bigphilnyc
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United States 767 Awacs?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:12 pm

As I understand it, only Japan has two AWACS aircraft that are 767s. I read somewhere that mentioned that the US has some as well, but I thought the US's AWACS were all 707.

Can anyone confirm for me?

Thanks,

-Phil
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DeltaGuy
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:18 pm

You are correct, the US AWACS aircraft are the E-3 Sentry...now there's a proposed 767-400 AWACS, which I'd love to see Big grin Those wingtips would look hot in military service  Smile

DeltaGuy
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bigphilnyc
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:30 pm

Thanks, I've submitted a correction to the appropriate party.
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SATL382G
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:54 pm

Quoting BigPhilNYC (Thread starter):
As I understand it, only Japan has two AWACS aircraft that are 767s. I read somewhere that mentioned that the US has some as well, but I thought the US's AWACS were all 707.

Japan bought 4 767 AWACS
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
dl021
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:02 pm

BEat me to the punch there SATL...

Also the 764s we are buying are going to become E-10 J-STARS aircraft to supplement the E-8s currently in the inventory. They will not be AWACs aircraft per se. They will be battlefield controllers.
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:25 am

That 767 AWACS must be a real performer....

I wonder were they get enough power to run the radar and all electronics, though.
On "my" E-3 each engine had 2 generators and of those 8, 6 were needed to power the radar.

Meaning, when 1 engine quit, R T B....  Wink

Does anyone have more info an how they generate enough power for the equipment???


Bully
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:47 am

/ Good question. From folks I know who flew on the E-767, the APU is used more at start up, and the gens were redsigned.

The AN/APY-2 is the same on the 4 E-767s as the E-3C, just a new airframe.

The E-10 was going to be a jack-of-all trades, but under the current spiral program it will have multiple varients- Spiral 1 is JStars, Spiral 2, RJ and Spiral 3 AWACS.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 6):
The AN/APY-2 is the same on the 4 E-767s as the E-3C, just a new airframe.

Well...you can't make any better than this, I think !!!!
It is one great radar!!!!!!!

If just the RT wouldn't always have to check on the SF6 gas in the aft lower lobe....oh well you can't have evreything!!!!

And welcome to my R-U list!!!  Big grin

Godspeed

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:11 am

Thanks. The AN/APY-2 is awesome- 1 megawatt of goodness Big grin
the limfact is the computer system, IMO, and that should be fixed with the 40/45 mod.

SF6 is nasty stuff..the poor ART, when I flew on the Brit E-3D the ART was the cook..  Wink gotta love the CFM engines though on the D mods. The TF-33s are olddddddddd.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:21 am

Oh yes...Waddington...!!!
Upon take off I always felt like in a roller coaster....  Smile

And they were always so uptight about their esm system (our's is much better, I think...)

Well the TF33 may be old, but at least on the E-3A/B/C's you don't need to replace the cowlings (after you've hit the rwy....)  Wink plus our on-station time is not as long.... Big grin

Bernd
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SATL382G
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting Bully707 (Reply 7):
If just the RT wouldn't always have to check on the SF6 gas in the aft lower lobe....oh well you can't have evreything!!!!

OK I give. What's SF6 gas?
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Venus6971
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:24 am

I don't know the specifics of the 767 AWACS but to be able to handle the power needed to run the radar it is not volts but how much heat that it could handle. I imagine the power cables are of a bigger gauge and the KVA rating of the generator(IDG) is larger than the E-3, I am also guessing that the IDG oil coolers are bigger with more volume to keep the generator from melting.
Remember the E-3 has 8 IDG's with a minimum of 7 online to bring up the system, it takes 115 volts 400HZ to the 933 relay then on to the radar with aluminum wire which steps it up 20,000 volts. I just hope that the ART turned on the SF-6 so a hole doesn't burn through a waveguide, its been done.

SF6 is nasty stuff..the poor ART, when I flew on the Brit E-3D the ART was the cook

I remember one instance when a EGW dam failed and allowed ethyl glycol to enter the waveguide and brewed a nasty smelling concoction of burnt SF-6 and antifreeze. Once we broke opened a waveguide to work on it we had to evac the acft and let it air out for 5 days with all the doors opened so we could work in it without getting ill.
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:29 am

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 10):
OK I give. What's SF6 gas?

Hi there !!!

Well SF6 a (liquified??) gas, used to cool the radar equipment.
It is located in the aft lower lobe...

It is heavier than air...everytime the radar technichian needs to go to the aft lower lobe, the engineer needs to vent the lower lobe and the RT needs to wear a full-face mask!!! (Well that was NATO standart ops...during my time.)

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 11):
Remember the E-3 has 8 IDG's with a minimum of 7 online to bring up the system

During my training on the E-3 we were taught that it takes 6 generators to run the radar equipment...in 1999 one IDG was broken but we could have carried out the mission, but it wouldn't diconnect from the no.3 engine and so we had to shut down no.3 and so lost both generators...rendering us unable to power up the complete system...as 6 are needed for the radar and 1 for the rest....

Oh well...on the other hand I could be mixing stuff here.....

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
Venus6971
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:50 am

Well SF6 a (liquefied??) gas, used to cool the radar equipment.
It is located in the aft lower lobe...


Bully,
Not liquefied but inert gas SF-6 (sulfur hexafluoride), it was not used to cool but to purify waveguide so there wouldn't be a arc of electricity to burn a hole or arc in the waveguide(WG) . It will dissipate any CO2 or O2, N2 in the
wg. Power companies use it in transformers, and that was where I got a supply in a emergency while I was Saudi once. In a way you are right that it was a coolant you don't want a hole in a waveguide. EGW was used to keep all the big white parts cool in flight, it had a resativity that had to be monitored by the ART in flight. Its resovoir was in the left wheel well that was being checked by the ART on Preflight insp. You fly it I fix it.
Venus
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:56 am

You are correct bully 6 min gens.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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Venus6971
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:03 am

During my training on the E-3 we were taught that it takes 6 generators to run the radar equipment

We wouldn't even put in the schedule if had 6 generators operable, now if 2 generators give up the ghost inflight and your down to 6, press on if the radar is still running and not power spiking. We would put you in the schedule if you had 7 running but most crews would not like it. There is comfort in numbers and thanks for this thread, I was starting to think my brain was turning to mush
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:03 am

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 14):
Bully,
Not liquefied........

Oh where were you, when I did my initial training in GK in 93/94 ???  Wink  Wink
I did enjoy your explanations!!!! Thank you!!!!  Big grin

Godspeed

Bully

P.S.

If you don't mind, I would likr to add you to my R-U list?!
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
Venus6971
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:08 am

Oh where were you, when I did my initial training in GK in 93/94 ???

I was a crew chief on a KC-135A steamjet probably air refueling you over Germany on one your check flights Big grin
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:15 am

Hmmm....that could be!!!  Wink

But please bear in mind that I was mission-crew, not flight-crew!!!!  Big grin

And you still flew waterwaggons??? Whoa.....now thats interesting!!!
How much water did you carry ( you did use water for the engines, didn't you?? )...I heard somewhere 45 seconds worth....

I sure hope I am not making a fool out of myself!!!!


Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
Venus6971
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:25 am

Bully,
We used over 600 gallons of demineralized water at takeoff to give us a nice kick in the pant's to get of the ground for a 2 minute burn. I was on the steamers to the bitter end before I took my jet to Davis Monathan. Spent much of my time at EGUN in the 92-93 timeframe TDY from K.I Sawyer. Kept volunteering to go back to EGUN. Had a bruenette honey in Nottingham I couldn't get enough of. 1994 I ended up in AWACS (KTIK)for the 3rd and last time until I married a OKie then retired.
Venus
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:34 am

600 Gallons??? THATS A LOT !!!!!

It must have been quite some moment when the water was gone and thrust is reduced....or did you throttle back to climb-thrust before...????

Oh...and those engines were JT3s or J49 (??) ???

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
Venus6971
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:53 am

Bully
You ran the water until it ran out at about 2 minutes during takeoff role then the copilot turned off the switch. Trust me you know when the water cutout. You dropped about 20 feet of altitude and it felt like somebody deployed a drag chute.
The A model used either the Pratt Whitney or Ford built J-57, same engine that was on the Buff A thru G models and the F-100 and F-101. The USAF had a lot of them
Venus
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bully707
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RE: United States 767 Awacs?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:02 pm

One of the engineers, I can't recall the name at the moment..., told me that once.
Like running into a wall he said...

Ahhh...yes...his name was Reed Vanderschel !!!

What a nice guy!!! I hope he is well !!!

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 22):
The A model used either the Pratt Whitney or Ford built J-57

J-57....??? I wouldn't have known that....

Thanks...!!!

It is a blast talking to you!!!!

Godspeed

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70

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