AATriple7
Topic Author
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:22 am

Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:52 am

I am looking to join the USAF, I am thinking I should do the ROTC in college (hopefully at the University of Oklahoma). After id really like to fly a F-16, or A-10 but IM already 6 foot, and I don't think id be able to fit in one of those things. So I was thinking of a E-3 Sentry, or a B-1. Can anyone confirm the max height for a AF pilot?

If anyone on this board is in the AF and can just tell me how you like it please tell me, and try to answer my questions.

Thank you very much.

USAF
 
SATL382G
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:28 am

Take a read thru this and let us know if you have questions

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/23621/

SATL382G

ex-USAF
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
AATriple7
Topic Author
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:22 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:36 am

Thanks you very much, but id like to know if IM to tall to fly a fighter of any kind, and if so what would I be able to fly.

And if I do the ROTC in college, what do I do? I don't know what the AF ROTC does to prepare you for the Force when you get out of college, also is the ROTC even a smart way to go? Or should enlist right after high school?
USAF
 
AATriple7
Topic Author
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:22 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:39 am

And also, if I fly a E-3 what are my chances of getting base @ Tinker? If I would fly an F-16 would I be trained @ Luke?
USAF
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:09 am

Regarding the Sentry, AA, there are 3 bases that operate the E-3 for the USAF - Tinker AFB, Elmendorf AFB, and Kadena AB. Kadena and Elmendorf both have one squadron of E-3s each, while the bulk of the E-3s (6 squadrons). Based on the odds alone, you have the best shot of being assigned to Tinker, but keep in mind that TDYs tend to affect the E-3 community a fair amount.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:10 am

I'm 6'3.5'' and I flew an F-18D sim with room to spare. I dont know about the F-16, as it is smaller than the Hornet but Im sure you'll be fine.

I would say ROTC is a smart choice, you could be in for a few years before you are up for officer, after that, flight school.

In NROTC (Navy ROTC) here at Purdue, you are basically taught how to be in the military. Upkeep of uniforms, customs, traditions, ranks, leadership skills, etc.
Life is better when you surf.
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:58 am

You're not to tall to be a pilot in the F-16, we have many pilots that are over 6ft here at Shaw. You'll put in a lot of long days, while in flight school and once you get to your first operational duty assignment.

For a really good rundown of what it's like to fly and E-3 look for Lt-AWACS on here. He's a air battle manager on them, and he'll be able to fill you in on what a typical day for their pilots is like.

I'd suggest ROTC, but dont limit yourself to only one school, I've known folks that were able to get scholarships at one school, but not at the one they wanted to go to. The main empahsis for me when I picked my college was I went where I felt I could get the most quality and perform the best.

Also, you don't have to have receive a scholarship in order to be in ROTC and get commissioned. I never had one.
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:00 am

You are NOT too tall to fly a fighter, even the F-16. So don't worry about that. I've seen A-10 dudes that gotta be at least 6"2 or 6"4. There was a linebacker or offensive lineman for the cowboys who flew A-10s in the first gulf war. That guy was around 6"5 and 250 pounds. I'm sure it was a tight squeeze, but he did it.

You'd want to fly the E-3? I guess there's a first for everything. Odds are (greater than 90%) that you'll go to Tinker if you're "lucky" enough to get the Wacker out of UPT. If you don't mind my asking, why would you want an AWACS? The Bone I can understand, but you can do alot better than doing orbits for 12 hours being a bus driver for all the goats in the back. There are other heavy airframes within spitting distance of Oklahoma if you want to be near there.
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:04 pm

AATriple7

Go checkout the forums at http://www.military.com

They have a couple dedicated to recruiting and I know that a couple of actual recruiters hang out there.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:53 pm

First off, you have to get commissioned first, through ROTC, OTS or the Academy, before you can even think of flying. Then you have to get a Pilot Slot. ROTC and OTS are the hardest ways to get pilot slots. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but towards the end of UPT, you'll put in for fighter, bomber or cargo. Depending on how well you do in UPT will determine which one you get, and then depending on how well you do in those trainer airframes and all will determine which a/c you actually get.
I wouldn't look at getting an aircraft just for base location either. And, I don't know if you can go straight out of UPT to a B-1.
In either case, you have a long road ahead of you, and chances of you getting a pilot slot are not as high as you might think (between medical and selection etc..).
Also, you're more than likely not too tall to fly a fighter (you're height is not an issue, and although I dunno your sitting height, it should probably not be an issue), but there are a lot more extensive medical checks you'll have to go through and pass before you're even considered for UPT.
Don't know much about ROTC, but from what I've heard basically you learn to wear the uniform, learn the AF customs, get accustomed to the military etc...
Anyway, good luck!
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:54 am

ROTC and OTS are not the hardest ways to get a pilot slot. If you are medically, mentally, academically qualifiable, then you have a pretty good chance of getting into SUPT. (btw, it's offically now called Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training)

It is not an easy road, and there are some pretty queepy reasons as to why some folks dont make it through, but if you study hard, and keep your grades up, you're doing about as much as you can to get yourself where you want to be. Like anything in life, there sometimes comes a point when a little bit of luck is involved. You can get a waiver for darned near anything, usually comes down to just being in the right place at the right time and asking the right person.

One last thing, just because one person tells you you aren't qualifiable for whatever reason, get a second opinion. Whether it's a freaking general telling you, or someone you're in class with. The one thing I've learned in my 5yrs in is that if you get the response you're not looking for, ask someone else until you do (within reason of course)

Acadamy grads probably do have a little bit of an edge, but it's not really that much in the grand scheme of things, considering that ROTC is where the bulk of all commisioned officers come from. The air force is still experiencing a pilot shortage, even with the force reductions (exuse me "force slimming") that the air force is doing right now. Most of those jobs that the air force is reducing manning in are jobs that are not critical to putting warheads on foreheads. (you won't see any maintance troops, pilots, controller's etc getting forced out)

As far as how SUPT runs, first off, everyone starts out in either the T-37 or the T-6. By the time you get to flight school, all of the T-37's should have been phased out by then. I don't remember the time frame, but you'll either then break off and start flying the T-1, or the T-38. If you go into T-1's your gonna fly cargo, or tankers (this would also include the E-3) when you graduate. If you go into T-38's you'll fly either fighters or bombers when you graduate. There is also the chance that if you were to fly C-130's the the air force would send you to NAS Corpus Christi to finish SUPT flying C-12's, OR, if you were to go fly helo's for the air force, you would go to Ft. Rucker to finish flight school when you completed the T-37 phase.

Like I stated earlier, hope you like long hours, on average most of the pilots here put in 12hour+ days. (We have F-16's here at Shaw) Different airframes require more or less time. If you ask any of them if it's worth it, they'll freely admit the hours do suck, but it is worth it to do what they're doing.

Jcxp15: You do a little more than learn to wear the uniform and customs and courtisies in ROTC...not much more, but you do learn more.... Big thumbs up
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:25 pm

AFHokie:

Hence ROTC and OTS are the hardest ways, at least compared to the other alternative. From what I understand, most ROTC detachments only send one or two graduates to UPT on average. The ways things are now, as long as you graduate from the Academy, and you are medically qualified, and you want to be a pilot, you'll get a UPT, ehh SUPT slot. (and usually you can't have an Art. 15 or UIF).
Now if you want to live a more normal college life, and are very smart, in shape and do well in your ROTC detachment, you'll proably get the pilot slot. I'm pretty sure Grad school is also a lot easier to get paid for by the Air Force coming from the Academy, but I don't have numbers on that.
As you said, the Air Force is in need of pilots which is why there are so many slots available, and still should be in at leats the next 5 years.

All that stuff aside, you bring up a really good point about the medical stuff though. Always get a second or third opinion. The eye doctor the AF sent me to to get my initial evaluation as to whether being PQ or not completely messed up, and I got a second opinion which gave me the real results. (I had this also looked at by another AF opto).

Anyway, good luck in your endeavors AATriple7!
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:18 am

My detachment at Va Tech was getting Pilot slots for anyone who was qualifiable and wanted one. There were 11 of us total that were commissioned together when I graduated in the fall of 99, and 6 were going to flight school. The rest of us were either not qualifiable, or did not want to fly. (I was not qualifiable for anyone that is wondering) Then again, that was over 5yrs ago, but from what I've seen, and read, it hasn't changed.

As far as getting grad school paid for by the air force, what your commissioning source is has no bearing on whether or not they'll pick up the tab. If anything what your job in the air force is has the most bearing, i.e. will providing you the opportunity to earn this degree make you better at your daily core job skills. Probably second is how well you did while you were in school for your undergrad. Different career fields in the air force have differing continuing education needs. In reality, as a pilot, you probably have the hardest chance of getting the air force to send you to grad school, they want you in the cockpit, not at a desk. Intelligence folks usually have the widest array of opportunities to pick up a masters degree on the air force's tab.

what's making OTS so tough right now is that they cut the number of folks they're accepting to OTS period, unless you have a technical degree or competing for a flying careerfield, you aren't even considered for selection to OTS. If anything, that has increased the percentage of pilots coming out of OTS

Ok, before I write a novel, I'll get off my soapbox  Big grin
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:03 am

To add to AFhokie's post here's what happens at SUPT. The timelines are rough, but pretty close to what it really is. This is all secondhand from the pilots I fly with;

First 5 weeks. Slackademics. Learning all the science behind flying, life support equipment, aerospace physiology, ejection seats, etc.

Week 6-26. Flightline training. The stick is in your hands (sts) with an instructor behind or to the side of you. The last few rides you solo and then get checked out.

Depending on factors like class rank, your desires, needs of the AF, your instructor and more importantly your flight commander's recommendations, you'll go from primary (T-6 and T-37) to one of four tracks;

T-38= Fighter/attack/bomber track. Anyone who wants to shoot missiles or blow shit up has to go to the T-38 first. Very competitive, and those who do poorly in 38s end up driving an AWACS or J-stars or a bomber if they're lucky because ACC owns their butt and will put you where they want.

T-1= Tanker/airlift track. If you're not 100% positive you want to fly fighters you might want to look more closely at this one and the following. Fighters are NOT for everybody. The flying is less demanding but still requires 100% focus and attention to detail. You can't eject if you fuck something up.

T-44= Turboprop (C-130) track. Don't really know much about this one, except you train under navy rules (This is a good thing) at NAS Corpus Christi in texas in a mil King Air. The only complaint I've heard from Herk drivers is the plane is too slow. But who else does 12 ship SKE formations through a valley on NVGs?

UH-1= Helo track. Don't know too much about this one either except that you go down to Fort Rucker, Alabama, and the army teaches you their style of flying. Then you go to Kirtland AFB, NM for the AF to re-teach you how to fly AF style on HH-60s or MH-53s. Also a cool job. But definitely requires more hand-eye coordination than the other tracks.

Whatever track you're in, it'll take around 6 months to get through it. So over all you're eating up an entire year just to earn your wings.

Then, along with class rank, desires, etc as factors, you are assigned to whatever airplane you will fly. Ie, you're almost done in T-38s, you find out you're getting an A-10 or F-15E after IFF.

After that you still have FTU along with IFF for fighter guys. You're looking at a year and a half to 2 years from the time you show up at SUPT to the time you're fully qualled in your new jet.

It's all on you really. What kind of flying do you want to do?
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:29 pm

Dave (AFHokie) is correct, ROTC is fairly easy to get a flying slot out of.
Overall OTS is the hardest to fly out of, of the 3 main Active commissioning sources, as it is the easiest to regulate over a short period of time- whereas the Academy and ROTC take years to implement changes not weeks.
Some of the smaller units ROTCmight only get 1 or 2 slots a year, but normal units get plenty currently. That of course can always change, as it did in the early mid-90s when 1-2 slots was normal. But currently if you are qualified, have a good commander ranking, and decent grades your golden.


Also as AFHokie noted, grad school payment has nothing to do with commissioning source. TA-Tuition Assistance is now 100% for all classes with a 2 year commitment added on, this is for every officer regardless of commissioning source.( GI Bill does, that is more after-the-fact payments and academy grads and 4yr ROTC scholarship people are not eligible)


To note from a few other points above,
- You can get B-1s straight out of pilot training.
-Your sitting height is more important than your standing height when it comes to fighter UPT, and this will be measured during your initial flight physical that goes with the UPT application (along with your PCSM score [BAT test, flying hours, and AFOQT score])
- You will normally sit on casual status for several months before beginning SUPT
- remember the commitment is 10 years right now, and that is after you get your wings, so make sure you want to go the career route

AAtriple7 if you do go to Zero U their ROTC unit comes to Tinker as part of Op Target quite often and fly an E-3 sortie (about once a semester) so you can check it out early. You also get to go see the Vipers in Tulsa and/or Ft Smith, the Flying Gas Cans at Tinker and/or Wichita, and Herkys at Will Rogers

If you want to fly E-3s at Tinker that is a very doable thing. You can get the heavy track out of UPT fairly easily, and you can track E-3s fairly easy, I know several folks who wanted E-3s and went that route. 28 of the 32 E-3s are at Tinker so you normally stay on station longer than average. Officers basically homestead at Tinker for at least 4-5 years average.
The Reserve Unit is also an option, with TDY rates a bit lower than the Active force, as E-3s are TDY more than any other airframe

ROTC is a good choice IMO, better than the Academy,if you like more freedoms and a traditional college experience. And now all commisionees from all sources get a Reserve commission with Regular commissions coming at the Major's board.



Hey Dave, call me or email me if you get a chance re:Comer  Big grin

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Texas-It's bigger than France
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:45 pm

AFHokie:

Just curious, any reason you chose not to go the rated route? What kind of officer were you? (I think I recall you saying you're now out).
From what I've heard from several ROTC cadets I know and actually spent time with, they were telling me you had to be pretty good to get the UPT slot, since most detachments were only sending a handful to UPT. I guess it all depends on detachment and slot availability. I believe ROTC/OTS and the Academy get around equal number of pilot slots per year, but the Academy has those slots for 900 graduates, which only about 1/2 want to/can actually fly (meaning almost anyone who wants one gets one) where as ROTC/OTS have to spread them out among thousands.

About the grad school thing, I know that the Academy sends quite a few people right after graduation to grad school, even guys who will be going to SUPT after grad school. (I know a 2004 guy who's in grad school who had a "guaranteed" pilot slot after he finishes, and have heard of several more). But like you said, a lot depends on what type of field you go into. Isn't grad school now a requirement to pin on O-5 or O-6?


Duce50boom:

Thanks for the basic rundown of SUPT. Just a quick curiosity question, do you know how FAIP's and airframe selection works? Would a T-38 IP know what airframe he or she is going to before the IP assignment, or does that come after the assignment when he or she will be moving on?

Also, how's being a boom op? It seems like a sweet job. How are most of the KC-10 crews? I ran into one from I think Maguire a few weeks back and although I talked primarily to the pilots, everyone seemed like they loved the job.
Thanks!
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:52 pm

AWACS:

The 2 year commitment for grad school can be served concurrently with the 5 year commitment after commissioning from either ROTC or the Academy for non-rated guys, correct?

Also, from what I hear the casual status is money, literally. Know some guys who push paper around, show up at work for several hours a day, just waiting for their SUPT date.

Also got a question for your field. Might sound naive, but what exactly is a air battle manager? I think I remember you saying somewhere that you attended UPT, but now that I think about it, maybe not. Anyway, did you want to do AWACS stuff, or did you get put in there, and how's it treating you?
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:08 pm

ABM is a make work job for UPT washouts  Laugh out loud.

Jcxp15,

They used to be guaranteed their follow on when they got their FAIP assignment. So a guy could be a T-38 FAIP with a tanker follow on, or a tweet FAIP with a fighter follow on. Same way with guys in OSA (C-21). They'd know where they were going afterwards. Now you're in the same pot as everyone else when it comes to assignments. They did it like that before because FAIP slots were a bad deal, so to get more guys to go into it they offered the carrot of a guaranteed follow on. Now with the TDY rate being so high people are jumping at the chance to be a FAIP, or at least go back and be an SUPT instructor after their MWS tour.

Being a boomer? It's a sweet gig. I see the world, pass gas, and get paid for it. The travel is great, the per diem is better, and most of the crews are cool. The biggest downside is the TDY rate. You're not stuck in a tent for 4 months at a stretch, but you're looking at a week home, 2 weeks on the road. 2 weeks back and then a 60 day desert deployment, repeat. Things like that are pretty tough, there's not much continuity and stability. But we've got it great compared to the Barney and Herky dudes. Those guys are hurting!
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:13 am

I wouldn't say that I didn't choose to go the rated route, but rather the choice was made for me. I'm still in the air force, but if I told you what I did, the men in black suits would have to come wave a flashy light in your eyes...

You can go direct to grad school right after commissioning from ROTC too, a couple of folks I went to school with did that, and some are now pilots. I don't remember the name of the program, but essentially what happens is that you get commissioned, and know what your careerfield will be when you do go on active duty, but until you finish gradschool, you're considered inactive reserve. You can wear you're uniform with your rank, but will receive no pay, and no benefits. Yes you do have to have an advanced degree to pin on O-5, and it's a pretty good idea to have it completed, or very close to completion when you get to the point you're competing for O-4

As far as getting FAIPed (First Assignment Instructor Pilot) you'd find that out when your flight school class found out what aircraft they were going to fly once out of flight school. You could've ended up in the fighter/bomber track flying T-38's, but then end up spending your first duty assignment teaching in the T-37/T-6, or stay in the T-38 as an instructor. Either way when you went to your assignment after that, you'd go to either fighters or bombers. The same holds true for those that got the tanker/transport route in the T-1. Only you would of course go onto fly a tanker or a cargo. You wont see someone that was FAIP'ed in T-38's then go on to fly tankers, or cargo unless they decided somewhere along the line after flight school that they didn't want to fly fighters.

 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:08 am

About the FAIP thing, I was talking about whether the IP had a specific fighter or bomber airframe (i.e. going from the T-38 to the 15 or 16 or B1), or if that came after the FAIP assignment.
About the whole pay thing, that's only if you choose to actually pay for grad school correct? The people I know are there on the Air Force's buck, and are making O-1 pay, plus BAH and BAS...
So what, are you some OSI or Intel dude? hehe
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:43 am

Ignore Duce50 -the poor kid's words should be taken with a grain of salt. This is the same kid who said he heard all that went on during the war, from his gas pump, when his aircraft doesn't have the radios nor Satcom capabilities to hear things. I find ignoring him is best.

As to the points at hand
First Question:
"Also got a question for your field. Might sound naive, but what exactly is a air battle manager? I think I remember you saying somewhere that you attended UPT, but now that I think about it, maybe not. Anyway, did you want to do AWACS stuff, or did you get put in there, and how's it treating you? "

You have to apply to become an ABM on the same AF Form 215 as Pilots and Navs, (and ENJJPT), you apply like any rated career field and get a class 3 physical

- I did want to be an ABM, it is one of the 3 rated flying career fields, and of course being rated and getting flight pay is a good thing. Also ABMs are the highest paid Line officers in the Air Force, not that we do it for the money, but the old ABM commitment was 3 years (it is 6 now) and we get a $15k a year bonus after 3 years. So you are making what every one else makes, plus flight pay, plus a bonus before anyone else. That is always a good thing. Other than being in Oklahoma much of the time (though I get liberal leave, and time off via the wing) things are great.

As for other flying: I am working my UPT slot issues with the TX ANG right now (that is probably what you heard me talk about), though I have a really good knowledge of the program through friends, co-workers and my own applications. I am a private pilot which you might have seen me talk about in the Civ Section often.

In the E-3 You are always the first to go to any deployment, the first to take off, and the last the land in theatre, and the one generating the ATO via Combat Ops and Combat Plans. ABMs hold the hammer in AOCs and CAOCs. not to mention the NORAD slots. Of course flying every exercise and going to so many various TDYs is great for me. Some with Children don't like the TDY but I do. We are the most TDY Line Career field. We were also the only airframe onstation 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 8 months straight, from the morning of Sept 11. Not only are there the controlling slots but various Command and Control slots throughout the MajComs. Not to mention Weapons School at Nellis.

" The 2 year commitment for grad school can be served concurrently with the 5 year commitment after commissioning from either ROTC or the Academy for non-rated guys, correct? "

-The service commitments are concurrent-- being rated has nothing to do with it.
A flying Rating is limited to 3 types of Flyers, Pilots, Navigators, and Air Battle Managers.
These are the 3 flying rated career fields and have no bearing on anything other than pay and command position availability.

JCXP -are you talking about people in the AFIT system, when you talk about your O-1 friends? That is the program for full time grad students, where you go to Wright-Pat or a traditional Grad school and get a masters while getting paid.
TA is while you are on active duty, and take night, weekend, or other types of classes.

AF Hokie was a good controller, but the system at Tyndall was broken back in the day --and he is correct on the FAIP issue.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns
Capt-AWACS, I'd rather be drinking a beer in Houston than a martini in your piss-ant town
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:43 am

Screw you AWACS. You forget to wipe the sand from your ass or something? It was a joke. Although I've met more than a few ABMs who washed out of UPT.

First off, I never said I heard all that went on. I said you guys acted like a bunch of idiots, especially compared to the Brits. It doesn't take a braniac to figure out you goats don't know your job when they ask a KC-10 if they can reciever A/R at the same time they do tanker A/R. Or waiting 5 or 10 minutes for AWACS to "make a decision" and then have them tell us "words from *****. You're to consolidate with ***** 69 in the ***** track". I don't have any false perceptions about what I do. Although I read a post from you last week that said when goats on the AWACS ride in the jumpseat for T/O, A/R, and landing you're "providing a 5th set of eyes for clearance". Please. You have no place in the cockpit, that's why your called a goat. And from talking to former wacker FEs, you're treated the same as any space A pax. Know your place in the world guy

Hokie,

Back in the day of UPT, when everyone went through 38s, you could go from being a 38 FAIP to flying tankers or lifters. Now that it's SUPT with tracks, it's different. I should've clarified that with my last post
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:29 am

Quit hijacking threads,


See ladies and gentlemen, the maturity level of this kid comes though again, please save yourself, though I need the laugh after a long day of golf waiting for a new fiscal year.
Would you like me to post your last email to me?? remember your comedy in that little gem???, I didn't respond because you didn't seem to comprehend basic points of fact in the other emails and posts, and you still don't.

And by the way kid, what incorrect statements have I posted in this or any other thread???
Still waiting for one. The fact you might of heard a junior tank controller who was busy controlling over 10 tracks and 30+ aircraft at one time, and the fact the CAOC has no tank plan, we must fix the ATO real time, and you have issues with a few errors from one crew, on one freq, when there are 100s of controllers, and you heard someone ask you a question you found funny. Well you should have answered the question. It is called Maturity.

When you go through some AF Combat Plans schools, some "Major War Plans" training and exercises, shops come talk to me, otherwise keep pumping gas, or what ever you do since you are getting out soon. Good luck though kid.

Actually you also show your ignorance again re: Seat 5.
Seat 5 in the E-3 cockpit is a regulated position in AFI 11-2E3 and any person in it must be briefed and any E-3 crew member in it is by regs a 5th set of eyes. That is the point of the position. Other Pilots, comm techs and ABMs are in it during all critical phases of flight.

Once again kid you pump gas (I am sure you are good at it though at least you aren't sucking up my tax dollars on welfare), you are "self loading baggage" as they say at Red Flag,
----and responsible for the most emergency separations and Class B mishaps last FY (per capita KC-10s via Kirtland's safety webpage) So maybe you should study your own regs before trying to understand other webpages

I know most of the FEs at Tinker and never heard one once say the word Goat. If this word makes you feel better about your low self esteem because you couldn't get into the academy that is your problem.
If you find it funny go for it, it is not a term used at Tinker, though some old timers tell me it was around in the 80s.

I'll continue with the Combat Plans and Command and Control training and let you clean my windshields when you are done with the Gas  Smile (yes I am a dick sometimes huh)

Also, since there are Brits and Americans on both Brit and US E-3s at any given time, even by accent you don't know who you are talking too. Also, depending on which set of receivers we are prepping for attack (see we have controllers putting together packages to actually kill people and win wars ASAP) you don't hear all the coordination amongst the various C2 nodes on who gets what gas when. And as I have said many times the Brits are overall the best Controllers in the air and on the ground in the world. They are also the best tanker crews in the world as noted by the VC-10 and Tri-Star reports and LL from OIF/OEF/OAF.

So when you get the big picture, maybe read a few books on post OIF missions, via Nellis SIPRNET you will have a better understanding of the big picture. I can suggest a few for you.



Space A pax are not rated flyers, so by admission if your statement on Space A pax was true, you fall into the same boat kid. So welcome to the world of Space A, and since your aircraft carries them, while the E-3 does not, you are now the forum Space A expert, congrats LOL

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Seven Continents Down, None to Go
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:34 pm

Wow, such hostility... I love it! jk jk

In any case, yep AWACS, what I was talking about the whole grad school thing is AFIT, and yea I know it has nothing to do with being rated or not (dunno why I put that in up there). Sounds like an awesome deal from what I hear. Like I said, I got friends in Boston, NY, England etc.. doing nothing but getting paid to go to grad school. They have to report into some base like twice a month, so most have beards and long hair.

So AWACS are you trying to get to UPT sometime in the near future?

The flying hours must be really great in AWACS, but from I hear it's real boring (what I hear). It gets a really bad rep here, especially from the fighter and bomber dudes, so maybe that has something to do with it. The bonus and TDY pay sound sweet though!
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:03 am

Yeah I'm a hater...... LOL

As for AFIT, it is a good deal. I knew folks back at UT that had just gotten commissioned and then came to Austin getting full pay and BAH, and had to wear the uniform once a week (to help with ROTC) and that was it. Good deal indeed. Tuition Assistance is available to every officer at 100% with the 2 year commitment tagged on (concurrent).

ABM,
From the Senior Director perspective (the type of ABM I am now, though I am dual qualed and am still an Instructor Air Weapons Officer also) it is never really boring. Flying hours can be at least 16-20 hours a week and sometimes up to 50-60 depending on mission.

The Noble Eagle Missions after Sept 11th were very boring (this is good though meaning the US wasn't under attack). Basically controlling 1-2 fighter caps, and a tanker over DC and/or NYC, and sometimes Crawford, Texas etc. Not allot to do.

During the wars you were in your seat 8-10 hours straight, working TST, CAS, Tanking, Check In, OCA, DCA, and Strike controller-- so it was very busy, especially the Time Critical Targeting we were working.

Normal Controlling Sorties or Red Flags are very very busy in the Weapons pit, surveillance has its own area of responsibility and our ECO-Electronic Combat Officer is an army of one, working Electronic issues (a mini Rivet Joint basically)

yeah I must admit the ABM Pay is the best, I'd actually take an AF pay cut going guard pilot, but I have a better job in the civilian world available. I am working a guard slot with the TX ANG as my primary, though I have some others I am working. If not I will probably go reserves in the E-3.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Uncle Sam's AWAX, The Best Shine for Your Jet

[Edited 2004-10-01 01:05:17]
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:48 am

Can't we all just get along.....lol

Yea, the T-37 to T-38 track for all student pilots went away with the intro of the T-1 in 1994. I should've mentioned that.
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:54 am

Dave, we all need a hug Fool's style .....

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
SATL382G
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:46 am

Well all this time I thought the gamesmanship just happened in groundpounder sqdns. I see from above posts that zippersuits have that trouble too.

As for me I got tired of it at the office/on the ramp. My retirement is effective in about 3 and half hours. I turn in my DD2AF (or whatever the new ID card is called) tommorrow.

AATriple7: USAF is sometimes thorns and sometimes roses, but it is always what YOU make of it. If you take the mindset that it sucks, well then it's gonna suck. If on the other hand you decide to take advantage of the opportunities it presents (this usually happens when everyone else thinks it sucks) then it will payoff for you. Good Luck!

SATL382G
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:30 pm

No, you quit hijacking threads or I'm telling your mom! Get a life

To start with, I need the laugh after a long day of golf waiting for a new fiscal year. has gotta be some of the gayest shit I've ever heard. You've outdone yourself with that one. Congrats.

To continue, "Junior controller" my ass. If so, all of your tanker controllers must be junior since you idiots couldn't tell which way was which. Back at Al Udeid we had a whiteboard that was filled with the utterly retarded statements or questions the AWACS controllers would let run from their mouths. Reality check guy, it's a systemic problem with you fools, not a question of one or two inexperienced controllers.

CAOC has no tank plan, we must fix the ATO real time, and you have issues with a few errors from one crew, on one freq?

If CAOC has no tank plan then tell the other goats not to think out loud. The Brits didn't seem to have that problem. The only outside people who actually appreciate you and the job your doing are 4 ship flight leads. And that's because they have the experience to filter out the comm jam you normally fill the airwaves with.

Wow, so you went to some AF combat plans schools. I guess the standards aren't that high to get in there. Maybe some non rated aircrew like me can get in there. After all, they take goats. I've heard of self loading baggage, but it's not a regular insult. So you've heard the phrase before at Nellis. Big deal. So one or two AWACS fags call a boomer self loading baggage. Even goats gotta try to prop themselves up. You're lying if you say you've never heard someone call you a goat. Every former wacker crewmember I've ever met refers to you people as goat. Live with it

Seat 5 in the E-3 cockpit is a regulated position in AFI 11-2E3 and any person in it must be briefed and any E-3 crew member in it is by regs a 5th set of eyes

Wow, the jump seat in the 10 is a regulated seat too. It sure does sound impressive, until you understand what "regulated" means. The AC has to approve of anyone sitting in it. We brief pax who sit in our "seat 5" too. 5th set of eyes means nothing if you're not trained on what's going on. Most of you idiots couldn't find the VSI or HSI, except for the resident UPT-washout ABM onboard.

As far as your stats. I wish I had no life so I could cruise the AFSC's webpage looking for stats to use against someone else. Your words hurt so much. We had 2 class B mishaps last year. Wow. I'm too lazy to actually look up what those 2 involved but in any case AWACS had 1. So if you interpolate 30-ish E-3s with 59 KC-10s you get roughly the same average. Twice the number of jets, twice the number of class Bs. And emergency seps? You have anything to say about that one? A huge number of factors go into that. The receiver could have too high a closure rate (not the tanker's fault) and kick off the autopilot. Your numbers are as worthless as your words.

To finish off the rest of your garbage:

If this word makes you feel better about your low self esteem because you couldn't get into the academy that is your problem

Like I'd even want to go there. Too many rules, not enough alcohol, and way too many women with CHD. Maybe you wanted to go there but got rejected, but the AF academy crossed my mind for about 10 seconds, when I was a freshman in HS.

let you clean my windshields when you are done with the Gas (yes I am a dick sometimes huh)

No, you're a moron all of the time. I shudder to think someone who's graduated from college could utter an insult that lame. Maybe your mom isn't the person to consult when you need a quick insult.

Also, since there are Brits and Americans on both Brit and US E-3s at any given time, even by accent you don't know who you are talking too.

You ever notice that Brit and US AWACS have different callsigns? Yup, they do. When whoever tells us to switch to "*******" we know who it is simply by looking at our yoke note. Thinking out loud again?

Space A pax are not rated flyers, so by admission if your statement on Space A pax was true, you fall into the same boat kid......you are now the forum space A expert. Congrats

Flight Engineers aren't rated flyers. Are you going to call any of the ones in your squadron space A's? I thought not. Space A expert? Since you've got an opinion about everything else on these forums, why don't you take over as expert. I'm sure you'll get an air medal out of it. Making your position a rated flying listing filled your head pretty quickly. It's an empty title when it comes to ABMs. Realistically speaking, the only rated fliers are pilots and navs.

You have no checklist steps in the cockpit, when you sit down in seat 5 you are nothing more than a passenger. So shut the f**k up, enjoy the ride, then go back to your place in the plane.......NOT IN THE COCKPIT and talk about how you could've been a pilot, but actually wanted to be a goat.


 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:36 pm

"No, you quit hijacking threads or I'm telling your mom! Get a life"
That in itself is profound, just let it sink in LOL Your abundant vocabulary amazes us all. And of course the gas passer hijack continues LOL
As MasterCard would say, Priceless



"To start with, I need the laugh after a long day of golf waiting for a new fiscal year. has gotta be some of the gayest shit I've ever heard. You've outdone yourself with that one. Congrats."

'Gay'. Are you not secure in your sexuality? I know two recent boomers at Wichita got busted out of the AF for Homo conduct, at least according to news, were they your pals??
Nothing odd about my statement, We had the whole week off, until Friday.
Monday was an ACC down day, Tuesday a training day, Wednesday a Family day, and Thursday only for essential personnel. I live on a Golf Course in OKC as AF HOKIE can attest, and I played golf all week. So thanks for asking though.



"To continue, "Junior controller" my ass. If so, all of your tanker controllers must be junior since you idiots couldn't tell which way was which. Back at Al Udeid we had a whiteboard that was filled with the utterly retarded statements or questions the AWACS controllers would let run from their mouths. Reality check guy, it's a systemic problem with you fools, not a question of one or two inexperienced controllers."

Funny I was at Al Udeid several times and didn't see it, but I can say, we have a doofer board of Fighter Pilot screw ups throughout the war, and of course the Doofer book at Red Flag is priceless. The most comm buffoonery in war comes from 15C drivers, they are big fans of 3-1 Comm (do you know what that means? BTW) As 3-1 says "trucker comm" is always a fallback in a real world scenario.
Anyway, other than 4 of the 18 crews, the Tank controller was the most junior, but of course you don't know how the training works do you, you have no idea. You have no idea how the war works either. You don't have the freqs, radios and Satcoms to know..... The senior controllers need to work the TST and CAS support to people actually getting shot at and dropping bombs.

"CAOC has no tank plan, we must fix the ATO real time, and you have issues with a few errors from one crew, on one freq?
If CAOC has no tank plan then tell the other goats not to think out loud. The Brits didn't seem to have that problem. The only outside people who actually appreciate you and the job your doing are 4 ship flight leads. And that's because they have the experience to filter out the comm jam you normally fill the airwaves with. "
Also to show your ignorance of the war and its plans, the 4 ship lead is not a priority, as there was no air-to-air threat. Vipers, Beagles, Hornets, Tornadoes, and Bones were the priorities who we work with, setting up strike packages to go down and work emerging targets. Do you know what those are?
Funny since you don't have the radios to monitor such things you wouldn't know kid. Quit trying to discuss things you know nothing about. It only makes it worse

"Wow, so you went to some AF combat plans schools. I guess the standards aren't that high to get in there."
-Maybe you should look up the standards and see what happens over the 2+ years of ABM (both E-8 and E-3) training. I cannot help the fact you are uneducated, and since you are getting out of the AF per your previous emails, that tells me you cannot continue to be promote-able. Kind of sad. Remember if you are going to pull a knife pull a sharp one.

"Maybe some non rated aircrew like me can get in there. "
Doubtful, as the tankers have a separate school and are not part of ACC Weapons school, JCMD, Top Gun, JICO or any of the other courses out there. AMC has their own "weapons school" for tanker pilots.

"After all, they take goats. I've heard of self loading baggage, but it's not a regular insult. So you've heard the phrase before at Nellis. Big deal. "
You are a gas passer, there are plenty of phrases out there, some to vile to post on a public forum but I am sure you have heard them and their fallic references. I can list many for various positions from Pilots to Combat Controllers-CCTs. They used most of them at Fairchild for SERE and Survival school, I am sure you remember.

"So one or two AWACS fags call a boomer self loading baggage."
No no one I know thinks about Boomers, as no one cares, you are a dime a dozen, there are 600 + tankers, and 32 E-3s, we are HVAA, and our status is briefed to the President every day, you are a gas passer, which is important as I have noted before, but not all encompassing. The Self loading baggage came from a Tanker Crew Chief and some pilots at Travis.

"Even goats gotta try to prop themselves up. "
No need, I know what I do, I've been through the combat sorties, schools, training, flags, and upgrades to know what I do. The work I do that can't be discussed on a public forum is plenty of motivation and job satisfaction for me. Never said it was better or worse than others in my field, though one should keep a drive to be the best in their job.
I am content, it seems you have an inferiority complex, but that is okay, you are young, and from a failed public education system, so I forgive you. America is on a downhill slide.

"You're lying if you say you've never heard someone call you a goat. "
THe first person I ever heard "Goat" from was actually a former E-3 pilot who was now in Tankers-- that was in 2002, at Al Udeid actually. Oddly enough our pilots ripped him a new one for saying it, but most of the guys at Niagra flying "Fuzzy" were ripped Airline pilots and a little bitter themselves.
See there is no strife at Tinker, though Robbins and the E-8 is another story.

"Every former wacker crewmember I've ever met refers to you people as goat."

" Live with it" I'll live with the $76,000+ (public record BTW) a year very fine, and you can say goat all you want LOL
See the beauty is I don't care. I found some old 80's patches with a goat on it as a term of honour even LOL. Honestly in the grand scheme of things when I wan't your opinion I'll give it to you kid.
I'm in it for the lifestyle.

"Seat 5 in the E-3 cockpit is a regulated position in AFI 11-2E3 and any person in it must be briefed and any E-3 crew member in it is by regs a 5th set of eyes
Wow, the jump seat in the 10 is a regulated seat too. It sure does sound impressive, until you understand what "regulated" means. The AC has to approve of anyone sitting in it. We brief pax who sit in our "seat 5" too. 5th set of eyes means nothing if you're not trained on what's going on."

All E-3 crew are trained in seat 5, all evac procedures, and several techs are primary fire-fighters, evac leaders and other issues. You should not speak on what you do not know, it only embarrasses you!
I never said it was critical either, but by Reg it is "an extra set off eyes" for take-off, landing, transition, and AR.

"Most of you idiots couldn't find the VSI or HSI, except for the resident UPT-washout ABM onboard. "

Very few UPT "washouts" go ABM, back in the early 90s some did, but ABM is rated and reg'd differently since OCT 99. Once again, try and not speak on what you do not know kid. THat is like me saying Flt Eng/Loady dropouts become boomers which is not true. Stick to the facts.

"As far as your stats. I wish I had no life so I could cruise the AFSC's webpage looking for stats to use against someone else."
It is also posted in their magazine, which is standard shiterature in any ACC bathroom. But of course you wouldn't know about ACC pubs I suppose. Of course searching the net takes about 12 secs.

"Your words hurt so much."
I know they do, that is obvious from your post and responses.

"We had 2 class B mishaps last year. Wow. I'm too lazy to actually look up what those 2 involved but in any case AWACS had 1. So if you interpolate 30-ish E-3s with 59 KC-10s you get roughly the same average. Twice the number of jets, twice the number of class Bs. And emergency seps? You have anything to say about that one? A huge number of factors go into that. The receiver could have too high a closure rate (not the tanker's fault) and kick off the autopilot. Your numbers are as worthless as your words."
The numbers are facts, and the seps listed can be broken down by Boomer issues, you should know that, if you don't maybe you should go see your Stan/Eval shop and get a clue kid. people in glass houses shouldn't through stones.

"To finish off the rest of your garbage:
If this word makes you feel better about your low self esteem because you couldn't get into the academy that is your problem
Like I'd even want to go there. Too many rules, not enough alcohol, and way too many women with CHD. Maybe you wanted to go there but got rejected, but the AF academy crossed my mind for about 10 seconds, when I was a freshman in HS."
You of course don't address the issue of self-esteem LOL
No, didn't want to go, went to a tier one school in The University of Texas, and while OU's masters program was "easy" IMO at least there master's academic rating is rising in Princeton review.


"let you clean my windshields when you are done with the Gas (yes I am a dick sometimes huh)
No, you're a moron all of the time. I shudder to think someone who's graduated from college could utter an insult that lame. Maybe your mom isn't the person to consult when you need a quick insult."

I actually laughed outloud on that and shared it with the bros LOL Do you know what the word MORON means??? It seems you have a limited vocabulary, which of course falls back to your childhood, so I understand and forgive you. I guess it does take a village LOL Once again you don't address the Self esteem issue. Seems I struck a nerve LOL

"Also, since there are Brits and Americans on both Brit and US E-3s at any given time, even by accent you don't know who you are talking too.
You ever notice that Brit and US AWACS have different callsigns? Yup, they do. When whoever tells us to switch to "*******" we know who it is simply by looking at our yoke note. Thinking out loud again?"
The callsign and the controller are two different issues kid, think about that one again. When your head stops hurting, I can draw you a picture if it doesn't make sense.


"Space A pax are not rated flyers, so by admission if your statement on Space A pax was true, you fall into the same boat kid......you are now the forum space A expert. Congrats
Flight Engineers aren't rated flyers."
I know, no "enlisted" flyer is rated, you seem to miss the basic tenet of the statement.

"Are you going to call any of the ones in your squadron space A's? I thought not. Space A expert?"
Seems I struck a nerve again, because you do carry Space A pax. We don't, thus your statement, that was trying to be cute yet insulting, is shown to be "false"

"Since you've got an opinion about everything else on these forums, why don't you take over as expert."
Forums are about opinions and discussion. And of course everything I have noted re: the AF is fact. So will continue to be your humble teacher.

"I'm sure you'll get an air medal out of it."
I don't need another Air Medal, but I'll take it for the "me": wall LOL

" Making your position a rated flying listing filled your head pretty quickly. It's an empty title when it comes to ABMs. Realistically speaking, the only rated fliers are pilots and navs. "
Not according to AFPC, and the regs, and the fact ABMs are Squadron, Group and soon to be Wing (17th TW) CCs. Not to mention the ABMs at Weapons School, and on the Combat Plans Cell LOL
Get a clue kid seriously, you are only making yourself look bad. Stick to pumping gas, and let the others plan and execute the big picture stuff. We all have our places. And of course, as a side note, since the Nav on the E-8 (the other ABM platform) sits in the Back, are they not rated anymore?

"You have no checklist steps in the cockpit, when you sit down in seat 5 you are nothing more than a passenger." Not a checklist, but a trying requirement, as noted above.

" So shut the f**k up, enjoy the ride, then go back to your place in the plane"
"Ditto" LOL Keep handing out my meals when I fly space A again on your plane  Smile

".......NOT IN THE COCKPIT and talk about how you could've been a pilot, but actually wanted to be a goat."
I didn't try to categorize as a pilot, though I am private pilot and have been for some time. I wanted to be an Air Weapons Officer, as I categorized for that position. I went for the money.
Not to sound greedy, but why not take the highest paid position where ever you go? I enjoy the work, and hope to fly in the guard in a traditional spot, just to stay "blue".


That was fun I weep for the future LOL though the poor kid joingin the AF might not be a flyer now...

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I'm Captain AWACS and I approved this message
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:50 pm

AATriple7

Considering how Capt-Awacs and Duce50Boom are acting right now, consider do you really want to work with people like that  Confused

Prehaps I could put a good word in for my former branch instead, the US Army.  Big thumbs up
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:43 pm

Duce50Boom:

[i]Too many rules, not enough alcohol, and way too many women with CHD[/i]


Ain't that the truth... Although in the past years it's gotten somewhat (somewhat being a high emphasis word) better. You pretty much get treated like a kindergarden kid for 4 years, especially the first year.

I will say though, granted there are some asshole grads who think they're better than everyone else cause they came outta here (which obviously isn't true). But, the community of graduates is extremely tight, and having gone through the same things people from classes 50 years ago went through, and walking the same hallways people such as Richter and Sijan does makes the bond even stronger between active and retired people, something many grads say isn't true with a lot of ROTC and OTS guys. Not to knock them or anything, but after getting beat for a whole year with your classmates, and going through hell, and leaning how to work as a team and support each other, you know that not only will your classmates take care of you, but that if something where to happen, academy grads would take care of you.
Of course you trade with a normal college life, but it is one of the best educations and you set yourself up nicely for the future, and hopefully it will get my to UPT...



I'm sure Deuceboom and AWACS are great guys (when separated from each other of course  Smile) you'd go drinking with who would have your back in most situations. They're just having a little "heated" argument. It's been quite entertaining to be honest, because even though they may not get along, they are still dependant on one another in some way or another. One thing I've noticed in my SHORT AF career is that every field tries to act like the most essential one, and the best of all. It's probably due to the fact that every single one of them is crucial to the mission, and if one element is missing, we'll probably fail.
There'll always be people who talk shit about your job and how worthless it is, anywhere from a fighter pilot to a C-130 pilot, to an ABM to a Refueler to a Civ. Engr. to someone in services. I've worked with enlisted and officers who talk shit about each other's jobs all the time, but it seems to be more in a jokingly fashion..

Anyway, let the "debate" continue!

 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:20 pm

True being in the Academy still gives the benefits of "the club", but since the Regular commissions are gone, not as much as years past. We actually have lots of 4 stars who were ROTC instead of Academy which is a nice change considering ROTC produces half the officers in the AF. I think all were sad to see AF lose to Navy though LOL

As for forum issues:
I'm not debating anything, I am stating facts when facts are asked for-- You can look at a basic L/D debate format for my syntax but that is it when it comes to "debate". Facts which have yet to be refuted BTW. People might not like the fact I can be blunt, asshole~ish, mean, etc,. I enjoy the forum, and the people, but have no delusions, this is just the internet, a 10 minute a day diversion for fun.
I'd love for L-188 to explain how one is "acting" and what his statement's connotation is BTW. I am not out to win a popularity contest, as it is the internet. I will post facts, and opinions if so asked. As I said before, I am not an AWO for many great ideals, I'm in it for the money first and foremost, but still enjoy the job. Why go to college and then push for low paying job. Capitalism is a great thing. I had a job in the "real world" before the AF and if the money is right on my job offers next year, I will go back. Business is Business as they say.

JcXP, true people talk smack, but there is a difference between knowing ones place, and having to be put in it. Ops is Ops, support is support and so on. Yes everyone is important. I'm a member of the Honour Guard and when someone dies after serving, you make no distinction in what their job was, however those of us not pushing up daisies, can still make one.
Positions also change, as do plans, jobs etc,. I hold no ill will at Ducey, even if he tries to cast aspersions at me, because I don't care, and don't know the guy from Adam, other than his other posts and some personal emails he has sent me, which is moderately amusing in the grand scheme of things.

Eagle pilots are taught to be "the shit" then OEF and OIF came along, where they got sent home early, to save gas for platforms dropping bombs. the 15Cs were useless with no air to air threat. Maybe in the next conflict that will not be true. It is like a sin wave for many military jobs. That is part of the pentagon's problem, looking at the last war, instead of ahead to the next one.

More on topic:
And let us not forget the overall point of this thread, another reason Ducey hijacked the thread. THe point was to answer the question that AA triple7 asked. He said he wanted to fly the E-3, a very doable thing. I gave a perspective. Of course Ducey gave a negative childish response, but he is young. We are here to talk to AAtriple7s question, not Ducey's inferiority complex. And to AAtriple I'll say again, come up to Tinker and check out the E-3, you can make the heavy track fairly easily. In fact flying the E-3 can lead to other planes. We have sent 3 pilots to the B-2 in the last 3 years, and 1 to the U-2 so you can get some good follow on slots as well.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I've been called worse
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:43 am

AWACS:

Yea I think the majority of general officers are actually ROTC and OTS grads (not sure on that though). Come to think of it, Jumper isn't a grad. I think more people in ROTC are actually in it for the long haul, especially those who actually don't get many or any benefits, where as at the Academy, sure you get your career guys, but a lot of people do 5 and dive or get their wings and get out. Being said, the Academy is still a nice place to be from, and be a part of the long blue line, something ROTC and OTS really don't have.


But, yea, join the Air Force AA triple 7!! As AWACS said, it's not too hard to get a E-3 slot, as I don't know too many people who actually put in for that airframe. But just be aware that you might not even get a pilot slot, so be prepared for an alternate job...
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:29 am

The academy is a beautiful place, 6000ft higher than Annapolis right Smile . I did a few weeks at Peterson AFB TDY once and got some tours from some AFA grads. It is not a bad place, just not for me and many others who wanted a true "college" experience. Of course AFA is a real college, but the social dealings and regime are a bit different.

Not allot of people put in to fly the E-3, in fact only one person has ever chosen it first out of initial UPT rankings, but if you go into heavies there are not too many slots available, as there are only 32 airframes (plus our NATO slots) and we have Canadian Pilots with us due to NORAD (and now Aussies), so we don't have allot of pilots. THe majority of your heavy guys go Tanker or Cargo. We simple do not have allot of seats available, but enough that it is realistic. Ditto for the E-8 JSTARS. You can do it though. Staying at Tinker for ever is also easy to do. Not allot of PCS if you want it that way.

The AF, in many but not all cases, takes care of its people the best- from all that I have seen going to various bases, deployments, and via benefits. But depending on the job you want, other services could be tops. Everything has its place.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, In God We Trust, All others we monitor
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:04 am

The academy is a beautiful place, 6000ft higher than Annapolis right . I did a few weeks at Peterson AFB TDY once and got some tours from some AFA grads. It is not a bad place, just not for me and many others who wanted a true "college" experience. Of course AFA is a real college, but the social dealings and regime are a bit different.

7258 feet above sea level far, far above that of West Point or Anapolis  Smile
Getting away from the gayness, (not that there's anything wrong with that) you're completely right. It's not a normal college experience, it's a military academy. A lot of the kids who come here have wanted to come here all their lives (not my case) and to put it bluntly are losers. Others were just losers in HS and come here and have no social personalities or skills whatsoever. And these are usually the people who are really booksmart, but have no common sense. I think I really just lucked out on getting my nomination and appointment to get here, I really want to fly, serve in the armed forces and the Academy is a good name to have, so I decided on coming (not to mention it was free and I'd be getting paid). I was really weighing ROTC and USAFA though.

Another side, like anything, is all about what you make it. I try to get as much of a normal college experience as possible, by not being here whenever possible, hitting up CU, CSU, UCCS, on the weekends, only hanging around some of the "cooler", less "tool-like" (i guess it's all relative, right?) people here, not really doing much work but just playing X-box and watching TV and the like. Of course because this place isn't like a normal college, if you get caught drinking underage, you'll probably get an Art. 15, but what can I say, this place drives you to drink and break the rules, at least if you had a somewhat social life before coming.
That's probably why I already have several forms of formal paperwork (no art 15 yet, who hoo!, although nowadays the academy hands those like out candy and they were for stupid shit).
Although, when I was hanging around some ROTC guys, they said the penalty for underage drinking is real harsh nowadays, and that minimum was Art. 15 and a lot of people got kicked outta ROTC, and an underage drinking hit will probably take away your pilot slot.

Anyway, yea if you want more of a normal college experiecne ROTC is definately the way to go. You don't have to put up with a lot of the bullshit and childlike treatment that the Academy "offers". But, if you for sure want to fly, are a pretty good student, don't mind dealing with a lot of BS, I'd at least look into the zoo. Sure you have to put up with 4 years of overload (training, 150 credit hour requirement to graduate in TOUGH classes etc..), but you'll graduate from one of the best schools in the nation, unless you screw up big time probably get your pilot slot, and graduate from a place in which employers do recognize how tough it is and what type of education you received. You won't find too many Academy grads who aren't in pretty solid, and many times, high paying jobs. Only you can really make the decision though by checking out all options and trying to figure out which one will fit you best.

AWACs, if you're ever gonna be back at the zoo, hit me up on via PM or on the global..
And yes, the loss to Navy was tough...

 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:55 am

AATriple7-

Well.... All I can offer is, if you want a flying career be it one of the Academys or ROTC start now. Your still young so work hard in school, get good grades and stay focused on your dreams and goals. Even if you end up with grades not good enough to go on to college with a commision in sight, go in anyway. I regret everyday that I passed and never went in.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:59 am

...the sometimes overlooked "best kept secret in the AF" is the A.F. Reserve/Guard. You can compete for a pilot slot before ever having to make any commitments, and if selected, you'll already have your assignment before even going to UPT.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:42 am

Jcxp15,

You're definitely right about the academy. One of the best educations (and for free, money wise at least) and a huge amount of leadership training. But with all that, there's no way I'd recommend it to anyone. Just my thinking, you don't have to go through 4 years of college to be the best race car driver in NASCAR. You don't need 4 years of the zoo to be the best officer/pilot you can be. Extraordinary men/women rise to their challenges. Those are the kind of people you want to be like when you grow up. Not the kind that can squish little problems like a wall street executive before they get big. Where's the cool points there? But, you'll definitely have the best shot getting a flying slot out of the academy. Priorities, priorities.

Drinking wise, even though I'm not exactly AWACS' biggest fan, in a bar I'd still have his back. If he gets his ass kicked who am I gonna argue with here?
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:43 am

Yea if you're looking to go AF career, and know you can get a pilot slot, and want that more normal college life, ROTC is great. If you're looking to do 5 and dive, or get your wings then go out somewhere, the Academy name does help out a lot when looking for a job. You've definately got an edge, even over that ROTC cadet who employers see just went to the State School, or regular school. You might not have to go through 4 years of college to be the best driver in NASCAR (not that great of an analogy IMHO) but it damn sure helps. Some of the most extraordinary people in Air Force history are Academy Grads.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:33 pm

Some of the most extraordinary people in Air Force history are Academy Grads.

Well, I'd sure hope so....The only college in the country whose sole mission is to crank out officers for the U.S. Air Force!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:50 pm

Well, I'd sure hope so....The only college in the country whose sole mission is to crank out officers for the U.S. Air Force!

Yea I know, I was just pointing out that fact since it was brought up earlier, and ROTC and OTS commissions more officers each year than the Academy!
 
Stoicescu
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:39 pm

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:59 pm

Is there a big need for Airlift pilots in USAF because that's what I read somewhere (I can't remember exactly the source) ?

My dream job will be B-2 pilot but I am realistic and I say chances are not that good so I will settle for a C-130 or C-17 also and even a C-5 (even if the people that actually work with it are not very happy)

My plan is to start my career as an enlisted than I want to take my associate in CCAF. After 4 or 6 year (I didn't took a decision yet) I want to use GI Bill and get a college degree and than come again into Air Force as an Officer and hopefully get a flying job.

My ultimate goal is to be a heavy airplane captain for a big airline ( I plan to get out of USAF between 35-37 age)

I still didn't rule out completely the possibility to go directly as an Officer (I have to wait a couple more years) but I believe that going as an enlisted for 4-6 years first is the best choice for me.

What do you think ?
 
AGM114L
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting Stoicescu (Reply 42):
My ultimate goal is to be a heavy airplane captain

Eat doughnuts every meal and avoid exercise at all cost.

However after you enlist, and getting that Aviator slot falls through you can always use your GI bill and the 100% tuition reimbursement. The GI will pay for 60% of your flight training beyond the private rating and take advantage of the 100% tuition reimbursement while you're enlisted in the AF.

Or if you're a complete geek, like all AF aviators are, and you're confident you will be competitive grade-wise, ROTC may be a good option as well.

Good Luck
My Boeing can blow up your Boeing
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:02 am

I was selected for a pilot slot via OTS a few months ago. The process took over a year and requires an extreme amount of patience. As others can tell you better than I, hurry up and wait will become the standard of your life. Here is the process that the Air Force has for civilians who want to apply to the Air Force for Officer Training upon completion with their 4 year degree.

#1: AFOQT (Air Force Officer Qualifying Test): This is an academic test that has 13+ sections in it. The sections range from math, science and english to aviation knowledge, aircraft instrument reading and electrical mazes. There are several prep books put out by a company named ARCO that will help prepare you for this test.

#2 MEPS (Medical Entrance and Processing Station): If your scores on the AFOQT are competitive, the recruiter will send you to a nearby military base to undergo a fun filled day long physical. Doing the duck walk in your underwear is a hoot.

#3 BAT (Basic Attributes Test): If your scores are competitive and you are medically qualified, you will then be scheduled to take a computerized eye hand cooridination test. The test takes about 2 hours and information on the test will be provided to you by the recruiter or google.com

#4 Squadron Interview: Upon completion of the 3 previous tests, the recruiter will see how you stack up against the rest of the boys and girls. If you are good to go, you will be interviewed by an officer in the recruiters squadron. Their write up on you is extremely critical to your selection. Don't be late, wear a suite and bring your "A" game in all facets.

#5 The Board: Officer Selection Board meets every 3 months. Your packet will compete against all the other applicants for whatever job you select. 5 colonels make up the selection board and go over everyone's paperwork.

#6 Flight Physical: If you are lucky enough to have been selected for pilot, nav or abm, you then get to spend another fun filled day at a nearby Air Force Base undergoing a Flight Physical. It is much more in depth than the MEPS physical and qualifies you for flight duties in the Air Force.

After you have completed all of that, you will be issued an OTS class date which trust me, is like being handed the golden ticket to life.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
AGM114L
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:00 am

CX747,

Did they even look at your academic history in the interview? How did you're College transcripts affect your selection? I always wondered how it worked for the Air Force.

I had a similar interview a few years back with the Army for a flying slot, fortunately for me the interviewer was a Artillery Major who just recieved new's is wife was going into labor with his first born. I think the interview lasted all of five minutes and from his demeanor I don't think he could have cared less what was said.
My Boeing can blow up your Boeing
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Looking To Join The Air Force.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:39 pm

My college transcripts were a large part of the package. In order to even get in the door, you have to have above a 3.0 grade average. FYI, that is the bare minimum. Also, a big problem is the thought that one must be a physics degree and a minor in math to be a pilot. I have a degree in Business Management and it was not an issue. If someone tells you otherwise, they are WRONG. One thing that you should have though is a private pilot's license. As for the interview, my college experience was brought up and so was my GPA.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower

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