sonic67
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C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:37 am


Was the C-130 actually considered as a possible carrier plane by the Navy?

It seems a little to large to be stored on board on a AC carrier but I was surprised to see actually being able to land on the AC carrier Forrestal.


http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c130_forrestal.asp#videos
 
Spacepope
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:44 am

They landed U-2s on carriers too. More of showing that ti could be done than any real plan to intoduce them into carrier service.
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sonic67
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:02 pm


I also heard that Lockheed also tried to modify a C-130 to land and take off from a soccer field using rockets to rescue the hostages in Iran. I heard the first test was successful but the second time they tried the wing ripped off and the AC and crew where lost.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:04 pm

Sonic - the idea wasn't to base C-130s onboard carriers, but rather to evaluate whether or not it would be effective as the COD.
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sonic67
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:12 pm


What does COD stand for?

 
HaveBlue
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:59 pm

Sonic,

I have video of the C-130 landing tests you are talking about. Are you familiar with JATO rockets? This C-130 had JATO bottles on the side and near top of the forward fuselage pointing FORWARD... the idea was to decelerate in short order. On the video I have and what you're talking about they hit the cans too early, while the plane was still in the air, and it effectively dropped out of the air (guessing 20' or so, haven't watched it in a while) and when it did the starboard wing came off and a fuel fire immediately started. I'm not certain, but I don't think any of the crew died. They did scrap the idea after that though.

And COD stands for Carrier Onboard Delivery, or what brings mail, cargo and crew on board while the Carrier is underway. The COD aircraft used for the last few decades has been the Grumman C-2 Greyhound, an empty cargo version of its sister, the E-2 Hawkeye.

And yes the U-2 took off from a carrier and the 130 took off and landed, unassisted, but neither was put into practice.

Still cool though.
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SATL382G
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:24 pm

Seems entirely possible to me that both the U2 and C130 carrier tests were public test flights to provide cover for and/or support later covert operations.

Given the nature of carrier operations it could've happened and the only folks that would know are the flight crew and the guys in the island.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
sonic67
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:41 pm

HaveBlue

Yes I'm familiar with JATO it was used since the 2nd WW. I should have known that. If you have chance can you post the video of the C-130.

Thanks

 Big thumbs up
 
HaveBlue
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:14 pm

Sonic,

I didn't mean the question to be sarcastic, just rather typing how I was thinking, and not knowing if you had any idea what JATO was. I tried to upload the video to my homesite, but as I really have only ever uploaded pictures, it didn't work and I'll have to find a way around it. However, upon watching the video again after posting it does seem to have fired at about 20-30 feet and to clarify the wing didn't depart until the very hard landing, at which point the C-130 did a 90 degree turn to the right and caught fire, and according to the commentator 'the ship was lost' so I'm assuming from his lack of saying so that the crew was okay. It certainly looked survivable, though embarrissing.

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2H4
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:38 pm

Found it!


http://people.attens.com/bierma/Misc/C-130_Mishap.mpg


The airplane is a C-130, highly modified with rocket engines, yes rocket engines. This plane was modified in 1980 when the Iranians took over the American Embassy in Tehran. The plane was designed to land and take-off in the length of a soccer field,(~ 600 ft.) which was conveniently located across from the Embassy. The modification was done in record time 3-1/2 months. This was the final flight test, after which, the plane was to leave for Iran with 50 special missions troops.

However, as you can see, this crash ended the mission. The flight test director on the program gave us the scoop. If you watch the landing closely, you can see that the retro rockets on the top of the fuselage fire first, then approximately 3 seconds later, the bottom rockets are fired. Initial flight tests revealed that the bottom rockets were only to be fired when the plane was on the ground. They had so much stopping power, that if they were fired in the air, the plane would stop forward motion, and "drop" to the ground, as happened here.

The sequence was to be as follows: the pilot would fire the upper rockets @ 20' agl (above ground level) and then the navigator would fire the lower rockets when the plane touched down. A problem arose with determining when the plane actually touched the ground. The upper rockets caused so much noise, and vibration, that the crew lost the ability to sense when the airplane actually touched the ground. Thus, through trial and error, the navigator discovered that if he counted to 3 after upper rockets were fired, the plane would be on the ground. So that was the plan: pilot fires upper rockets @ 20' agl, navigator counts to 3, and fires lower rockets. Seems simple enough.

However, on this flight, with all the top military brass watching, the pilot thought he would make the landing as spectacular as possible, and without telling anyone, he fired the upper rockets @ 40' agl. Unaware of pilot's change of plan, the navigator counted to 3 after the pilot fired the upper rockets, and fired the lower rockets. Problem was they were still 20' in the air, and as you can see from the video, they literally dropped out of the sky, causing the plane to crack-up. Lesson learned: Flight test plans must be followed to the letter.

This one guy's deviation from the flight plan may have changed history. Had the landing been successful, the mission would have proceeded, and if it would have been successful, and the hostages rescued, Jimmy Carter may have won re-election. While the benefits of another term with Carter could be debated, there's no doubt things would have been different from the Reagan Era.


Source: http://www.slowroll.com/Misc/c130.shtml



2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
KAUST
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:41 pm

Wow...imagine the huge THUMP for the sailors below deck when the C-130 made it's imprint upon the flight deck.

I have heard that most seasoned carrier crews can tell the plane by the sound they make, if not, I bet they could sure tell the mighty Herk!  Big thumbs up  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

KAUST
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HaveBlue
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:31 pm

Yep, that's the video I have 2H4. And nice to hear the detailed description of what happened, all I had ever seen was the video but the details are interesting.
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SlamClick
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:30 am

Spectacular video. Looks like a completely survivable crash though. I'll bet that is somewhat exciting, having the rockets fire and engulf the flight deck in fire!

I have seen a number of Herk wings fail during hard landings. Seems like an unfortunate design feature. One that comes to mind was on one of the drop zones at Fort Bragg. Maybe they need to invest some research in making the fuel system crashworthy in the zone where the wings seem to break.

Then of course there was the air tanker crash near Coleville California that effectively shut down aerial fire fighting in the US. And it did not even touch the ground. (until after...)
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sprout5199
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:51 am

I met the pilot that landed the C-130 on the USS Forrestal (CV-59). His name is Rear Adm. James H. Flatley III(ret). However I did not know it at the time.I was his driver. He was there at the change of command of my ship the USS Flatley (FFG-21), named for his father. Also IIRC he has the most traps of any naval aviator.

Dan in Jupiter

[Edited 2005-02-28 00:00:08]
 
sonic67
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:49 pm

2H4:

Thank you for that. That was impressive to say the least.

I had read about it in an aviation magazine but it seeing corrected a lot of misconceptions that I had.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: C-130 Lands On A Carrier Deck

Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:10 am

I recall seeing pictures of a Fokker F.28 doing approaches to a US Navy carrier, way back when. I think it was in conjunction with selecting a new COD aircraft to replace the Greyhound (which it would seem never happened).
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