 1940.

Cheers.

Roy
 
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:47 pm

As for the US being unbeatable, I am not contesting that! The Germans also were unbeatable in 1940.


Geeze, I wish I had a wav file of George C. Scotts opening speech from "Patton". It would sooo fit with that comment.

Now that being said, I personally feel that the US made a mistake from going from 18 Active Army divisions to the 10 we hae today. I think at least three of those need to be reinstated, with the appropriate personal gains.

I also think that there is way too much emphasis on "force Multipliers". Which is one of the reasons the us military is understaffed.



Lucky for the US, Pakistan is going to be keeping India occupied for quite some time  Big thumbs up

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BarfBag
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:15 am

Lucky for the US, Pakistan is going to be keeping India occupied for quite some time

No kidding ? They must be really trying hard. I mean, all those nukes they sent out Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and North Korea surely couldn't have been meant for any other purpose than keeping us occupied eh ?  Big grin

The last time they picked on us they lost half their country, a third of their army (as POWs) and most of their navy in twelve daysBig grin
 
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:03 pm

It's a question of priorities, Barfbag.
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IndianFlyboy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:00 am

L1011, The figures you got seem to be outdated more like 1994-95 figures . The Indian army has a strength of roughly 1.1 million.As far as the air force goes , as of 2003 figures are a total of 1100 combat aircraft, transport aircrafts and helicopters which makes it the 4th largest air force in the world. The Indian Air Force has a strength of 180,000 as well which is in line with the number of aircrafts it has . If you have 4 times the number of aircrafts , you would roughly require 4 times the number of men as well so no point comparing men in the USAF and the IAF .As far as the navy goes it is the 6th largest (I think) in the world in terms of the number of vessels and personnel.
Lets not go into which army is beatable and unbeatable. Every single army in this world is as vulnerable as the other.

Regards
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:54 pm

No Army,Navy or Airforce is Unbeatable.It all depends on the Situation & the Battle.
I'm sure the Indian defence forces recruit on voluntary basis & not compulsary.
What about the US.
regds
HAWK
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:07 pm

Us military....All volunteer since 73'
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jutes85
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:56 am

although the US Army would win in any battle with any nation, because we are more technologically advanced.

I did not see any victory parades after Vietnam.
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L.1011
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:45 am

I never said "undefeated." Now, however, we are unbeatable.
 
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:55 am

Now, however, we are unbeatable

I would not say, "unbeatable", but definately powerful. But when you spend $380 billion dollar on defence, who would not want to start wars to make use of all that might.

Military Budget - Countries

$ 379 billion (2003) - United States
$48 billion - increase from Fiscal 2002 to 2003

$ 34.8 billion ( 2001 ) - United Kingdom

$ 29 billion ( 2000 ) - Russia

$ 27 billion ( 2000 ) - France

$ 23.1 billion ( 2001 ) - Germany

$ 18.7 billion ( 2000 ) - Saudi Arabia

$ 15.9 billion ( 2000 ) - India

$ 14.5 billion ( 2000 ) - China

$ 12.8 billion ( 2000 ) - South Korea

$ 12.8 billion ( 2000 ) - Taiwan

$ 7.5 billion ( 2000 ) - Iran

$ 3.3 billion ( 2000 ) - Pakistan

$ 1.8 billion ( 2000 ) - Syria

$ 1.4 billion ( 1999 ) - Iraq

$ 1.3 billion ( 2000 ) - North Korea

$ 1.3 billion ( 2000 ) - Yugoslavia

$ 1.2 billion ( 2000 ) - Libya

$ 425 million ( 2000) - Sudan

$ 31 million ( 2000 ) - Cuba



[Edited 2004-02-11 22:57:17]
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L.1011
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:07 am

MILITARY BUDGET AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP.

1. North Korea 27%
2. Saudi Arabia 12.4%
3. Israel 11.5%
4. Oman 10.9%
5. Georgia 10.2%



United States 3.4%, behind Zimbabwe, Vietnam, Singapore, Russia, Democratic Republic of Congo and Bosnia.
 
jutes85
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:55 am

United States 3.4%, behind Zimbabwe, Vietnam, Singapore, Russia, Democratic Republic of Congo and Bosnia.

No shit.

The US makes WAY more money, therefore a bigger military. They could put all of those Billions of dollars to better use.
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BarfBag
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:28 pm

$ 14.5 billion ( 2000 ) - China

The Chinese figure is grossly understated. There's no way they're keeping a force of that size on such peanuts, unless their entire manpower goes unpaid and they fly their jets once a month. Its been estimated by several reputable organizations that their defence budget is ~$60 billion.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:03 pm

Right on BarfBag! I have a clipping old issue of Time Magazine, which shows how the Chinese hide the true spending on their Armed Forces. Also the Armed Forces run commerical businesses (everyhting from Textile Factories to Airlines to Ammunition Factories) which earns them valuable moolah!

Interestingly the Pakistanis also have adapted this chinese concept with their "Fauji Foundation" (Army) and the "Shaheen Foundation" (Air Force), whcihc rake in thousands of crores every year which does not show up in the official defense budgets.

Since the Indian Armed Forces are firmly under the control of the Executive and the Parliament, they do not have similar freedoms.

-Roy
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:16 pm

Democracy Matters.....Especially if you are the Worlds largest Democracy Big thumbs up
regds
HAWK
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L.1011
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:02 pm

For what Jutes, HEALTHCARE?

Puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze. That healthcare doesn't do you any good when there are people dying in terror attacks now does it. America needs an enormous military. You have to remember Jutes, that America's economic power is utterly massive. 3.5% is tiny, but 3.5% of $9.2 trillion is a mighty big number. However, in the grand scheme of things, $400 billion isn't a high price to pay for the unchallenged security of the American people.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:37 pm

Im sure the US would have a lot of data on the Chinese aquired thru Sattelite Images & spies.
regds
HAWK
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Vio
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:00 pm

I've heard that the US Coast Guard is the 8th largest Airforce in the world, in terms of # of aircrafts.  Smile
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:57 pm

Anyone having the breakup of Aircraft Models in the Airforce Inventory of Major Airforces or any link to a site having them.
regds
HAWK
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wing
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:49 am

In modern world air combat the more important is having more advanced technology and very good trained pilots rather than having lots of junk airplanes like Mig-21.Bring 5 squadrons of Mig-21's against a squadron of well trained veteran F-16 squadron and the result will be lots of Aces in the F-16 quadron the next evening.Its not the size of your airforce that matters its how well you use it...
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SXFAN
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:27 pm

Merhaba and BRAVO to wing
We (Greeks and Turks) know how to utilise our airforces with quality orientated purchases in equipment rather than quantity orientated policies.
I wonder if anybody summe up the number and quality of air power that is concentrated on the eastern mediterannean (Turkey, Greece, Israel and Egypt) which is going to be the best and larger airforce in the world.
 
wing
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:55 am

Kalispera SXFAN,
Thanks to Mr.Sam(uncle of both of us)  Smile we spend a good amount of hard earned money for weapons -thus making American's lives better- rather than then spending it to make our lives better.And thanks to our  Acting devilishpoliticians pilots of both countries are making combat practices for free over Aegean which actually makes both airforces experienced and well trained than more airforces claimed as the biggest by the children of these forums.Experience and realistic training enviroment is key element for combat readiness which is a lack for the most "biggest" airforces .

By the way how are preparations for the Olyimpics are going?The last time I've been to Athens(for a day lay over)it looked like a giant constraction site but I think when its all done it will be a great city.I will be a frequent visitor daily for the duration of the Olypics my company will be flying from coasts of Turkey to Athens during the games.Regards.WING
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SXFAN
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:38 am

I totally agree with you Wing on your views about uncle Sam and our politicians I hope that in the near future we will be able to use all that money to reorganize and finance vital projects in our countries for the benefit of the people (Greeks and Turks) without having to spend enormous amounts of our GDP for buying arms.
The view of Athens is still the same (a huge constructin site) I hope that we will be ready for the games though and I hope that I will be able to spot in Athens during that period very rare for Greek airports aircrafts and airlines.
 
FlyboySMF2GFK
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:10 am

I'm not going to get into a pissing match but I'll submit that air-air combat is roughly a thing of the past for the U.S. battle planners. More enemy aircraft will be destroyed on the ground in the opening act of any war than one might imagine with little or no casualites on our side. That's the primary advantage of the USAF/USN technology. Any country would be well-served to make advancements on unmanned, stand-off, and stealth technology than anything else (nuclear deterrents notwithstanding).
 
sovietjet
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:16 am

Russian pilots dont fly as much as their American counterparts but they are not so far behind in skills and being good pilots. Keep in mind that the Russian system of training is much different than the western one. If an American pilot flies 300 hours a year a Russian one would fly 100-120 and still get the same training. Also I believe Russian pilots learn some stuff not learned in America and American pilots probably learn stuff Russians dont. My uncle flew mig-23s and they had to fly practice intercepts at low altitude(think 40-50m) at night in bad weather. Dont think there's enough money to go all the way there now but they did learn stuff like that before.
 
fritzi
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:24 pm

Aaaawwwww,

I thought that Austria had the largest and most modern airforce.  Sad Big grin
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:12 am

Fritzi, J-35 and F-35 are two different planes...  Big thumbs up
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Airforces In The World

Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:45 am

Can one judge which Air Force is most powerful just by looking at the Fleet.
I understand in a War,the outcome will depend on all the Wings of the Armed forces & not just the Air Force.Also Strategy is important.However can Superiority be determined before battle commences.
regds
MEL
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