CV990
Topic Author
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

Portuguese Navy News.

Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:46 pm


Hi.

Just let you know that US government agreed to pass to the Portuguese Navy 2 Oliver Hazard Perry frigates.
Has you know Portugal have 3 MEKO ships and 5 Super Lynx so like a said previouly Portugal might order at least 2 or 3 more. Now a question how many helicopters these ships can handle?
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:39 pm

The ships have two helicopter hangars, so they should be able to carry two helicopters, depending on what they do to the hangars. In the US the gym is in usually in the starboard side hangar, so there's only room for one helicopter on US ships.

There's no more support from the US for the missile launcher or fire control radar since no US frigate has a working missile launcher or missile illuminator anymore.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
CV990
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:30 pm


Hi Woodreau.

Thanks for the information, infact our MEKO Class ships also have 2 helicopter hangar but only one is infact used, so that's not a big deal with these 2 ships. Now I was a little bit concerned what you said about the missile launcher, does that means that Portugal will have to make some adjustments to this type of ship? What do you think about this class and if it fits for a small country like Portugal.
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:31 pm

The Perrys were designed as the low-end of a "high-low" fleet acquisition plan. The role of the Perrys was to be convoy escort in the event of a Warsaw Pact invasion of Western Europe. The design has been upgraded over the years (such that they displace around 500 tons more than they originally did), but are fairly sturdy ships - ask the crews of the USS Stark and the USS Samuel B. Roberts and they'll testify as to that. They require around 15 officers and 179 enlisted personnel, so in terms of crew, it's only a slight increase from your Vasco de Gama-class ships, and in the neighborhood of the Commandant Riviere-class ships.

In terms of the USN no longer providing support for the Mark 13 missile launcher (the launcher at the bow of the ship), have no worries. The Spanish Armada operates a licensed version of the Perry (their Santa Maria-class) that features the same launcher and the same radar systems as the basic Perry, as do the Royal Australian Navy and the Taiwanese Navy.

The only concern I'd have is which variant of the Perry you're going to be getting, as they were built to two designs - the more prevalent long-hull, which can operate 2 helos, and the short-hull which can only operate a single helicopter
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
CV990
Topic Author
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:32 am


Hi Garnetpalmetto.

Thanks for all your information regarding the Perrys ships. It looks that Portugal wanted to have an incresed potencialitty and these ships might achieve that. About the variant that Portugal will receive I don't have a clue but I think that will not be an issue. I know that sometime ago Portugal was ready to order 3 more Lynx helicopters so they had in mind to have more ships.
Anyway thanks again and I'll be waiting to see these ships in Portugal.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:50 am

Protugual is bring back the A-7P's? Damn.....got my hopes up  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
CV990
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:45 pm


Hi!

I don't know where in the world you got that information but the A7P's are long gone, you can find some still at OGMA/Alverca parked.
Unless you were thinking about using them in these two ships, but I think Portugal is not willing to convert the A7P in STOL/VTOL.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:23 pm

You can see the physical difference between the "short original" Perry and the "stretched" Perry by looking at the stern. The short Perry has a flat square stern and the stretched Perry has angled stern, angled from the waterline. On the waterline the ships are the same length. Overall the stretched Perry is about 4 meters longer.

Both Perrys, the short and the stretched, are designed to operate and support up to two helicopters. But in tactical use, the ship can only integrate one helicopter as a tactical sensor at a time because there is only one datalink antenna. The other helicopter if it is up and flying can only be used as a visual sensor by making voice reports.

There is an extremely limited area (like right next to the ship) where both helicopters can datalink with the ship at the same time but there's no tactical utility in doing this and the data streams might interfere with each other and you won't get any info.

The original short Perrys were originally designed to use 2 SH-2 Seasprites, but when the SH-60 Seahawks were introduced to the fleet, the flight deck couldn't accommodate a Seahawk, so they were stretched to accommodate 2 Seahawks. The US Navy has since gotten rid of all of the short Perrys by selling/giving them to foreign navies, since the last Seasprite left the naval reserve in 2001. It doesn't matter which variant you get, you'd be able to operate up to 2 helicopters with any Perry.

All the Perrys left in the US Navy have had the missile launcher physically removed and the fire control systems to support missile launch and guidance have been removed as well. Replacing the launcher for foreign military sales wasn't a consideration when they made the decision to remove the launcher.

However there isn't anything preventing a new owner from contracting a contractor to rearm the ships. I think General Dynamics still maintains the launcher for the foreign ships if they ask (contract) for it. The fire control system is Dutch.

Perry's are good ships, and as long as you keep them in a medium-low threat environment, they're more capable of handling the mission that I think you guys would use them for... Just don't try to put them up against anything more than an Exocet and you should be fine.  Smile An Exocet is probably pushing it.

Other navies have received our Perrys: Turkey, Egypt, Bahrain, Poland, to name a few. I am guessing you guys are probably getting USS Sides (FFG-14) and USS George Philip (FFG-12) (both are the original short Perrys) as these were just decomissioned earlier this year. I think you guys will probably have a better track record at maintaining them than some of the other countries which aren't used to maintaining a ship with 1970's technology.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:16 am

CV990: MEKO A-100 corvettes can accomodate one, the MEKO A-200 frigates two medium-sized helicopter, but I maybe wrong here. Didn't Portugal order several NH-90 recently?
I support the right to arm bears
 
CV990
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Portuguese Navy News.

Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:41 am


Hi NoUFO.

Thanks for your information regarding the MEKO ships. We have 3 Vasco da Gama Class A-200's ships that acomodate 2 Helis each, but because we just have 5 these ships always use 1 and the other 2 rotate from ship to ship. About the NH90, yes Portugal ordered I think 10/12 of those helicopters to be used by the Army, but Portugal also ordered and started to receive already the EH101 Merlin to replace the good old SA330 Puma that arrived to Portugal in 1969!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!

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