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Mi-24 In UN

Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:39 am

Hi folks, I've just found this picture from the database:
http://photos.airliners.net/ee536d1ab016c5735ee4b9c02f1a2bbb/41b1d9c7/middle/4/7/1/527174.jpg

What's the mission of this Mi-24? For Transport?

Thanks!
 
USAFMXOfficer
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:15 am

Can't access the photo. I get a "408-request timeout" error.
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:21 am

I's sorry! The link should be this: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/527174/M/
 
LY744
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:55 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ali Hammoud




LY744.
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IndianFlyboy
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:46 pm

Well the caption says there a Mi 26's also parked in the airfield. With those elephants around , I doubt these would be for transport. Mi 24/35's are primarily gunships with troop carrying capabilities , so these would probably be for attack or escort for other choppers.

Regards
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:54 pm

I doubt it IndianFlyboy. If you look at the picture, they are only carrying auxiliary fuel tanks under the wing, and the nose turret houses no cannon. Though NATO countries have combat planes obviously, I think the 'UN' paint job shows it as a non combatant, kinda like Red Crosses on war ambulances. If I recall correctly, the Hind carried 8 combat ready troops, so it probably is an ideal fast transport for a small UN force.
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Contact_tower
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:10 pm

"and the nose turret houses no cannon. "

Do you boys see the 2 long barrelse on the right side of the nose/cockpit wall?

That's a 30mm automatic cannon......'cos this is a Hind Foxtrot (Mi-24P) Big thumbs up

[Edited 2004-12-06 12:11:14]

[Edited 2004-12-06 12:15:51]
 
Contact_tower
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:07 pm

*swear*

barrelse = barrels

*swear*

 Big grin
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:41 am

I stand corrected... never seen em like that before.
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L-188
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:56 pm

Aren't those 23mm?

Specificly the ZSU-23

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Contact_tower
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:37 pm

You are indeed correct 188, my turn to stand corrected!  Smile
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:26 am

Sierra Leone had a nasty civil war going on for over ten years, mainly supporrted by neighbouring Liberia´s ex-dictator Charles Taylor. The problem was that Sierra Leone is potentially a rich country, with huge diamond fields close to the Liberian border. Taylor financed a rebel group called the Revolutionary United Front (RUF) under their leader Foday Sankoh to gain control of these areas. Pretext was the so called excessive influence of the Temne tribe over the country,which is rivaled by the Mende tribe. In the end, the RUF rebels were not interested in controlling territory to set up a new government but just in plundering and terrorising. Favourite tactics of theRUF against villagers was the amputation of hands using machetes (even on little children). Additionaly thereexisted a lot of other bandit groups, which profited from the government´s inability to move their troops fast.

Finally the UN stepped in, together with neighbouring West African countries, which saw the ongoing civil war a threat to their own stability.
One item which helped the UN to crack down on the rebels / bandits was the use of reconnaisance aircraft and airmobile troops to detect and combat rebel / bandit camps in the jungle. These Mi-24 helicopters were intended to give the UN combat troops some air mobility and close support.
So far this operation has been successfull, Foday Sankoh having been recognised by citizens while hiding in the capital and almost being lynched, was taken in custody by British UN troops and later handed over to the Sierra Leonian government for disposal. He died of cancer while in prison, saving the hangman work.
One thing contributing to the success were also two successfull operations run by the British, one a defense against an attack by Sankoh´s supporters, who wanted to free him and the other one a successfull operation to fre a dozen British soldiers who had been acidentally caprtured by a bandit group and were held as hostages.
The rebels discovered that taking on professional soldiers was different from slaughtering unarmed civilians and lost their invincible supermen status.
So far I would say that Sierra Leone was a successfull UN operation, with the country slowly recovering after 12 years of civil war. It also helped that Liberian dictator got ousted in his own country, so that, whatever remained of the RUF, lost all support.

Jan
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iakobos
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:17 am

Off topic, but for the sake of clarity....

Charles Gankay Taylor was an elected President and until some stage his regime was not dictatorial, just typical sub-saharan African, tribal links first.
The RUF was living from the country, notably from the diamond mining (traditionally a Lebanese trade). All buyers (in full knowledge) are as guilty of helping supporting the war as Taylor who just did what many others were doing even before he came in the picture. He did not need the RUF, he needed cash.

Also, I can tell from personal experience(s) that even in "peaceful" times, every traveller to the countryside was stopped and ransomed at regular intervals when outside the capital city area, it was and still is the only way for the majority to make some money.

 
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vzlet
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:25 am

Contact Tower,
I think you had it right the first time. My "Hind in detail" book says that it's a 30mm GSh-30-2.
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:39 am

lakobos, can you elaborate on your experience? Do you mean that people are taken hostage until a ransom is paid?
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citjet
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:28 am

Yup. Those be cannon. Also, not what appears to be FLIR in place of the chin turret.
 
iakobos
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:08 am

Well no surprise that those heli are armed, this was a UN peace enforcement mission after all. (and real combat took place)

HaveBlue, the scenario is terribly simple, about 1km before the road reaches a village there are some primitive (but heavy or bulky) obstacles. Since it is jungle or bush both sides, you have no other option than to stop. After half a minute a gentleman or two appear from nowhere, nonchalantly carrying things that look very much like AK-47s and a machete. If you want your destiny not to stop at that point, you will be very polite, take a (already prepared) bunch of cash out of your shirt pocket (from nowhere else, dangerous !), pretend to negotiate a little and hand him 90% of what you have in hand.
If he is nice, or already made a good income that day, and is not too much on the pot, that's about it. Obstacles cleared (sometimes by youself) and you are free to go until the next village. (not that many fortunately)
If he is not in a good mood, better give him the cash without negotiating.

This leads to a few rules for survival:
* whenever possible travel by plane or heli
* if by car, choose one that does not look new or expensive
* travel with a local (most natives do not speak English)
* no more than 2 non-natives on board, no more than one car
* have a couple of powerful handguns, make sure they are within easy reach but not easily visible
* a very visible hunting gun is advisable, provided you did catch some good game on the way. You will give them the game, it will save their ammo (scarce) and they will understand you know the rules.
* always travel in the morning before it is too warm and they are busted with beer (leaving town 1hr before sunset is perfect, game is rather easy to catch in the headlights)

Officially, the village is responsible for maintaining a certain portion of road (which they don't of course).
So, in a way, it is simply a toll station.
 
L-188
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:37 am

I think you are right Vzlet. I looked them up on the FAS.org website.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm
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dl021
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:54 am

You guys realize that the UN paid for the Ukrainian Mi-24's to operate in several peace missions, and that the Byelorussians have been mercing theirs out to the highest bidder for years.

The Ukranian pilots on UN missions got more hours in their tour than they had flown over the previous several years.

BTW the Mi-24's come in two differently armed variants. The original has the 23mm Gatling gun under the chin, and the later variants have the dual 30mm cannon mounted on the left side of the chin. There is a sight mounted in the turret, not all are IR/Thermal capable, but there is a sight.
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HaveBlue
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:04 pm

Iakobos thank you. Very interesting stuff there, though nothing I would ever want to see firsthand.

What took you there? Business, regular travels? Not to be nosy, just curious.


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Spacepope
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:44 pm

AFAIK, the MI-24 never had a 23mm cannon. The gatling was 12.7mm (50 cal). New MI-24s and MI-35s come with 30mm cannon, as the russians seem to be standardizing on that caliber.

There is a south african MI-24 pilot that posts on Pprune, flies in Sierra Leone. Check for the name "gunship", he has some interesting posts.
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dl021
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:29 pm

Spacepope....the original Hind A thru D had the 12.7mm minigun in the turret plus they had the 23mm gun pods with the same weapon they used in their ada mounts as well as some aircraft.

The Hind E upgraded to a twin 23mm turret mounted cannon.

The Hind F and Mi-35 as well as later upgrades to existing airframes had the twin 30mm's

Thanks for pointing out the mistake in my post, as I said 23mm when thinking 12.7mm. They get complicated to keep up with sometimes.


http://www.helis.com/70s/h_mi24.php
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm
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iakobos
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:09 pm

Ken,

What took me there....let's call it business. (honest bizz)
The procedures may seem a little bit harsh, but when you are well aware and used to it, it is pretty straightforward.
The idea is to take money, not to kill people, a dead client is a lost client.
There is obviously very little road traffic, so they care not to scare too much.

Ian,
I wont go into details here, but yes the Byelo and Ukrs are in high demand.
I was in a situation where one (warring) side had Byelo fighters (Mig) and pilots, the other side had Ukr fighters (Su) and pilots and Byelo AAA batteries and crews.
They had their "private" channels to make sure none of them would get hurt, despite the full size war. They knew precisely where not to drop their eggs.
 
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vzlet
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:31 am

DL021,
The fas.org ref you provided says that Hind Es have either a 12.7 or 23mm turret gun, while the helis.com source implies that all "E" models have the 23mm version. I'm positive that Czech Ds and Es all use the same 4-barrelled 12.7mm in their turrets. (It's designated the 9-A-624.) I can't recall seeing an example of a turreted 23mm and would be interested in a picture if anyone knows of one. The Czechs do use the pod-mounted GSh-23-2s you mentioned. (And, perhaps of interest, there's also a seemingly-made-for-Hollywood device combining a 4x12.7 and two 4x7.62 guns in a single pod.)

-Mark
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
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vzlet
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:24 am

Never mind about the request for pics of turreted 23mm guns on Hinds. Turns out I already have some, on examples of Mi-24VP and Mi-35M.
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:37 pm

Iakobos,

I got my information from my Sierra Leonian ex wife (the one I just divorced, she´s a Temne from Freetown, BTW) and from hanging out with the Sierra Leonian community in Berlin some years ago, when I still was with her.
I´ve never been in the country (and don´t have a big with to go now, not anymore, since there is no family connection anymore).

Jan
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iakobos
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:07 pm

Jan,

Former elected Pdt "Chuck" Taylor is a Gola from Eastern Liberia.

To anyone interested in non-academic but "right on it" accounts of dangerous places (aka countries) can check http://www.comebacksafe.com
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:09 am

Iakobos,

This link doesn´t work. You´ll need some permission to enter this site.Anyway, my next long distance trip will probably be the Filipino island of Mindenao, the one where the action is... as a Filipino friend told me once.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
iakobos
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:31 am

Entschuldigung Jan,

I dont know why I softened the website's name...
it is http://www.comebackalive.com

The Philippine "report" does not work for the moment, I would not be surprised if it is just in the process of an update.

[Edited 2005-01-24 17:31:57]
 
GDB
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:35 am

The UK deployment to Sierra Leone was not a UN operation, in 2000 the largely African Union manned UN op there seemed in disarray, the country seemingly on the verge of massive human suffering.
It was quite controversial sending UK forces, some on the Tory benches asked 'what's in it for us?' The hard left cried 'Imperialism'.

The situation seemed to stabilize, then came the hostage crisis, the enemy being a drunk and drugged up bunch of thugs called 'The West Side Boys', whose leader made increasingly irrational demands and threats.
So 'Operation Barras' was launched, troops were from one of the battalions deployed in country, 1 PARA, as well as the SAS.

Chinooks provided airflift, Lynx AH.7's provided fire support and C3, once the hostages were sprung, a fierce firefight ensued, the WSB being more heavily armed than expected, and too out of their heads to have any idea of self preservation, the UK troops ended up using mortars, around 20 of the WSB were killed, their leader captured, one SAS trooper was killed.
The WSB were finished after that.

This seemed to break the back of the terror in Sierra Leone, eventually a much more robust and successful UN operation largely replaced the UK forces, though some are/were deployed in training the Sierra Leone forces.

Prior to the hostage operation, one insurgent group was found to be prone to dispersal merely by Sea Harrier's from HMS Illustrious flying low over them, with the aircraft not needing to use any ordnance.

An unusual operation, since unlike France, the UK is usually much less keen to get entangled in former African colonies, but the terrible situation for the ordinary people there was heavily featured in the UK media, so Blair put his 'Lord Palmerston' head on (his nickname from the Foreign Office).
By all accounts, many citizens were not happy to see the UK troops leave, even wanting to reverse their 40 years of independence.

A lesson perhaps? UN operations can work, but sometimes the ground has to be prepared by a force not encumbered by the inevitable compromises a multi national UN force might suffer from.

 
iakobos
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:43 am

Right GDB, especially when you know the origin and nature of UN (or ECOMOG) troops. Some contingents are just marginally better than the dreaded rebels themselves. That also explains why the Brits were welcome to stay longer.
 
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:45 pm

Actually I´ve heard often within the Sierra Leonian community in Berlin, that they wanted to have the Brits back. They said that the British exploited them, but at least were impartial with their system of justice and didn´t prefer one tribe over another.

Another thing, when operation "Barras" happened I was working in Ireland. The hostages were Irish, they belonged to the Royal Irish Regiment. The rescue operation was cheered by my Irish co-staff, who said that it completely changed the impression of the Paras and the SAS in Ireland.
The SAS sent a sniper team in to observe the rebel camp prior ot the assault. The snipers also opened fire during the assault, causing chaos among the rebels.
The biggest setback for the RUF was the capture of their leader, Foday Sankoh. He has been hiding in the capital, but was recognised by civilians, who tried to string him up on the nearest tree. Police and British army saved him a took him into custody in the British base. Shortly afterwards, his rebels attacked the British camp to release him, but got repelled. Next day he was flown to a British warship off the coast to prevent other attempts to liberate him. After the successfull reinstallation of the elexted government he was handed over to the Sierra Leonian authorities for trial, but died of cancer or some other disease, before he got convicted.

Jan

[Edited 2005-01-25 04:46:23]
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jetblast
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:57 am

I think Sierra Leone is in a civil war right now, am I right? That could explain the guns...

Regards
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LY744
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:55 am

"I think Sierra Leone is in a civil war right now, am I right?"

Gee I don't know, but here's a clue: try one of the 32 replies posted before yours.


LY744.
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jetblast
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:17 am

Thanks for the, ummmmm..., unkind response LY744.

Regards
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LY744
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RE: Mi-24 In UN

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:59 am

Well at least now I know you do read responses other than your own. Anytime, BTW.


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