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HAWK21M
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Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:57 pm

Correct me If Im wrong.
Navy Pilots operate on Aircraft Carriers.
Can they be transferred to Air Force if needed.
What rank do they have.
Why not Airforce Pilots why Navy Pilots.
regds
MEL
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AAR90
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:23 pm

Navy Pilots operate on Aircraft Carriers.

Most do, some do not (i.e. P3 pilots, most helo pilots, etc.).

Can they be transferred to Air Force if needed.

Not a service transfer, but temporary duty. Only real problem is acft qualifications.

What rank do they have.

Standard USN officer ranks.

Why not Airforce Pilots why Navy Pilots.

Not sure what you're asking. Why not USAF pilot onboard USN CVs? That's an issue that has been "discussed" for as long as the USAF has been around. Classic "service rivalry" you won't see go away anytime soon (or long for that matter). IMHO, is just seems correct that US Navy pilots fly aboard US Navy aircraft carriers to conduct naval warfare.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:31 am

AAR90 pretty much summed it up, it's a class war.....the Navy guys can pride themselves on flying off a postage stamp and being able to take that runway right to the enemy's lap, while the AF guys can pride themselves in a nice 10,000 foot runway and a nice BOQ and exchange lol.

Actually, my dad's F/A-18 squadron did have an exchange pilot come over from the Air Force, he was an F-16 driver. He went through the Hornet RAG just like everybody else, CQ'd sucessfully (you didn't think an AF guy could do it huh?  Big grin) and made a cruise with my dad's squadron...flew just as good as the Navy guys I'd have to say. So it can be done. (This pilot was a Captain then, he's now a full bird Colonel.....and happens to be my primary helper in getting into the ANG  Big thumbs up)

DeltaGuy
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IntruderPC
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:48 am

Air Force officers qualified in F-4 Phantom II's were some time TDY to navy sea going outfits. All Phantom's had tailhooks and all the AF piots had to do was go thru the carrier landing course and qualify under a fleet LSO's approval. We did not have any on Coral Sea on WestPac or on America in the Med, But other PC's and mx personnel I knew in other squadrons told they knew of the practice, too.
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AAR90
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:51 am

He went through the Hornet RAG just like everybody else, CQ'd sucessfully (you didn't think an AF guy could do it huh? ) and made a cruise with my dad's squadron...flew just as good as the Navy guys I'd have to say. So it can be done.

Exchange (between military services) tours are quite common and have been going on a long time. Not sure how the USAF does it, but USAF pilots going to USN squadrons get the full treatment: RAG, NATOPS qual., CQ, etc. Time to complete and "hit-the-fleet" is relatively quick [same as any USN pilot transitioning to a new plane]. Backseaters have similar opportunities. We even had an AWACS operator in my fleet squadron my last year.

All Phantom's had tailhooks and all the AF piots had to do was go thru the carrier landing course and qualify under a fleet LSO's approval.

There's a bit more to it than that and no USAF plane gets to fly on/off a boat regularly. The USAF folks get fully trained in USN acft, procedures and tactics. They become a full-fledged member of the USN squadron. IMHO, ALL the USAF officers I met who had completed or were completing their USN tour proudly wore their wings-of-gold rather than those little-bitty silver things the USAF calls "wings." Then again, who knows what they did (or said) when the went "home."  Nuts

it's a class war...

Yep, and taken in the right perspective and with good humor [as usually happens] it can and does create much better and capable officers for all the services.  Big thumbs up
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:54 am

Hey AAR90, quick question....sounds like you're saying the AF exchange guys get to wear Wings of Gold if they're on a Navy tour and had completed the RAG/NATOPS/CQ phases, but had done UPT over at the Air Farce?

If so, that's pretty dang cool, gives em something else other than wings of lead  Big grin I hope to be able to get an exchange tour one day after I've been with the Guard for several years (trying to see if it could be possible to one day go from ANG to a reserve Hornet squadron and back, since the Hornet is one thing I've wanted all my life)...would be pretty neat if all that would work.

There's actually alot of boys in blue flying Navy jets right now, specifically the EA-6B....when the F-111 was retired a few years ago, the AF needed a good EW platform until it could think/adapt something better. They're actually Prowler Expeditionary units, and are flown mostly by the blue suiters.

DeltaGuy
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IndianFlyboy
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:22 pm

In terms of the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force , it is not absolutely necessary. The training for both forces vary slightly. The following is the path followed by an IAF pilot:
NDA-> 2nd Term in AFA->Commisioned as an Air force officer->MOFTU(If in fighters)-> change in aircraft type after getting night rated.

Alternatively an IAF Pilot can also go through the CDS exams to the 1st term in AFA and then follow the same path.

For a naval pilot:
NDA/CDS-> 1st term in Naval Flight academy and then similar to an IAF pilot. The pilot based on his ranking may go to INS HANSA for conversion to Harriers rather than to the MOFTU as the IAF pilots do.

Naval pilots who are eligible for the fighter stream may or may not fly the harriers. Most of the time these aviators are deputed to the Indian Air force and end up flying MiG 21's and as the need arises will be transferred to flying the harriers. The reverse is also true where in existing harrier pilots may convert to MiG 21's and be deputed to the IAF.

Our present Naval Chief Admiral Arun Prakash is a Vir Chakra awardee for the 71 war. He got this flying the hunters for the 21 Sqn and not for the Indian Navy.


Regards

 
AAR90
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:03 pm

Hey AAR90, quick question....sounds like you're saying the AF exchange guys get to wear Wings of Gold if they're on a Navy tour and had completed the RAG/NATOPS/CQ phases, but had done UPT over at the Air Farce?

Correct. If you successfully complete naval carrier qualifications (not just live, but the LSO's actually give you a passing grade), then you are considered a properly qualified Naval Aviator and receive your wings-of-gold, fancy certificate and (for USAF dudes) a nice plaque. Probably will be given a tailhook "point" and/or holdback fitting as well. USN try to make it "special" for those who won't be coming back to CV ops (or at least we used to).  Big thumbs up

I hope to be able to get an exchange tour one day after I've been with the Guard for several years (trying to see if it could be possible to one day go from ANG to a reserve Hornet squadron and back, since the Hornet is one thing I've wanted all my life)...would be pretty neat if all that would work.

Don't know enough about the reserve program anymore. Back when I was active/reserve flier we had both "augment" units and two full reserve CV airwings. The west coast reserve airwing was disbanded shortly after I left the reserves and I never kept up with how things work since then. Back then we did see reserve/ANG exchange tours, but now I'm not so sure.
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AFHokie
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:12 am

For those that are curious, the F-15, and the F-16 also have tailhooks. All USAF runways have some sort of barrier or cable system at each end in case of an emergency, (no brakes, or airbrake, having to come in too fast for a multitude of reasons, etc)

Oh, and the F-22 also has a tail hook.

 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:54 pm

But, the AF guys have twigs for landing gear struts...they may have the tailhook, but one good slam down on a CV with those sticks will quickly turn that landing into a belly landing  Laugh out loud

Rig the barricade!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
DeltaGuy
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AAR90
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:44 pm

...but one good slam down on a CV with those sticks will quickly turn that landing into a belly landing

Naw, the hook-point would have come off already. The BAK gear has less than 1/4 the stopping force of a standard CV landing. First time I had to take the BAK gear was a real disappointment. I was expecting an arrested landing and got...... "oh, it really is trying to stop us."  Laugh out loud
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ftrguy
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:45 pm

I wonder if an Airforce jet could handle Navy E-28 gear? It has the initial jolt of landing on a CV but lets up pretty good towards the end. I wonder if that initial jolt would do some damage?
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:04 am

I'd think that the Air Farce jets would have to be able to take the force of the E-28, in case they needed a divert at an NAS....then again, there are far more AF bases handy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
AAR90
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:52 am

I wonder if an Airforce jet could handle Navy E-28 gear?

Yep, not a problem. Watched a bunch of F15s & F16s trap at NKX during the -80's. The E28 is virtually identical to BAK-15 operationally [some design differences, but not many capability differences].

It has the initial jolt of landing on a CV...

Nope, not even close. The Hawkeye can land in the rollout distance of the E28 and it is designed to gradually increase resistence so there is little or no initial engagement "jolt" [minimize stress to non-USN acft]. Every time I've trapped in E28 gear [a bunch when you do most of NARF's PMCF's] I wonder if I actually caught the wire because the initial decelleration is so gentle.
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ftrguy
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RE: Naval Pilots & Airforce Question

Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:31 am

"It has the initial jolt of landing on a CV."

I have only done it once (knock on wood) and maybe the weight was set incorrectly, but it was quite a jolt at first. It did let up quite a bit, but I remember thinking right after it happened that was alot more than I expected from field gear. We were pretty light (around 29K or so in a Hornet) and maybe it was set for a heavier Tomcat. With all that said, there is still nothing like going from 140kts to 0 in 2 seconds on the boat.

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