AirOrange
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US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 5:56 am

...sometime? Not likely but will the US presidential plane type change from Boeing 747 to Boeing 7E7 in future? Is there already some news about it?


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garnetpalmetto
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting AirOrange (Thread starter):
Not likely but will the US presidential plane type change from Boeing 747 to Boeing 7E7 in future? Is there already some news about it?

Unlikely. Usually the flagship of the Executive fleet is a 4-engine, so I'd suspect that if Boeing were to go ahead with the 747Adv, sometime down the road you would see the current VC-25s traded in for a 747Adv variant rather than the 787. Keep in mind though, that the current VC-25s are in excellent condition and aren't that old. As for switching to a 380, let's just say I think it's about as likely as the a.net teens ceasing to play armchair CEO.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
EMBQA
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 6:44 am

I'm just interested to know why everyone is so quick to replace the current Air Force 1 when it's just over 14 years old, and its predecessor went over 30 years before replacement....?
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 7:47 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 1):
Usually the flagship of the Executive fleet is a 4-engine

Since when has that been a stricture? The President regularly flies on DC-9, 757, and 737NG that are part of the Executive fleet.
 
AeroVodochody
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One

Wed May 04, 2005 7:55 am

Wow, by the title of the thread I thought you were serious. Anyway, I doubt it would be an A380 because it would probably be too big. I'm thinking 773ER or 772LR, or a new 747 either the -400 or the Adv. The 787 could probably replace the current 757 right?

[Edited 2005-05-04 00:56:46]
Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
 
fredplt
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 8:44 am

You probably won't see the Air Force One replaced for a while, it is still way ahead of its time and is in excellent condition. It is possible that someday a 787 or something new will replace it, but for now, I would be surprised to hear news of a replacement.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
The President regularly flies on DC-9, 757, and 737NG that are part of the Executive fleet.



Psst...FLAGship...as in the large aircraft typically used for intercontinentals. I'm well aware that C-32s, C-9s, and C-40s are used by the executive feleet.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 2:35 pm

Um, maybe this is obvious to me, or maybe I'm just an idiot, but here goes. I would think the President of the United States would buy American. But hey, thats just me...

fluffy
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
jwenting
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 6:38 pm

Depends on who's president.
Kerry would have bought French...
I wish I were flying
 
atmx2000
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 7:08 pm

How much use do the 747s actually get? I can't imagine that they will put on cycles at even a third of the rate that a 747 in scheduled service would.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
jwenting
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 9:21 pm

Not a lot. the President flies them maybe once a month on average I think (return trips) and they are relatively lightly loaded during those trips (no cargo and feedstuff for 300+ cattleclass pax).

They're 14 years or so old but have seen less use than a regular 747 would in a year or two.
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SATL382G
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Wed May 04, 2005 11:53 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
How much use do the 747s actually get? I can't imagine that they will put on cycles at even a third of the rate that a 747 in scheduled service would.

FYI: The oldest of the VC-137s (970) retired a few years ago with just over 20000 hours. Not a lot for a 40 year old jet...
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
AFHokie
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 7:59 am

 covereyes  Not another "when will the USAF buy a an Airbus 380 for Air Force One thread...."

Let all the "Air Force One is the name for the USAF aircraft currently carrying the president/the USAF will only ever buy American/Airbus vs. Boeing" posts begin....


How many folks are going to  stirthepot 

I guess I better  duck  cause the  box  is about to start....

Don't you just love the smilies?  biggrin 
 
bennett123
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 8:35 am

Given the amount of aggro re the KC330, I think that the chance of an VC380 are Zero. I do not that this would have been any different under Kerry.

Just because the guy can speak French.

Given the family links to Texas and Florida Dubya can probably speak Spanish, but I do not see him flying on an Airbus. Remember Airbus is multinational and includes CASA.
 
AeroVodochody
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 8:38 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 7):
Um, maybe this is obvious to me, or maybe I'm just an idiot, but here goes. I would think the President of the United States would buy American. But hey, thats just me...

It's all about politics, if they're trying to "promote international cooperation" or butter up the french for something, etc. they could buy Airbus, but I doubt they will.
Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
 
fredplt
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 9:03 am

I will be surprised if the US ever buys a plane built outside the US for its military, but one never knows. I believe it will be a long time until you see a change to the current AF One fleet, and yes, whatever plane the president is on, is AF One.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 2:58 pm

Quoting AeroVodochody (Reply 14):
It's all about politics,

That's my point. Why piss off American (more or less) companies when you wouldn't have to. He (the prez) does a good enough job already when it comes to pissing off the rest of the world.

fluffy
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
HaveBlue
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 3:25 pm

Fred,

What about the B-57 Canberra, the AV-8 Harrier, the HH-65 Dauphin, the K-21 Kfir, etc. The US Military has bought foreign aircraft before, but not for the Presidential fleet.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 4:30 pm

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 17):
The US Military has bought foreign aircraft before, but not for the Presidential fleet.

*cough next Marine One cough*
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
greaser
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 05, 2005 4:41 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 18):
*cough next Marine One cough*

Which is why a KC-380 will be harder than ever to push through. Already people are talking about how PM Blair applied pressure on Bush to 'give back for the EH-101'...

But everyone's forgetting something. The VC-25 is young. It will receive at least 10 more years of service, so dont hold your breath for a replacement. If the -ADV is not launched, which is ever so increasingly unlikely, and if by then no other American manufacturer builds a competing aircraft, the 777 or a similar sized aircraft will almost certainly be chosen. It's nice to have dreams, but they dont always come true...rememeber we dont have to keep going bigger and bigger, there's no sense in that.
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Alessandro
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Fri May 06, 2005 2:36 am

I wonder if the current AF1, could be updated to Adv?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
bennett123
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Fri May 06, 2005 4:10 am

Greaser

Are you saying that a B747ADV launch is more or less likely.
 
AeroVodochody
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Fri May 06, 2005 8:05 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 16):
That's my point. Why piss off American (more or less) companies when you wouldn't have to

No matter what the prez does, he'll always piss someone off, so he'll do whatever pisses less people off at the time.
Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
 
kl911
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Fri May 06, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting AFHokie (Reply 12):
Don't you just love the smilies?

 no 
 
atmx2000
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Fri May 06, 2005 8:42 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 10):
Not a lot. the President flies them maybe once a month on average I think (return trips) and they are relatively lightly loaded during those trips (no cargo and feedstuff for 300+ cattleclass pax).

Well I would imagine the furnishings and communications electronics of the AF1 are fairly heavy, and you have to haul all the reporters and staff around along with their belongings. I'm sure they aren't filling the plane to the brim, but it probably is reasonably well loaded.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 07, 2005 1:26 am

Man, I can't believe I'm going to say this out loud, but that artists rendering of the A380 in "Presidential Colors" looks pretty damn good.

Still not as good as this one though................  cool 

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00003006
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pilotpip
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 07, 2005 3:17 am

While the communications gear on the current VC-25 is heavy, I'm sure that through the usage of more modern electronics they could be made much, much smaller and lighter. I would imagine that the next executive aircraft will be a 777 or a predecessor to it (787?). As many others have said, those decisions will have at least 20 years to be made before it becomes an issue.
DMI
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 07, 2005 5:08 am

Agreed. I speculate that if/when a 747-400ADV replaces the current VC-25's, it could also replace the E4-B's as well. With computer and communications technology getting smaller and more reliable, this could be "thinkable". The "unusable" space above the main deck could house plenty of space for desk style computer stations which could double as a war room. The war room could be linked to the main conference room with video hook ups to a couple plasma screens for monitoring operations. The "regular" upper deck could hold the current communications equipment and contain crew rest areas. I'd keep the main deck the way it is.  cool 

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bennett123
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 07, 2005 5:36 am

Boeing Nut

According to the caption, that is a B747-400 not a B747ADV.

Are you suggesting that they will buy a B747-400 shortly or that they will buy a used aircraft.

Or alternativly that you did not have picture of the B747ADV to hand.
 
dw747400
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 07, 2005 7:12 am

"I speculate that if/when a 747-400ADV replaces the current VC-25's, it could also replace the E4-B's as well."

Updates on the VC-25As are already allowing those aircraft to take over work previously reserved for the E-4B.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
MidnightMike
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 07, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 1):
Unlikely. Usually the flagship of the Executive fleet is a 4-engine, so I'd suspect that if Boeing were to go ahead with the 747Adv, sometime down the road you would see the current VC-25s traded in for a 747Adv variant rather than the 787. Keep in mind though, that the current VC-25s are in excellent condition and aren't that old. As for switching to a 380, let's just say I think it's about as likely as the a.net teens ceasing to play armchair CEO.

Number of engines is not a requirement for Air Force One, it just happened that to meet the requirements, only "4" Engine aircraft was able to do the job, in the future, it could be a "2" engine aircraft.

As for replacement, there is no need to replace Air Force for another 15 - 20 years. The Presential 747 does not get too many cycles & keep flying for quite a while with no problems.
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Boeing Nut
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 07, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 29):
Updates on the VC-25As are already allowing those aircraft to take over work previously reserved for the E-4B.

I figured that the VC-25's were picking up the slack if you will, but I didn't know that it was that advanced. So my theory should work!  Smile

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 28):
Boeing Nut
*According to the caption, that is a B747-400 not a B747ADV.
*Are you suggesting that they will buy a B747-400 shortly or that they will buy a used aircraft.
*Or alternativly that you did not have picture of the B747ADV to hand.

*Yea, I knew the caption was of a 747-400. It just looks great and it gives an idea of what a "VC-25B" would look like.
*The chance of "Air Force One" being purchased as a used aircraft is nil, and as stated many times before, the current VC-25's have a lot of life left in them.
*And yes, I saw no 747ADV versions of "Air Force One" to link to.
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Boeing Nut
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sun May 08, 2005 12:01 am

Here we go................

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Now, if I were only the President...  cool 
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columba
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One

Sun May 08, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting Fredplt (Reply 5):
You probably won't see the Air Force One replaced for a while

AF 1 is indeed replaced very often, every time the President enters a different airplane  Smile I believe they are at least 2 VC-25As, C-9s, Gulfstreams, 737NGs and the 757s (VC-32 ?) which are sometimes AF 1.
And in brainless Hollywood action movies sometimes a C-130 Hercules :"Ground Controll, our callsign is now changed to AF 1"

If the 747Adv won´t be build -what I don´t hope-I suspect the next flag ship of the presidential fleet being the 777-300ER.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
allstarflyer
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sun May 08, 2005 9:07 am

Quoting AeroVodochody (Reply 4):
Wow, by the title of the thread I thought you were serious.

Yeah, no kidding - way to get a guy to read your thread.  sly 

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 8):
Depends on who's president.
Kerry would have bought French...

Good call.  irked  I like Airbus (shoot, I hope we get plenty more), but there are some things I'd like to keep America 1st.

Quoting Columba (Reply 33):
If the 747Adv won´t be build -what I don´t hope-I suspect the next flag ship of the presidential fleet being the 777-300ER.

By that time, why wouldn't it be the 777-200LR - doesn't the 200LR have greater fuel capacity (should it ever be necessary for the Prez to remain longer in the air for whatever may occur), as well as the greater range? I understand there are tankers, etc., if he would need to remain aloft, but why would they not go with the best in class? Or would it just be overkill?

-R
Living the American Dream
 
columba
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sun May 08, 2005 4:40 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
By that time, why wouldn't it be the 777-200LR - doesn't the 200LR have greater fuel capacity (should it ever be necessary for the Prez to remain longer in the air for whatever may occur), as well as the greater range? I understand there are tankers, etc., if he would need to remain aloft, but why would they not go with the best in class? Or would it just be overkill?

-R

Well the 777-300ER is longer and a good 747-200 replacement, there is more more room to transport all the necessary equipment and the reporters who already travel with the president. Besides I think it looks more elegant then the shorter version but I guess that is not such an important isssue.
I also think that the range of the 777-300ER especially in a V.I.P. version is enough and the ultra-long range of the 777-200LR is not needed.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
allstarflyer
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sun May 08, 2005 5:02 pm

Columba,

I would call that a satisfactory answer. Short and to the point. Thanks.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
pilotpip
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sun May 08, 2005 10:39 pm

Keep in mind that the current VC-25 has aerial refueling capability. I would imagine that it's predecessor will as well. If this is the case, range is a moot point.
DMI
 
columba
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Mon May 09, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 37):
Keep in mind that the current VC-25 has aerial refueling capability. I would imagine that it's predecessor will as well. If this is the case, range is a moot point.

Okay but I doubt that they will ever refuel the plane while the president is on board flying to Australia for a state visit. The aerial refueling system is there for the (hopefully very unlikely event) of an attack and the case that the president has to work on AF 1 and flown to safe place.
For regular flights the aerial refuel system is not being used, they usually take a fuel stop somewhere.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Syarif
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 26, 2005 1:41 pm

A380 would definitely never be an American AF1. But it could make its way to being a chief executive jumbo jet by some outrageously rich Middle East king/sultan!
 
RICARIZA
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Thu May 26, 2005 10:05 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 7):
Um, maybe this is obvious to me, or maybe I'm just an idiot, but here goes. I would think the President of the United States would buy American. But hey, thats just me...

fluffy

Exactly, you don't see him on Mercedes Benz limousines either.. only Lincolns
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
aa757first
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 28, 2005 2:16 am

I would hope our President would always choose the American option, even if it was inferior to the foreign product.

AAndrew
 
columba
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 28, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 41):
I would hope our President would always choose the American option, even if it was inferior to the foreign product.

AAndrew

Every President or Head of State prefers home build products for its fleet whether cars or planes.
That is why Russia flies the IL 96, Germany the A310, France the A319 and the US the 747.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
RICARIZA
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 28, 2005 11:15 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 42):
Every President or Head of State prefers home build products for its fleet whether cars or planes.
That is why Russia flies the IL 96, Germany the A310, France the A319 and the US the 747

I wonder why Brazil doesn't use a EMBRAER for its president


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columba
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 28, 2005 4:03 pm

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 43):
wonder why Brazil doesn't use a EMBRAER for its president



Size and Range ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
lehpron
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 28, 2005 4:11 pm

Technically, any flying machine that holds the President of the United States changes its callsign to "Air Force One", the future President merely has to step aboard any flyable machine (even if it were an ultralight) and it will become Air Force One.

Will such an airplane, not currently, have that callsign permanently? I do not have enough information to answer that. Unless I had enough pride, then not in your lifetime. Maybe 747Adv will have one customer...  Wink
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 28, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 45):
Technically, any flying machine that holds the President of the United States changes its callsign to "Air Force One", the future President merely has to step aboard any flyable machine (even if it were an ultralight) and it will become Air Force One.


RAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  

[Edited 2005-05-28 15:38:15]
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
EMBQA
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sat May 28, 2005 10:48 pm

Technically, any flying machine that holds the President of the United States changes its callsign to "Air Force One", the future President merely has to step aboard any flyable machine (even if it were an ultralight) and it will become Air Force One


Incorrect....if he steps on board any US Air Force aircraft it then gets the title Air Force One. A US Marine aircraft......Marine One, a US Army aircraft.....Army One, a US Navy aircraft.....Navy One and US Coast Guard aircraft..... Coast Guard One. By far the top two used are Air Force One and Marine One.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
RICARIZA
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sun May 29, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 44):
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 43):
wonder why Brazil doesn't use a EMBRAER for its president

Size and Range ?

Well, the EMBRAER 190 has a range of 2,200 m, enough to cover all over Brazil and South America (from a certain point, Brazilia for example)... and it can take around 100 people... I think is a great option for the Brazilian President.. don't you think?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
flight152
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RE: US President Selects A380 As New Air Force One...

Sun May 29, 2005 9:48 am

Exactly, you don't see him on Mercedes Benz limousines either.. only Lincolns

Actually, he has a Cadillac.

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