SXFAN
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Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 3:56 pm

Do you believe that the A380 can become the new Air Force One?
If yes what kind of electronic goodies and equipment do you think that it will carry? And which is going to be the amount of luxury added on this extremely special aircraft?
Please unleash your creative imagination and add your comments.
Thanks,
Vasilis.
 
MileHighClub
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 4:04 pm

It never will because its a European product!
 
JetboyTWA
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 4:04 pm

I'm sure it "could", but I really doubt the US would spend upwards of $280,000,000 on a foreign aircraft. I can't forsee anything other than a Boeing in the future.

-Ryan
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 6:15 pm

Even if Boeing went bankrupt, I think they would rather buy an Il-96 than a Europlane. Or you'd have the President and his Lear or Cessna:D

And even if Boeing went bankrupt, they could buy a pair of used 744s and use them for 30+ years. Besides which, the current VC-25As are nowhere near replacement. They don't really work that much and they are maintained obsessively.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
CruzinAltitude
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 6:17 pm

Yes it can,



If the Pres ever happened to fly on one (for some very odd reason). But that is about as likely as a Cessna 152 becoming AF 1 for a day.
As far as the US Gov purchasing a A380 for the next AF 1, I truly think it would have to be a VERY cold day in hell for that to happen. Don't get me wrong, I look forward to seeing the SuperJumbo land at LAX some time in the not so distant future, but any President that purchased an A380 will have lost their reelection.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 6:19 pm

CruzinAltitude, good point.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 6:25 pm

Of course it could, but (again of course) it won't!

Silly thread
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
SUPRAZACHAIR
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 6:43 pm

Seems like A.nutters are hittin' the wacky tobacky a bit much lately. Lots of silly threads, I must say.  Big grin
 
jwenting
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 6:46 pm

If the Pres ever happened to fly on one (for some very odd reason). But that is about as likely as a Cessna 152 becoming AF 1 for a day.

INCORRECT!
A US OWNED and registered aircraft would become EXECUTIVE1 if it were civilian owned, an aircraft registered in another country would likely receive no special registration.

ONLY USAF aircraft will becoms AF1, US Army Army1, USMC Marine1, USCG CoastGuard1.
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petertenthije
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 8:37 pm

It could happen, not as a US Air Force 1 though. There are many countries with a AF1 plane. I would not be surprised if the A380 is picked up by some wealthy Middle Eastern king, or by France.
Attamottamotta!
 
EUSWISS
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 8:56 pm

It could become the AF1 for the EU president if the EU constitution is agreed. The EU constitution calls for a powerful and permanent EU president.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 8:59 pm

Depends how long the B747 will be in production? I personally think the B777 would be the next AFO.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Ealsys1
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 9:05 pm

The 707 based AF1 was flown for 30 years. The present AF1 is only about 12-13 years old. Why on earth would anyone replace it yet? While it may be based on the 742, it is still state of the art. The built in electronic countermeasures and technology that we as civilians will NEVER see also guarantee its longevity! The amount of money spent on developing the current AF1 means we'll probably see it around for a LONG time!

Sam
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 9:31 pm

All politic's aside (puh-leeeeeeease!!!) I doubt that the U.S. Govt. would purchase something like the A380 for a variety of reasons...

1) Not an "American" plane. It may have U.S. components, here and there, but it's not "built" here. It's like the Presidential limo being a Citroen.(Cool cars, but again, not BUILT here)

2) Size! You can't "drop in" as the president does. Limited to places that could support the big bird. And big planes can make big targets in this nutty world, too.

3) Cost. Probably cheaper to rebuild ANYTHING (or a couple of ANYTHING's) to state of the art, as opposed to a new Airbus.

Just my opinion.
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AC
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:00 pm

It won't . Simply due to security reasons. Who knows what equipment will be installed in the flight by euro spy for stealing US top-secret?
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bmacleod
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:12 pm

The Japanese PM has a 744 as his official aircraft right? Maybe the Japanese government would be intersted in a 380....
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:17 pm

I predict an A380 will become the American Presidents choice for Air Force One, when we have our first foreign born president.



That as everyone knows is constitutionally impossible.
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7e72004
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:19 pm

I think there would be massive protests if they started using the A380 for airforce one. That would be a slap in the face of the US. Although it would be funny to see one of those things as AF-1.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
NIKV69
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:20 pm

Never in a million years! I agree with SupraZachAir these threads have been bad.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
rj777
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:35 pm

When the US Gov't asked for candidates for the (current) AF1, it was between the 747 and the DC-10. I don't ever remember any airbus plane even being in the running. Obviously, the 747 won out. It would've been cool to see a DC-10 as the presidential plane though.

 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:38 pm

1) Not an "American" plane. It may have U.S. components, here and there, but it's not "built" here. It's like the Presidential limo being a Citroen.(Cool cars, but again, not BUILT here)

Agreed. Image is everything.


2) Size! You can't "drop in" as the president does. Limited to places that could support the big bird. And big planes can make big targets in this nutty world, too.

If an airport can support the 747, it can most likely support the 380. The footprint is designed to be similar.



I predict an A380 will become the American Presidents choice for Air Force One, when we have our first foreign born president.



That as everyone knows is constitutionally impossible.


The Constitution can, of course, be amended  Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:42 pm

Starlionblue;

I highly doubt it will ever be changed. There are two American governors who would love to run for President right now but can't.


That Austrian and the Canadian!

Never will happen IMHO
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funflyer
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:49 pm

NO definatly not, the secret underground runways and bunkers set up all over the USA to protect the President from the Aliens arrival, is not set up to handle an A380.



That is all.

 Smile  Smile  Smile
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MidnightMike
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 10:50 pm


I think that A380 would be a little tooooooo big for the requirements of Airforce One.
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citationjet
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 11:00 pm

I seriously doubt it for many reasons:

The plane is too big.
It would be political suicide to endorse that product.
The risk of electronic bugging during assembly (remember the US embassy in Russia).
The current 747 probably has probably 20 more years of service.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
kanebear
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 11:05 pm

Oh I wouldn't think cost is a factor... I'd imagine Airbus would give the US Government one hell of a huge discount just for being able to thumb their nose at Boeing.  Smile As for size... many of the places AF1 goes were designed to handle the B-52.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Thu May 20, 2004 11:37 pm

I highly doubt it will ever be changed. There are two American governors who would love to run for President right now but can't.

I didn't think so either. I was just being facetious. Shame though, I would have made a good president.

Executive Order #1: All airlines are required to have at least 4 types in operation at all times Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tristarenvy
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:06 am

Starlionblue in '04!

"Ask not what your airline can do for you, but what YOU can do for your airline!"

Running on the Airline Frequent Voter/Flyer Ticket.
If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:09 am

Executive Order #2: Frequent Flyer Miles can be redeemed on ANY airline.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
n949wp
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:20 am

I bet the US gov. will do everything it can to look for a US design for the replacement when it's finally time for the current VC-25 to retire a few decades down the road. If there are no suitably-sized US commerical airliner available at the time to serve as potential candidates, the USAF will likely solicit an all-new design for AF1, although that could end up being a multi-billion dollar project for a handful of aircraft. Or they could fund a new design as a basis to replace all airliner-based aircraft in the inventory (e.g. KC-10, E-3, E-4, etc.) and build a version for presidential transport.

As long as the US gov. has enough taxpayers money to spend, it will get the US-made aircraft it wants.
 
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:30 am

It wouldn't surprise me if the next US Presidential Bird was a 7E7. 8,000 mile range and can slip into any major city. Newest technology. 747 is a wonderful bird, but at times excessive...

The EU constitution calls for a powerful and permanent EU president.

This really cracks me up. First the notion that the US would actually buy the 380 as the Presidential Aircraft. Next it's the "US v EU". But really, isn't the EU simply a duplication of the US. Something we're doing must be right, or you wouldn't be doing a Chinese Copy of our Government.

(Sarcasm disclosure: The later part of the post is meant to be funny.)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:36 am

Next it's the "US v EU". But really, isn't the EU simply a duplication of the US

I'm laughing  Big grin

On a more serious not, the huge difference between the US and the EU, and the big factor in the way of more unification in Europe, is that the EU nations were nations before joining, while the US States were not. So there is a lot more inertia involved.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:37 am

Next it's the "US v EU". But really, isn't the EU simply a duplication of the US

I'm laughing  Big grin

On a more serious note, the huge difference between the US and the EU, and the big factor in the way of more unification in Europe, is that the EU nations were nations before joining, while the US States were not (EDIT: with one exception). So there is a lot more inertia involved.

[Edited 2004-05-20 17:40:59]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Guest

RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 12:41 am

So they should call it the BU??

Bureacratic Union... God help us if the US, Canada and Mexico try something like this.
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 4:01 am

I love the DC-10, but to my eyes the 747 is a much more 'Presidential' looking aircraft. The hump seperates it from all other cylindrical only airliners, and with its size and grace has always looked like the Queen of the Skies, so only fitting that she is the one chosen to carry the President.

This is just my personal opinion. I can't wait to see a 380 with my own eyes, large planes intrigue me, so this isn't a A vs B thing at all.
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jwenting
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 4:58 am

If the EU "constitution" passes we'll all be French colonies without a real government, leaving the French president as president of Europe.
I think Chirac would love to have an A380 so he can say he's got a bigger one than the US president without lying  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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cloudy
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 3:18 pm

On a more serious note, the huge difference between the US and the EU, and the big factor in the way of more unification in Europe, is that the EU nations were nations before joining, while the US States were not (EDIT: with one exception). So there is a lot more inertia involved.
----

This is indeed a factor, but it is more because the European nations, for the most part, had a longer history as independent nations than the US states had. The American states did indeed have most of the characteristics of sovereign states for some time.

The articles of confederation, in the revolutionary and immediate post-revolutionary period, were written as more of an alliance among independent countries than as a constitution for a new nation. The colonies had enjoyed defacto independence from England for many decades after they were founded - the main symbol of English rule was a governor that the colonies could control by varying his salary and/or by simply threatening to tar and feather him. One's oath to a king 3+ month's sailing time away means little when there is a lynch mob at your door. Every time England tried to impose true colonial controls (as Spain had with its colonies), the colonists protested and got the controls repealed. When at last the British stood their ground, a plurality of the colonists revolted. ( There were more "patriots" than "loyalists, but not many more. The revolution was as much a civil war as a war of independence. Loyalties varied greatly among ethnic groups and regions).

Even the constitution did not remove all sovereign power from the states, indeed, most Americans considered the states to be their primary government. The "United States" was considered a plural noun - you said "The United States ARE a union". The sole sovereignty of the federal government, as well as the primary loyalty of the people to the federal government, is largely a result of the civil war(1860-64). After the civil war, one said "The United States IS a union".

IN SHORT...The States had defacto sovereignty for a long time, and retained much of it even after the constitution was adopted. The civil war did more to create America as a unified country under a single government than the revolutionary war did - because that was when most Americans transferred their primary loyalty to the central government. Even now, vestiges of state sovereignty remain - the Electoral College( mainly responsible for the contested election of 2000)is one example. Unification in the United States was not as easy as many Europeans are prone to think. It was a long and bloody road, and I hope you guy have it easier  Smile.

 
HaveBlue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Fri May 21, 2004 3:53 pm

Good post Cloudy. You summed that up nicely.
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Alessandro
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sat May 22, 2004 2:30 am

HaveBlue, I don´t think so, they want a tested airframe, which means the B777 if the B747 isn´t made anymore...
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HaveBlue
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sat May 22, 2004 3:34 am

Alessandro, maybe you misread my post. I wasn't implying that I want the 380 for AF1. On the contrary, I love the 747. Didn't want anyone to think I was dissing the 380 though, because it'll be very cool to see one flying around, but it doesn't look 'Presidential' in my opinion.

I remember when the KC-10's wore the white top, grey bottom with a blue pin stripe down the middle and the American flag, before they went OD, and that looked pretty good as well.

Sorry for any confusion. I like the 380, but not for AF1.
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Contact_tower
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sun May 23, 2004 7:59 am

These treads are great entertainment to read!!!!

A bunch of pro-Airbus or pro-her foreing marks thinking that the US DOD will buy the european product in question, and the US folks telling them no way!

Can't everyone for once grow up, and realize that the US DOD will NEVER allocate a MAJOR contract (executive transport, tanker, fighter or whatever) to a foreing company! (don't give me the "some parts are foreign anyway cr**")

Short of Boeing, Lockheed, Sikorsky, Grumman, Raytheon (and all the others) rolling tits up, I don't see any way that contracts will go abroad any time soon............

From a much amused europan that hope Dubaya goes home to TX for good in time for christmas.....  Big thumbs up
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sun May 23, 2004 8:18 am

Can't everyone for once grow up, and realize that the US DOD will NEVER allocate a MAJOR contract (executive transport, tanker, fighter or whatever) to a foreing company

*cough T-45 cough* *cough B-57 cough* *cough UV-18 cough* *cough C-23 cough* *Cough C-27 cough* Damn...I think I've got strep throat  Wink/being sarcastic
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Contact_tower
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sun May 23, 2004 8:41 am

ohhh....so very MAJOR many of those......the Twotter was huge and costly indeed!

T-45 is made and markeded by Boeing I belive, and the B-57? Come on? That's over 40 years ago!!!!! (The T-45 deal is allso over 20 years old I belive)

And btw: I am talking about the future.......don't se many A330's, A400's, EF2000's etc in DOD stables anytime soon......looks like the CASA Deepwater deal is going tits up as well.

I'm not complaining, I'm just realistic.

 
LMP737
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sun May 23, 2004 8:52 am

Garnetpalmento:

Don't forget the AV-8, various small arms, 76mm OTO Merala on USN FFG's, 120mm Rheinmentall gun on the M-1A1 etc, etc. I think what Contact Tower does not take into account is that for most major programs the US has the capability to develop their own equipment. Why buy from somewhere else when you can do it youself. However when it was not economical to do that the DOD has been willing to go to foreign suppliers. The AV-8, T-45, B-57, 76mm gun are examples of this.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Contact_tower
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sun May 23, 2004 7:22 pm

"However when it was not economical to do that the DOD has been willing to go to foreign suppliers"

We should se a KC-330 soon then?

(Comment on T-45 applies to AV-8 as well, and the sub systems you quoted? How many of them has ever been picked up by the public as being a foreign contract? It's low profile sub contractors! (Sure they cost a lot) And for the B-57: Still 40 years ago chaps! Don't think the DOD will give a 400 aircraft contract to a foreing company now)
 
keesje
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sun May 23, 2004 8:46 pm

Well, no A380 AF1 then.

Will we ever a EC1 A380 parking next to a new AF1 on important summits?

Probably interesting shots on worldwide TV.



"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
LMP737
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Sun May 23, 2004 11:56 pm

Contact tower:

When you look at the history of major DOD acquisitions you will see that for the most part european companies had nothing to offer.

F-14, europe had nothing comparable to offer.
F-15, europe had nothing comparable to offer.
F-16, the Mirage 5 was available but it was inferior to the Falcon.
F-18, europe had nothing to offer.
KC-135, the Comet was available but with it's fuselage mounted engines it was probable not suited for refueling.
C-130, europe had nothing to offer.
C-141, europe had noting to offer
C-5, europe had noting to offer.
E-2, europe had nothing to offer.

Yes, Boeing built the T-45 and AV-8. But don't forget that BAE was the major supplier for Boeing and without their help neither program would have been possible.
A-6/EA-6B, europe had noting to offer.
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Contact_tower
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Mon May 24, 2004 9:00 am

Oh good! That means DOD will buy abroad if the product is better? I'll keep that in mind next time they shop in house after a specification tailored to a known bidder.......  Big grin
 
LMP737
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RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Mon May 24, 2004 9:24 am

Or when a company purposely underbids.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Guest

RE: Can A380 Become The New Air Force 1?

Mon May 24, 2004 9:35 am

Keesje:

"Will we ever a EC1 A380 parking next to a new AF1 on important summits?

Yes, and imagine having a An-225 sitting alongside those! You can always bet on presidents to have huge egos, and if we get lucky that might translate into planes! Big grin

My money's on the Russians.

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