QIguy24
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Saab Draken

Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:37 pm

Does any of you guys know how many countries that used SAAB Draken before they retired?

I know Denmark and Sweden did. And we were actually pretty sad when they retired a few years ago. They have been some of the best fighters we have ever had. So it was a shame to see them go.
But thankfully I see one everytime I drive past the gate to Karup Air Base. They use one for decoration now. And that is a great sight  Big thumbs up


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[Edited 2004-08-17 07:40:35]
 
L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:35 pm

Should have been Sweden, Denmark, Austria, and the Miller Brewing Company.
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QIguy24
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:47 pm

Miller Brewing Company????

Were Sweden, Denmark and Austria the only one who used Draken? I thougt there were more countries using them.
But what does Miller Brewing company use them for? Private Jet or what?
 
L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:44 pm

They used one for a superbowl add and I think it was the one they used as the opposing aircraft in the movie, "Firehawks"


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QIguy24
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:55 pm

Haha!! You got to be kidding me??? Big grin
It's a shame to see that picture above. It really doesn't look good anymore.
I hope they have repainted it and use it for collection item.
 
skymaster
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:00 pm

L-188.
You for got the Finnish Air Force.
As civil operators Flight Test Dynamics, National Testpilot School and Flight Research Inc have operated several former Danish Drakens.
 
L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:34 am

Dammit I knew I forgot one.

I forgot to mention that the Miller Brewing Company Drakens where proposed to be used on a stike on Golden Colorado Big grin


But it was called off.
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AFHokie
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RE: Saab Draken

Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:41 am

L-188 I thought the strike was scheduled on St. Louis and the Busch plant

:D
 
L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:53 am

Sorry to get off topic but did you hear about that black bear in Washington State this week that raided a bunch of coolers and ended up drinking 36 cans of Ranier beer before he passed out, he tried one Busch can then left the others  Laugh out loud


No I am not making that up.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/08/18/bear.beer.reut/index.html

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QIguy24
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RE: Saab Draken

Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:18 pm

Holy shit!! 36 beers! Damn I want to drink together with that bear once. I'm sure he could learn me how to drink like a real man.

Signed
Fritzi



PS... No wonder the bear left the Busch out. They really taste of nothing Big grin
 
bennett123
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RE: Saab Draken

Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:37 pm

How many Saab Draken are still flying.
 
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eksath
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RE: Saab Draken

Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:11 pm

Yeah..Finland operated 47 with no losses in service.


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SlamClick
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RE: Saab Draken

Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:22 pm

That bear story - wasn't that a Lord Buckley routine? "I'm God's own drunk and a fearless man!"

Skip Holm had a Drakken at the Reno Air Races last year. Really a good looking plane up close. Who owned that one?

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beowulf
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RE: Saab Draken

Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:03 pm

Hi guys,

Let me point out that Austria still uses the Draaken. There are plans (and a signed contract) to replace it with the Eurofighter, but as we speak, the Draaken are still in use by the Austrian military. And no, this is neither a joke nor am I drunk.

Nick
 
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solnabo
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RE: Saab Draken

Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:47 am

SAAB Draken was one hell of a fighter IMO, and very estetic looking...

Just my 25 öre

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RE: Saab Draken

Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:21 am

@Beowulf:
The Draken in Austria will be replaced with F-5E leased from Switzerland. Four of them are already delivered to Austria. The first Draken have already been withdrawn from use and are stripped of all usable spare parts to keep the remaining Draken in service until 2005 when they will finally be withdrawn from use. The F-5E will be used until the Eurofighter is fully operational.

The last chance to see the Austrian Draken in action may be the Airpower05 in Zeltweg (24./25.06.2005) or an airshow in Sweden where there is still one in flying condition.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Saab Draken

Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:41 am

Eh, replace the Draken with an F-5?! I know it's a stopgap but how old is the F-5 anyway? Surprising that it is cheaper to phase out one aircraft, then have another (albeit leased) before having a new type. I'm sure they did their maths so this is probably cheaper, but still... Sad to see the Draken go, anyway.
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L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:11 pm

Wasn't Austria at one point conducting a Griphen/Hornet fly-off?

Don't knock the F-5 they are nible little things, the last ones came off the line in what....1986?

And figuring in the Swiss work ethic, I suspect that these are exceptionally well cared for examples.
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TW741
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RE: Saab Draken

Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:11 pm

Just came across this thread while wanting to post a question regarding the Space Shuttle Big grin

Yes Austrian Air Force still uses the Draken, yes a few are out of service as per Rene's answer to Beowulf.
Yes we do get F5´s from Switzerland just to have some metal in the air until we get the praised Eurofighters. I think it is 12 F5´s Austria rented/leased from Swiss airforce.
The funny thing about it: when there was the decision made on the Draken the competitor product was the F5. So finally we get this one to Austria.

Besides me a lot of people still wonder why we need such planes anyway in the Austrian Air Force. We are such a small country - when those fighters fly over Tyrol in the west they hardly can make a normal turn without entering German or Italian airspace  Nuts

For me the best purchase made over the past years where the Herc´s from RAF and the Sikorsky S70A Blackhawk Heli' s....

For those not believing - here are our fabulous F5´s:

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L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:15 pm

Actually those F-5's are pretty good fits for small countries.

Cheap, inexpensive to operate, same engines as on a Lear 25.

Why go for the Eurofighter at all?
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TW741
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RE: Saab Draken

Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:21 pm

L-188:
Why go for the Eurofighter at all?


Please adress this question to the Austrian goverment!
I don't know.
Possible Answers:
- political decision
- economical decision (compensation business)
- ....

I (and almost 90% of the Austrian population) would like to have an answer to your question myself Big grin Big grin

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zhukov
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RE: Saab Draken

Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:12 pm

Switzerland is even smaller than Austria, we have 33 Hornets (34 - one that crashed), and it is said that we may buy some other aircrafts (Gripen?) to replace the F-5E/F, so comparing to my country, Austria seems to be much more reasonable !

What's more, Austria is part of the European Union, so you'll be able to use your Eurofighter in collaboration with other EU countries, specially with Italy, Germany, UK and Spain.

If the decision of Austria to buy Eurofighter takes place in the European global defense question, this purchase seems to be justified to my point of view.

If only Switzerland were part of EU...  Sad

F.Breit.
 
bennett123
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RE: Saab Draken

Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:03 am

How many Draken are still flying/flyable.

I assume that a lot must be stored.
 
TW741
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RE: Saab Draken

Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:37 am

Austria purchased 24 Draken of the J35D series in 1985 (originally built between 1960 and 1963). After renovation and rebuild plus pilot training the Draken finally entered service between June 88 and August 89.
Life prognosis was for 10 years. So we are far beyond that. A further problem is - there are no 2-seater training versions available any more - Finish airforce had the last one ending service by 2000. What I know Austria is the last country having the Drakens in daily regular use.
By 2003 to my knowledge 4 Draken where withdrawn from service, 2005 definitly the last Draken will be gone.

I think I saw a note recently that for the moment 18 Draken are still operational, could be less already as the first F5´s are already in Austria.

=TW741=
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bsergonomics
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RE: Saab Draken

Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:04 am

Re: Austria's Eurofighters.

Austria have signed up for 12 Eurofighters, but with an Entry Into Service (EIS) date beyond 2009 (plus any other slips to the programme).

Although this isn't 100% official, I understand that, in reality, these 12 will come from a batch originally alotted to the Luftwaffe. This is a political decision, since the German Air Force is seriously strapped for cash, while the German Government continually makes noises about buying large parts of new European development programmes (like the - can't remember exactly what it's called 'cos I've been out with that bear this weekend - M-400?).

This way, if the Austrians buy the 12 aircraft (and associated systems), the German order won't be delivered until later, which means they won't have to pay for them until later. If the 12 are taken from the German order, then they won't have to pay for them at all. That said, I'm sure that there was some 'under the table' offset deals to convince the Austrians.

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beowulf
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:04 am

@L-188 and TW741
L-188 asked:
Why go for the Eurofighter at all?

TW741 replied:
Please adress this question to the Austrian goverment!
I don't know.
Possible Answers:
- political decision
- economical decision (compensation business)


I am not the Austrian government, just an ordinary citizen ... hmm, I think it doesn't hurt to have tools in order to defend one's national airspace. The Draken is old and apparently needs to be replaced. All right ... why the Eurofighter (and most expensive choice) then?

IMHO, the military trading business is a rather obscure form of business. One deal results in a counter-deal, etc. It gets down to bribery ... he who bribes best, wins the contract. Since the bozos in government now will need a job once they are thrown out, EADS must have made the best offer. My $0.02. Big grin

@Solnabo

SAAB Draken was one hell of a fighter IMO, and very estetic looking...

Hell of a fighter ... maybe. Esthetic ... ahh, NO.  Smile I think it's an ugly aircraft, no esthetics whatsover. But it's a matter of taste and as the saying goes:"Des goûts et des couleurs, il ne faut pas discuter."  Wink/being sarcastic

Nick
 
TW741
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:44 am


bsergonomics
...some 'under the table' offset deals to convince...

 Wow!  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!


NEVER! No member of any goverment would do this, would they  Nuts?

Really - your "under the table"-sentence made my day  Big thumbs up Big thumbs up

@Beowulf - Servus Nick!! I am not the Austrian government
A pity that you are not in the goverment, maybe we would find some mysterious envelopes under your table?!?

=TW741=



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Jan Mogren
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:18 am

> I think it's an ugly aircraft, no esthetics whatsover <  Confused  Wow!

First time I encounter anyone of that kind of thinking....

/JM

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prebennorholm
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:29 am

Funny thing that the very last operator of the Draken is going to be the US Air Force Test Pilot School. And that will be with a plane which had its first test flight over fifty years ago.

The US planes are, however, the very youngest Drakens - only 30 years old. They are two seaters which were ordered after the Draken production line had been closed down. The Royal Danish Air Force needed a few more two seaters in the mid 70'es when they changed the training program and retired the Lockheed T-33.

The Danish Drakens were rather different compared to the rest. They were based on the J-35F Draken, but not only were they produced to NATO standards, they we also contrary to all other Drakens optimized for the ground attack role. And they were much heavier. Even if we called them F-35 (or RF-35 for the recce capable version), then SAAB called them A-35XD - A for Attack and XD for Export Denmark. No other Drakens carried the A prefix. Most had the J prefix for fighter interceptor, others had S (recce) or SK (two seat trainer).

Flygvapnet (Swedish Air Force) operated the following Draken versions:
J-35A - initial fighter version - most of them soon rebuilt as SK-35C.
J-35B - improved J-35A with new and more powerful afterburner.
SK-35C - two seat trainer - mostly from rebuilt J-35A.
J-35D - very much improved J-35B.
S-35E - recce version of J-35D.
J-35F - last production fighter version with more powerful engine and new weapon systems.
J-35J - extensively upgraded former J-35Fs awaiting JAS-39 Gripen service introduction.

All Austrian Drakens are ex-Flygvapnet J-35Ds.

Finland operated a mixture of J-35B, -D and -F versions, some new built and some ex-Flygvapnet.
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L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:40 am

hmm, I think it doesn't hurt to have tools in order to defend one's national airspace.

No disagreement there.

Still how seriously did yall look at the Griphen and the F-16? Seems both of those would have been better fits for the tight airspace in that part of the world compared to Eurofighter.

Seems a bit big for the job.
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FredT
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RE: Saab Draken

Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:52 pm

F5 is definitely not a fit. The turn radius makes it impossible to remain within the country!  Big grin
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L-188
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RE: Saab Draken

Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:16 pm

Funny thing that the very last operator of the Draken is going to be the US Air Force Test Pilot School. And that will be with a plane which had its first test flight over fifty years ago.

Actually it is the National Test Pilot School in Mojave, and it is not connected or part of the USAF. Just a private flight school.

http://www.ntps.com/

FredT funny you say that about the F5. My understanding was that was a pretty nimble aircraft, which is why the US used it to simulate MIGS at Top Gun and Red Flag.

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MissedApproach
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RE: Saab Draken

Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:31 pm

The F-5 has a good turn radius. Range & payload were weak points, but not manouverability. We had Kelowna Flightcraft modify several, maybe 8 years ago, strengthening the airframes for DACM against the F-18's. Once finished they were immediately mothballed to cut costs, & I believe sold off a few years later.
Just so I'm not too far off topic, I think the Draken was a fine looking aircraft
 Big grin
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