komododx
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US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:10 am

Just had some questions regarding air force one. How long has this one been in service? Is it true there is another one painted just like it and that it travels along with two other 747s? (Read in some book)

Maybe not likely in the near future, but how long do you think it will take for it to be replaced? And if so, what aircraft would you think it would be replaced by? T7? 7E7?

KdX
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crjdispatchkid
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:13 am

I can only answer your one question for certain. There are two "Air Force Ones". The tail numbers are 28000 and 29000. Both are identical as far as I know. Not to sure how old they are and if/when they'll be replaced. I imagine that they'll be around for awhile.
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phollingsworth
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:22 am

I don't know when the two VC-25s originally rolled off of the assembly line, but they underwent modifications for quite a while before entering service. Which the did sometime around 1990, during the administration of G. H. W. Bush. considering how long the VC-137s stayed in front-line service it will be a while before they are replaced. As for the other aircraft that look similar and follow the President around, those would the the E-4 "NECAP(sp?)" airborne command center airplanes. Though these aren't as important as the used to be, because the VC-25s have most of the command post capability.

By the way the E-4s used CF6-50s and the VC-25s use CF6-80s. You can tell the difference because the -50s are significantly longer than the -80s.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:27 am

How long has this one been in service?

The current VC-25's have been in service since about 1988? I know the first president to have the 747's was George H. Bush. They were also the last 747-200's off the line and feature the upgraded engines of the 744.

Maybe not likely in the near future, but how long do you think it will take for it to be replaced?

The aircraft are kept in immaculate condition so they could easily be opperated for another 20 years.

And if so, what aircraft would you think it would be replaced by? T7? 7E7?

I think someone says this every time an AF1 replacement thread starts, so it might as well be me- NOT AN AIRBUS

It could easily be a twin, I doubt the USAF buys the 4 engines 4 longhaul crap. A 7E7, 777, 747-Adv? Who knows....

Regards,
DFW
 
luv2fly
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:29 am

A great book on this subject is Air Force One by Von Hardesty order from bn.com and it is discounted
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:34 am

Thanks everyone for their responses.

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MontanaFL
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:45 am

A great book on this subject is Air Force One by Von Hardesty order from bn.com and it is discounted

Finished reading the book about a month ago. Very interesting as Von Hardesty takes you through a history of travel for the majority of US presidents going back to George Washington. I purchased the book for only the air traveling presidents, but interesting none the less.

My last TDY in the AF was protection of AF1 where I also got a top/bottom, front/back tour just before G.W. Bush flew out. WHAT A PLANE.
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luv2fly
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:48 am

MontanaFL

I agree it is a GREAT read and enjoyed the early information on the Presidents travel including the train travel and all. Also the early planes and even the PanAm flights as well.
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:49 am

MontanaFL,

WOW! I bet that was awesome? What was it like? (I know it's a really broad question)

I know the top is all communications right? How about the pres. office and all that?

BTW, does he have a shower in his bedroom? Someone once mentioned here that no airliner has a shower on board for a number of reasons.

KdX in TLH
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solnabo
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:57 am

It would be awesome to see Airbus345 as AF1 Big grin
Cheerio

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Starlionblue
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:34 am

Great info all. For the record, the E-4s (4 of them) are known as NEACP (National Emergency Airborne Command Post) and pronounced "Kneecap".

And there is normally a galaxy or the like flying around behind (actually it lands way before) AF1 also. It carries the limos.
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MontanaFL
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:52 am

Komodox - yes there is a shower. It is not a combo tub/shower. Full bathroom facilities. Also, from what I was told, the first a/c to have 2 functioning burner stoves for preparing meals. The office is what you see in the book. Nothing special about it. The bedroom is located at the nose of the plane with two couches that can be pulled out for twin sized beds. There is even a medical room with a table in the cabinet and a fridge for carrying blood if need be. You can read this in the book but it was cool to see.The book shows the med room as being at the front of the a/c but is not. We had to wear shoe covers so we wouldn't "contaminate" the carpet. Didn't get to go all the way into the cockpit as the crew was preparing the plane for departure. Pres G.W. Bush showed up about 45 mins later. There are a number of TV (25 inch if I remember correctly) located throughout the and VCR's up stairs for movies. A different movie can be played for each tv or same movie for all. The movie AF1 did it SOME justice but not all. There is NO escape pod.

Starlionblue - When I was stationed at RAF Mildenhall 89-91, NEACP was kept there while the president was in Europe. I think we had it there 2-4 times over a 2 yr period. Never got a tour of that though.

Seeing and going aboard AF1 was one of 2 highlights of my 4 yrs in the AF. The other was seeing, guarding and watching fly the SR-71 at RAF Mildenhall. Hated to see that bird leave.
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InnocuousFox
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:02 am

AF1 is simply the designation for whatever plane the President is on. If it's a helecopter, it's "Marine 1". Of course, you are asking about the plane that is often USED as AF1.
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ChiGB1973
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:47 am

It would be awesome to see Airbus345 as AF1...My heart skipped a beat. That would be a slap in the face.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:49 am

"It would be awesome to see Airbus345 as AF1...My heart skipped a beat. That would be a slap in the face."

I could see John Kerry doing it. He wants us subservient to Europe in all other ways... why not?
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:51 am

InnocuousFox,
I think that is pretty obvious to all of us.

MontanaFL,

Great stories, I didn't know they also had a stove. How long ago where you in the USAF?

KdX in TLH
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SUPRAZACHAIR
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:00 am

The old AF1 707 at the Boeing Museum of Flight has a stove.
 
MontanaFL
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:02 am

InnocuousFox - I am referring to the 747 used primarily for air transport for the president - tail # 28000. I do know that if he were in a C-172 it would be called AF1 if it were AF equipment.

I DO agree with you about the Airbus 345. Kerry would want "us subservient to Europe in all other ways" and the UN NOT that I want us above them.

KdX - 4 yrs during the first Pres Bush admin. Glad I got out when I did. My cousin was in the Navy just before I got out and refers to it as "the dark times" for the military.
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MontanaFL
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:09 am

SupraZachAir - I did not know that. Maybe the AF guy that gave us the tour of AF1 was referring to AF1 and not that particular a/c.

I want to get up to the AF museum in Dayton and see the others that are kept there. I still havent had the chance to get up to IAD and see the new Smithsonian air & space
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:44 am

So before this evaporates into a political discussion, let me turn it back to the topic. The two VC-25s were delivered to the USAF in 1990. Also, InnocuousFox made a misstatement when he said "whatever plane" the president is on is Air Force One. That only holds if the president is on a plane owned and operated by the US Air Force. When President Bush flew to the USS Abraham Lincoln, for example, the S-3B Viking that he was on was designated Navy One. Similarly, if the President was on a US Army UH-60, it would be Army One. Should the president be on a non-military owned aircraft, it is Executive One.
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erj
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:10 am

Garnetpalmetto: You just answered a question I've had for a while about if the President was on an a/c of another branch. I've never thought about non military... Executive One. Good info!

I don't know if it's there any more, but the Presidential Air Wing Exhibit at the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB is pretty awesome. I highly recommend it. I was there a few years ago. It's a journey through the history of Presidential Aircraft. From FDR through to modern day. Of course the highlight is JFK's VC137, the one that carried his body back from Dallas. You can walk through that one.
 
gigneil
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:11 am

It could easily be a twin, I doubt the USAF buys the 4 engines 4 longhaul crap.

They do. Wholeheartedly.

You will likely never see a presidential transport with 2 engines. They cannot afford a diversion to an "unclean" airport with only a few hours notice.

N
 
USAFHummer
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:31 pm

Also at Pima Air Museum in Tuscon, there's a VC-118 that served in the Presidential fleet and open for walk-throughs:

http://www.pimaair.org/Acftdatapics/dou_dc6.htm

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canoecarrier
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:01 pm

I got to see one of the current AF1's at McConnell AFB in Wichita before delivery. It didn't had a large tarp or cover over the midsection. I remember at the time thinking it was quite an aircraft. I'm pretty sure it was in 88 or 91. One of the other aircraft that served is supposed to be at the Museum of Flight at BFI, but I haven't gone over to look at it yet. Although, any aircraft the president flys in is called AF1, regardless of the aircraft. I worked at a regional airport in the 90's when a Gulfstream flew Clinton in. As a sidenote, Marine 1 flew in a day before and flew him to his engagement the day he came in.

There's a lot of good stories around AF1. When Nixon or Carter left office (I can't remember which) power was transferred while he was in flight. The pilot called and changed the callsign from AF1, to the regular Airforce callsign of that aircraft.
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Boeing Nut
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:41 pm

You will likely never see a presidential transport with 2 engines. They cannot afford a diversion to an "unclean" airport with only a few hours notice.

Gigniel,

Sorry to "pick the fly shit out of the pepper", but don't forget, the President does fly on the C-9 on occasion. I may be wrong, but I think I've even seen him stepping off the C-32 (757) as well.
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:05 pm

What is the "flight" called when the VP is in? AF2? What about the first lady?

Btw, Mrs. Bush was here in TLH about two weeks ago for what I think was a fundraiser in Doak Campbell stadium. Anybody know what plane she used. I figured it was a Gulfstream. Does she ever fly on the 75's? I know Cheney uses those, right?

KdX in TLH
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:14 am

Indeed, if the VP was the highest ranking Executive Officer onboard a USAF aircraft it'd be AF2. No special callsigns for the First Lady or anyone else - although I did see a thread where recently Tom Ridge began referring to his flights as "Homeland One"  Insane
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:14 am

Garnetpalmetto,

Yeah I saw that thread too, it was a gulfstream right? Btw, is the 75' pretty much the same as AF1 inside regarding communications, defense systems, etc?

KdX in TLH
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j.mo
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:58 pm

Two quick corrections.
First, back during the 90's President Clinton was going to Jackson Hole, WY. He flew the 747 to Hill AFB, UT and then the 757 from there to JAC. So they will fly on a twin.

Second, when a member of the Presidents family is aboard any aircraft, and if the Secret service deems it necessary the callsign will be "Executive One Foxtrot."

Jeremy
 
jbmitt
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:52 pm

What is kept in the cargo hold of Air Force one? Is it essentially another floor, is there storage for baggage. I can't imagine that they need space for that many bags, and freight can't be an issue. any ideas?

jbmitt
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:19 pm

JBMitt, they need more space for baggage than you realize. It's not JUST the president onboard, but the president, their aides, any other dignitaries accompanying the president, and the press pool that usually flies along.
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:50 pm

Do any of you know about how many reporters usually travel along?
And how are their seats? Any good pitch?

KdX in TLH
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:41 am

I was reading this morning on CNNtogo about Cheney's tour in Asia. What a/c is he and his entourage using?

KdX in TLH
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L-188
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RE: US Air Force One

Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:04 am

You will likely never see a presidential transport with 2 engines.

How many motors does a VH-3 have?

But more correctly Ike when he went to Korea was shuttled around in a Ryan Navion.

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Cadmus
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RE: US Air Force One

Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:57 am

I just picked this up on the BBC News website.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Royal planes may lose Union Jack

Planes used by the Royal family could lose their red, white and blue livery markings for security reasons because they look too distinctive.
The Ministry of Defence said attempts are being made to make the jets, formerly known as the Queen's Flight, more civilian looking.
The changes are being considered amid current global fears over terrorism.
Removing the striking Union Jack flags from the tail fins of the aircraft is one of the possible changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------

If this were to come about would/should the USAF do the same for Air Force One?
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komododx
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RE: US Air Force One

Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:24 am

Cadmus, thanks for the info.

That sucks though! I would think trying to "hide" the Queen from any terrorists is like letting them win, that is why i would not think they will ever strip AF1 from its colors. By the way, do you know of the specifics of the safety features of the Royal family planes?

KdX in TLH
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Cadmus
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RE: US Air Force One

Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:30 am

I'm not aware of the specific countermeasures on 32 Squadron's aircraft, but as the photos below show, the 146's have pods fitted either side of the rear fuselage just below the cheat line.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dennis Lau


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nik Deblauwe


The 125 appear to have something similar built into the tailcone.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nik Deblauwe

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PPGMD
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RE: US Air Force One

Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:16 am

Cadmus,

Those pods appear to be IR jammers. Appears to be a different model from what the USAF fields though, so I can't say for sure. You can get a better look at them in these photos.


View Large View Medium

Photo © Derek Pedley - AirTeamImages



View Large View Medium

Photo © Gary Watt - AirTeamImages



Also they aren't directly over the engines or APU like on the VC-25's, but I guess since those are both small aircraft they can get away with them on the centerline position.

Edit: You can see the IR jammers on Air Force One on these photos.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn Stewart


It's the black spot above the APU.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hamish Gordhan


It's the green spots on the back of the engine pylon.

Of course the VC-25 is protected by other counter-measures, but those are the ones visible to the naked eye.

[Edited 2004-04-17 20:25:55]
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Cadmus
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RE: US Air Force One

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:18 am

PPGMD - Thanks for that, I hadn't noticed the one above the APU before.

I've done a bit of reading, and according to the 'Encyclopedia of World Military Aircraft' (Aerospace Publishing 1994) the 146's are equiped with Loral Matador infra-red jamming systems and the 125's have the Northrop MIRTS infra-red countermeasures system, which was fitted in 1988. Having said that, the installation in the tail of the 125 pictured in the book doesn't look like the one shown above - it's a narrower cylinder with a flat end and no faring on the side. It looks to me like they've standardised on the Matador.
Understanding is a three-edged sword
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:35 am

When Bill Clinton visited Copenhagen, then he arrived on both VC-25As (28000 and 29000) plus three C-5s.

The C-5s carried three VH-3s plus limos and a very heavy looking vehicle with black windows which we named "the war wagon". The war wagon was always three feet behind the president's limo.

Nobody knew on which VC-25 the president was traveling until one of them parked at the red carpet.

The helicopters were only used for transporting the president 30 miles from CPH to the front lawn of the Queen's summer palace. All three choppers landed almost simultaneously even if they arrived from three different angles spaced 120 degrees. Again nobody knew which one was the real one until one landed at the red carpet.

Those guys don't travel lite.
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PPGMD
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RE: US Air Force One

Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:12 pm

...very heavy looking vehicle with black windows...

Might that have been the Ford Expedition that they use? I guess you don't see too many of those on European roads with the gas prices that high. But that carries the Secret Service, and extricates the President during an emergency.
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: US Air Force One

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:30 pm

Just as added info, the 2 VC-25As are as follows:
82-8000 is msn 23824/ln 679 ff May 16, 1987 del Jul 1990
92-9000 is msn 23825/ln 685 ff October 29,1987 del December 20,1990.

Many 747-200/-300s were built after these 2. And, the first president to use the VC-25 was Bill Clinton.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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PPGMD
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RE: US Air Force One

Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:38 am

Actually Bush 41 was able to use the VC-25's but only for a few months until Clinton came into Office. I remember seeing the video during which President Bush first toured his new Air Force 1.
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: US Air Force One

Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:18 pm

Bush Sr did indeed tour the VC-25, he just never flew in it as president. They both became operational after the inauguration of Clinton.
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PPGMD
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RE: US Air Force One

Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:37 am

From the USAF Fact Sheet:
The first VC-25A -- tail number 28000 -- flew as "Air Force One" on Sept. 6, 1990, when it transported President George Bush to Kansas, Florida and back to Washington, D.C.

http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131
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IMissPiedmont
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RE: US Air Force One

Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:21 pm

Oh my, I'm wrong again. Oh well, it's not the first time and it only gets worse as I grow older.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
advstol
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RE: US Air Force One

Fri May 07, 2004 8:36 am

As stated in the 'hobby' section of this fourm, I am gathering information on AIR FORCE ONE to build a 1/7th r/c flying model of this aircraft and I am soliciting help for this project, take a look at my piece in the hobby section and then e-mail me if you are intrested. I already have a copy of the book 'AIR FORCE ONE' by Robert F. Dorr, but I am going to bn.com(whatever that is) and see if that one can offer any more information over what I already have. Incidently I am doing the 747B200 version 'cause I like 'real challenges & big (working) models, so e-mail me if you want to be a part of this. One more thing, can anybody get a copy of the prayer 'High Flight' video when the TV stations would sign off the air, the Starfighter is still a cool bird but watch those wings when its on the ground, bye y'all.
 
HaveBlue
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RE: US Air Force One

Fri May 07, 2004 2:20 pm

Don't feel bad IMissPiedmont. I could have swore that I've read that Bush Sr. signed for the the 747 to become AF 1 but that Clinton was the first to actually utilize it. It made a point with me because it seemed offly sefless of Bush to do. Guess we were both wrong.

And L-188, the VH-3 obviously has only 2 engines, and though a newer CH-53 Sea Stallion has a 3rd engine, if I'm not mistaken the Presidential one is still the older CH-53A which only has 2 as well.
Here Here for Severe Clear!
 
L-188
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RE: US Air Force One

Fri May 07, 2004 3:00 pm

I wasn't aware of any CH-53's in VIP service. Only the SH-3, UH-1 and UH-60 based platforms.
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Refueler1974
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RE: US Air Force One

Sat May 08, 2004 1:06 am

Does anyone know why they chose a B742 instead of a B744 for AF1??
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