Sabena332
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C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sun Jul 04, 2004 8:21 am

Normaly I am not interested in military aviation, but today I was looking for some Lockheed Galaxy pictures on A.net. I noticed that a person is looking out of the roof hatch during taxi in many pictures:


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Photo © Carlos Aleman - SJU Aviation Photography
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Photo © D.Lausberg



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Photo © Vasco Garcia
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Photo © Derek Pedley - AirTeamImages



Is there any reason why they do that, is it for some reasons necessary? Or do these guys it just for fun and to get a nice overview?

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Contact_tower
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sun Jul 04, 2004 8:42 am

Helping the pilots with the taxiing I belive, to check wing clearence etc. After all it is a big SOB.....  Big thumbs up
 
DLKAPA
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:03 pm

Go Right! NO WAIT LEFT, LEFT LEFT LEEEEEEEEFFFT!!!! (crunching noise of empty parked maintenance vehicle)
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Refueler1974
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:18 am

DLKAPA - if there would have been somebody watching like that about a year ago, one wouldn't have run over a HALON extinguisher while taxiing out to the runway at AEX........I guess they forgot to go "up top" before moving....LOL.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:10 pm

It's an extra crewmember checking wingtip and landing gear clearances. On the KC-10 when we go to places with very tight taxiways like RAF Mildenhall and most other NATO airfields it's a HIGHLY encouraged technique to put a boomer in one or both of the two front doors (1L and 1R) as you can tell by this pic;


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Photo © Robert Flinzner



It's pretty tough to taxi a 200 foot long airplane when the nose gear is 20 feet behind the pilot and the mains are 100 feet (KC-10, I've got no clue about the C-5) so they take any information regarding clearances they can get. Hope this helped
 
Sabena332
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:58 pm

Duce50boom,

thanks for the explanation!

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
galaxy5
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:18 am

Its usually one of the two flight engineers, (called the Scanner) he is an extra set of eyes for the pilots to assure wing tip and tail growth clearances. Its a safety precaution to prevent running into things, BTW it wouldn't have prevented running over the Halon ext. You can only see about 20 feet in front of the nose due to the angle and position. We usually need at least 25 feet of wing tip clearance to taxi without a marshaler and 10 feet with one as long as the object is about less than 6 feet tall.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:48 am

I'm surprised no one's brought up the halon extinguishers a couple 10s ran over in Misawa 2 years back. 2 bottles, 2 different jets and crews, same AB. Talk about lousy luck.

 
MYT332
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:04 pm

Well you learn something new everyday. I just asumed someone had bad guts or what not.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
One Life, Live it.
 
Refueler1974
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:17 am

We (and they) were very lucky that the halon bottle didn't rupture!! Also, they were EXTREMELY lucky that one of the airline rampers saw them when they ran over the extinguisher and called the tower!! The crew had no idea that they had even run over anything!!
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:27 am

Why didn't the scanner notice the fire bottle? If the C-5 is run like the 141 then the scanner is outside during engine start and comes in when you close up. Did he just not see it when he climbed up the ladder?
 
Refueler1974
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:32 am

That is what we were trying to figure out. He was leaning on it during startup....but never moved it out of the way. It got wedged nicely between the the two right side nose wheels!!
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
 
Sabena332
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:30 am

Galaxy5,

sorry for the late reply, somehow I forgot this thread (maybe because I don't post often in this forum). Also to you: thanks for the competent explanation, very interesting.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
galaxy5
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:18 am

Refueler1974
From United States, joined Mar 2004, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply: 11
Posted Wed Jul 7 2004 18:32:02 UTC+1 and read 522 times:
That is what we were trying to figure out. He was leaning on it during startup....but never moved it out of the way. It got wedged nicely between the the two right side nose wheels!!

Just FYI, the scanner doesnt move the ext. who ever is marshalling out is supposed too, however the scanner is required to ensure the area is clear for taxi ops. From what i understandthey ran over the fire bottle because the didnt move it far enough away ( the scanner should have know that) and it got jammed up in the nose gear tires when they ran it over.

The funny thing is, with the C-5 being so big, the crew wouldnt have really noticed if the NLG tires whad gone flat, hell i blew 12 tires and never even noticed it until we were told by tower.


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
N1641
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:57 am

the "scanner" I love that term, as a new ATC, C-141 pilots on occasion would say they where deploying the scanner to check for a brake or gear problem and I imagined it to be some sort of special equipment, maybe with red lasers? no its an enlisted air crew member that runs around the plane Smile
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:11 pm

N1641,

I think you're going on a limb with your "its an enlisted air crew member that runs around the plane" remark.

Maybe if you'd written "stumbled" or "walks in a half drunken stupor" instead of "runs" it'd be a good description. Kidding around of course, but the scanner is always the flight engineer who's taking a break. The next leg or day the former scanner will be the flight engineer and vice versa.

Galaxy5,

Nice signature. "After it was all over, he took us in the house and served us pancakes............pancakes."
 
galaxy5
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:38 am

Nope, N1641, the scanner is just a low tech eyes and ears for the almighty pilots around the aircraft.

Hey Duce 50, that brings up the question? how do you guys deploy a "scanner" on the 10? like if you have an emergency and stop at the end of the runway or for what ever reason
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:09 am

If the problem is taxiway or runway width, like we're stuck in a corner and we're not sure if we can make it out, we'll throw a boom or two in one of the doors. Normally 1L or 1R, since that's got a great view of the gear and engines. If it's more serious than that, or if the pilot wants a view from the ground, we'll have a crew chief (if we got em, otherwise the almighty boomer) go down a hatch in the cockpit through the avionics compartment and through another hatch in the nose gear so he can get on the ground. We call it "sending a guy down the nose". He can hook up a headset and talk to us directly from the interphone jack on the NLG or he can use visuals.
 
PPGMD
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:35 am

Duce50boom,

Does the 10 have a bail out hatch like the 135 because that sure doesn't sound like a quick way out of the aircraft?
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:50 am

Nope, no hatch, and no way to get out of the aircraft (and survive) while airborne. If you depressurize the aircraft and open any of the cabin doors you'll run into either the engines, wings, or the horiz stab. If you go out the nose, the gear will have to be down and you'll hit the center gear on the way out, or if that's retracted I'd guess you'd hit the ARO compartment fairing.

In any case, it really doesn't matter too much because we don't carry parachutes on the -10. For the reasons stated above.

I've heard the 135 escape chute is actually a quick ride. I didn't go through 135 training, so take my words about it with a grain of salt. But from what I hear from folks who were 135 qual'd, you'd emergency open the hatch and hold the rails while you jump down the tunnel. IIRC, only 1 person (the boomer) has ever jumped from a 135, and he survived without a scratch.
 
PPGMD
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:59 am

The 135 that I was on, there was a ladder down the tunnel with a metal shield in place to stop the wind from knocking the person off until they jump.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:23 am

All DC-10s / MD-11s have the rear entrance through the nose wheel well. You can climb up the nose gear, and then, provided you are not too fat, walk along the closed gear doors (keeping your feet close to the hinges) and enter the plane through this door.Then you´ll have to crawl around the main avionics rack and up through the hatch into the cockpit behind the captain´s seat.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:01 am

Going through the avionics compt is a b**ch! It's very tight, and if you forgot to hit the switch on the boomer's "panel" or if you're coming up from the ground, you're doing it in the dark (sts) and in one of the hottest areas of the aircraft
 
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chrisnh
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:59 pm

I think they stick their heads out largely because, well, they can. I will be at the Westover Open House in Massachusetts this weekend, and being a C-5A base (15 or 16 based there), I'm sure we will see more of the same  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.

Chris in NH
 
stall
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:15 am

The view must be nice !
Unless its raining !!!!
Flying is fun
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: C-5: People Looking Out Of The Roof Hatch, Why?

Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:29 pm

Yes, going up or down through the hatch behind the captain´s seat is like dancing limbo. There area few control cables in the way.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi

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