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keesje
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Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:49 pm

Gov. Jeb Bush and economic development officials Thursday will be in Arlington, Va., to formally ask EADS North America to locate an engineering center and aerial tanker assembly plant in Brevard County.

If EADS North America, a U.S. holding company of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., selects Melbourne International Airport as the site for its project, it would immediately mean 200 higher-paying engineering jobs. And if the company gets a major Air Force tanker assembly project, it would result in 1,100 new assembly jobs for Brevard.


http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...D=/20050607/BUSINESS/50607005/1003

IMO apart from the "no way in hell" stuff (& Jeb probably made a phone call..) it does make sense.

From my limited view over the ocean California is rich, hot & old and such a project would mean a serious knowledge / high tech jobs injection for the state.

On the polical site today the Pentagon admitted the KC767 lease deal was nothing more then a bailout. http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/11834005.htm

Who are the other finalist locations for the engineering center?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:05 pm

I believe Charleston, SC is another one.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
IADBGO
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:06 am

On a side but similar note the Washington Post had an interesting article about the final Pentagon report on the Boeing tanker deal that fell through last year. The report was pretty damning of Boeing apparently. Some exerpts from the Post,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2005/06/06/AR2005060601715.html

But a very different account of the deal is shown in an August 2002 internal e-mail exchange among four senior Pentagon officials.
"We all know that this is a bailout for Boeing," Ronald G. Garant, an official of the Pentagon comptroller's office, said in a message to two others in his office and then-Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Wayne A. Schroeder.


The whole article is pretty inflametory.

Just some thoughts

IADBGO

[Edited 2005-06-07 18:08:22]
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:35 am

MLB is my hometown airport...and what a worthless strip it is. Just a few Mad Dogs and 737's and CRJ's from DL, and some flight training...oh yeah, and Northrup Grumman with the E-8 Joint Stars. Brevard County is nothing but a bunch of people who work at the Space Center..without KSC, the place would be a small tourist trap, and that's it. Old folks and their slow Caddies, to be exact Big grin Not sure why EADS would want to go there, although there is room at the airport.

After saying all that, I'm headed down there right after I hit send to go visit my folks  Wink Go figgure.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
kbfispotter
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 3):
MLB is my hometown airport...and what a worthless strip it is.

Why do you say that? MLB is a great airfield. Granted, I have not flown into Melbourne in almost three years, but I used to fly down from Merritt Island on several of my training flight for my private. I think that MLB would make a great location for EADS. There is plenty of land, and there is also a skilled workforce that could easily be employed.
Just because MLB is not a a major destination, and all it has is, in you own words,

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 3):
a few Mad Dogs and 737's and CRJ's from DL, and some flight training...oh yeah, and Northrup Grumman with the E-8 Joint Stars

does not make it a "worthless strip".

KBFIspotter
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A5XX
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:12 am

I wouldn't loose my time, if I were EADS...

We all know that the USAF will never have any Airbus made tanker in it's inventory. The USAF would rather buy an American made, prop driven tanker, instead of buying a state of the art Airbus made jet tanker.

The "Designed and built in the U.S.A", is the key to doing business with the USAF, and overrides any other considerations... At least, nowadays....

Yves.

[Edited 2005-06-09 01:16:15]
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
wingman
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:45 am

Damn straight Yves, especially since we buy $100B more of Europe's stuff than they buy of ours every year why not? And maybe Canada flies prop-driven tankers around the Provinces, we sure don't.
 
A5XX
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:43 pm

Quoting Wingman (Reply 6):
Damn straight Yves, especially since we buy $100B more of Europe's stuff than they buy of ours every year why not? And maybe Canada flies prop-driven tankers around the Provinces, we sure don't.

I was talking about military equipment. Have you seen civilian tankers flying around?

Yves.
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
Contact_tower
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:09 pm

Quote:
Have you seen civilian tankers flying around?


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 Wink

Yeah,yeah.......I know what you mean! Big grin
 
A5XX
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:30 pm

Quoting Contact_tower (Reply 8):
Yeah,yeah.......I know what you mean!

Ok. I stand corrected!  scratchchin   Big grin

Yves.
we are the boeing... resistance is futile...You will be assimilated
 
wingman
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:38 pm

Thanks for the backup Tower but my point was really just that we continue to support the world's economy every year and the Europe's in particular to the tune of $100B. The great news for Europe is that this $100B consists primarily of high tech products such as BMW 3 series cars, MB S500s, SAP enterprise software and lots and lots of cheese, none of which requires anywhere near the financial suppor that Airbus does. So instead of worrying about how much more we can support Europe's economy, let's focus the attention on ways in which Europe and the world can support OUR economy. It's YOUR turn to support US for a little while, just a little while...I promise.
 
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keesje
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Wingman (Reply 10):
BMW 3 series cars

Build better cars!

Quoting A5XX (Reply 5):
overrides any other considerations

& the USAF doesn't mind getting the second best equipment?

Quoting Wingman (Reply 10):
Europe and the world can support OUR economy

Does giving loans count?

 stirthepot 
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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keesje
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:14 am

On a more serious track:

Northrop, Airbus Teaming Up

Northrop Grumman Corp. and the parent company of European jet-maker Airbus have agreed to join forces to try to break Boeing Co.'s monopoly on supplying refueling planes to the U.S. Pentagon, The Wall Street Journal reported.



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-06-08-08-26-00

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
AirRyan
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:21 am

Now I love Boeing as well as the next guy, but the fact of the matter is that they got greedy, lazy, and arrogant with the KC-767 deal with the USAF. When Boeing couldn't compete with McDD's military line, they bought it.

Well, Boeing tried to buy Airbus and they balked, and now look where Airbus is at.

You can rest assure that Grumman remembers how Boeing/McDD duped the Navy and went around Congress to get rid of the Navy's Grumman Tomcats and Intruders in favor of inferior Hornets.

I hope the best product at the best price wins out.
 
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glideslope
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Now I love Boeing as well as the next guy, but the fact of the matter is that they got greedy, lazy, and arrogant with the KC-767 deal with the USAF. When Boeing couldn't compete with McDD's military line, they bought it.

Well, Boeing tried to buy Airbus and they balked, and now look where Airbus is at.

You can rest assure that Grumman remembers how Boeing/McDD duped the Navy and went around Congress to get rid of the Navy's Grumman Tomcats and Intruders in favor of inferior Hornets.

I hope the best product at the best price wins out.

Well said. Sometimes you need a dose of your own medicine to heal.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
SATL382G
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Gov. Jeb Bush and economic development officials Thursday will be in Arlington, Va., to formally ask EADS North America to locate an engineering center and aerial tanker assembly plant in Brevard County.



Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
From my limited view over the ocean California is rich, hot & old and such a project would mean a serious knowledge / high tech jobs injection for the state.

Brevard County is in Florida!!! California is on the other coast. Sorry had to do that since our European friends so often pounce on Americans who get European geography wrong.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
N77014
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:31 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 3):
MLB is my hometown airport...and what a worthless strip it is. Just a few Mad Dogs and 737's and CRJ's from DL, and some flight training...oh yeah, and Northrup Grumman with the E-8 Joint Stars. Brevard County is nothing but a bunch of people who work at the Space Center..without KSC, the place would be a small tourist trap, and that's it. Old folks and their slow Caddies, to be exact Not sure why EADS would want to go there, although there is room at the airport.

Exactly the kind of place they want. It is close enough to draw from the aerospace/tech community already in place, a quiet airfield with room for the plant, close enough to Orlando to find semi skilled labor to work the assembly line, and with Jeb's backing, surely an attractive package can be assembled to entice the manufacturers.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
Jalto27R
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 14):
duped the Navy and went around Congress to get rid of the Navy's Grumman Tomcats and Intruders in favor of inferior Hornets.

Inferior? How could you possibly say the Hornet is inferior to the Intruder and Tomcat?!
 
AirRyan
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting Jalto27R (Reply 17):
Quoting Glideslope (Reply 14):
duped the Navy and went around Congress to get rid of the Navy's Grumman Tomcats and Intruders in favor of inferior Hornets.

Inferior? How could you possibly say the Hornet is inferior to the Intruder and Tomcat?!

How shall I count the ways?

The fundamental Hornet airframe is the losing bid of the lightweight fighter competition bowing out to the F-16.

The Hornet airframe was sacrificed for low costs, thereby while it may be a fighter/attack airframe, it is neither a better A/A platform than the F-14 or an A/G platform than the A-6 Intruder. Jack of all trades, but master of nothing.

Being that Cheney got away with cutting the F-14D program when the Navy had already secured funds from Congress for 392 new builds, and then McDD bypasses Congressional approval for a new fighter jet as is the law and ultimately comes up with a enlarged photocopy of a low-cost, master of nothing airframe in the Super Hornet.

Now I like the F/A-18F and all, but that cannot alter reality - for the time and money invested into the Super Hornet program and had Cheney not single-handedly axed the program going against the grain of democracy and the checks and balances supposed to be in place, the near 400 new build F-14D's would have provided a plethora of spare parts that the Hornet mafia constantly berates the Tomcat community for their maintenance woes.

As well, the F-14D program would have resulted in a much better platform in the long run to have invested all that taxpayer money, engineering, and high-tech electronics that saves the Super Hornet from being an utter fiasco.

[Edited 2005-06-13 22:54:39]
 
Jalto27R
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:56 am

AirRyan,

I completely agree with most of your woes, especially with the Hornet not being the topgun in any particular field. But, that is what I like about it. The Tomcat, on one hand, had an exceptionally long range radar, but it's manuevering capabilities were greatly limited which put it at disadvantage against any of it's counterpart. The Intruder, a slow but very effective aircraft yes. Though, what I like about the Hornet is that it incorporates all the fundamental parts of a fighter jet needed, which keeps it in balance with all of it's competitors. In this way, it has no one particular disadvantage to take against it. I agree that the steps Cheney took were not good in any way, but the F-18's ability to in some ways combine the Intruder's and Tomcat's qualities make it an effective replacement aircraft. With the introduction of the JSF, we will have to see what role the F-18 will take, and what will be of the F-14 and Intruder.

Mike
 
AirRyan
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RE: Bush To Ask Eads For Aircraft Plant (Jeb)

Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:24 pm

I like the Hornet alright, but there are other platforms I would just rather have instead. I would rather have modernized new build F-4's before a legacy Hornet, and I'd rather have a CVW of moderinized F-14's and A-6's over the Super Hornet.

The only thing that saves the Super Hornet is the high-tech gadgets Boeing engineers were able to stuff into it, a lot of which the same modern high tech electronics that for the price of the Super Hornet development could have been better spent in the Tomcat and even the Intruder platform for that matter.

I'm behind the F/A-18F, not a big fan of the F-18E, and since hindsight is 20/20 and we have no time machine, we have to make the best of the situation. Hopefully our Super Hornets won't have to be embarrassed by enemy Sue Flankers anytime soon.

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