pzurita1
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:03 am

In a recent visit of Mexican President to Russia, Mexican and Russian delegations signed an agreement on aviation.

Later on, President Fox, in his keynote speech thanking President Putin for the results of this visit, mentioned that he was satisfied with the signature of such agreement among others, including "projects to acquire aircraft, and to develop and cooperate in aeronautical and aerospace fields".

It seems Mexican government is willing to buy Russian frames, and I can only think in military purposes a/c.

Mexican army, navy and airforce main target is fighting against drugdealers, not proper war actions. So, it seems odd that Mexican government might consider Russian supplies due to the heavy interest of American government in this field.

Anyway, I must declare myself completely ignorant not only in Mexican Militar Aviation, but in all militar area.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
HR001
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:07 am

Mexico's armed forces is a long time operator on Russian Built Helicopters and Cargo aircraft.
no fighters.



hr001
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:17 am

Hr001,

Right. Thanks. As I mentioned, I am very ignorant of Mexican militar aviation. It just came as a surprise,never expecting Mexico's armed forces were a long time operators of Russian choppers and cargo.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:23 am

Mexico's "Navy" would be better described as a Coast Guard, and their "Air Force" more of a National Cargo carrier. There is no excuse for the government to treat their people as poorly as they do, and the last thing they need to spend money on is military equipment when it is all for absolutely nothing - they will never be able to match anything that the United States has so why even begin to spend money there?
 
airbazar
Posts: 7109
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:30 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 3):
they will never be able to match anything that the United States has so why even begin to spend money there?

That's a pretty stupid argument, probably the stupidest I've heard in a long time. If that was the only reason for equiping an airforce, there wouldn't be any other country in the World with an airforce. By the same token, there are many other places the US governemnt could be spending the billions of dollars they're wasting in that silly, ridiculous war in Iraq.
 
AirRyan
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:47 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 4):
stupid argument

Stupid eh? It's actually so brilliant that it's the way it is.

It's the same principle why Japan doesn't build any larger military than they have before now - the US has protected them since WWII from any potential force from harming Japanese borders or interests.

Anything that any potential aggressor would do to Mexico would result in a full US military response as well, so when the Government of Mexico cannot even stop their own people from a mass exodus to the "promised land," what possible purpose does the Mexican "military" have with combat aircraft?  Smile

Face it - the Government of Mexico is a puppet regime run by the drug lords with the money more than it is by the will of the people. The people are dangled on puppet strings just enough to prevent a civil revolt.

The War in Iraq has been over for nearly 2 years now and Saddam was ousted - mission accomplished. WWII Japan wasn't rebuilt overnight so don't expect Iraq to be, especially when the entire region is far less sophisitcated and intelligent/educated compared to what the Japanese had going for them in 1945. If Bush had any cohones half of Ft. Hood would be relocated to Mexico City and the people of Mexico would be liberated from the corruption and swine otherwise known as the Mexican government.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
The War in Iraq has been over for nearly 2 years now and Saddam was ousted - mission accomplished

You are kidding me, right?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 3):
they will never be able to match anything that the United States has so why even begin to spend money there?

Who said that Mexico wanted to match the U.S. Airforce???
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
The War in Iraq has been over for nearly 2 years now and Saddam was ousted

The war is over??? I didn't see this on CNN.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
If Bush had any cohones half of Ft. Hood would be relocated to Mexico City and the people of Mexico would be liberated from the corruption and swine otherwise known as the Mexican government.

Do you think the people of Mexico would allow your precious president to take over Mexico????? I dont think so. Just because the U.S. has greater military power doesn't mean Mexico and world will allow this to happen!

Oh and the U.S, state, city governments dont have corruption???

[Edited 2005-06-23 20:16:41]
 
bennett123
Posts: 7527
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:54 am

What would be the point of Mexico spending a lot of money on the military.

Who is the potential enemy.
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
Do you think the people of Mexico would allow your precious president to take over Mexico????? I dont think so. Just because the U.S. has greater military power doesn't mean Mexico and world will allow this to happen!

Nobody wants to take over Mexico, they just want it to run like the US's neighbor to the North and even Spain of whom most of Mexico and their language is descended from. The people of Mexico need to be liberated from their own government and if they still thought that hypothetical action was an act of war against they and their "nation," the US military has the ability to annihilate any and everything in Mexico. Cinco de Mayo is to celebrate Mexico's seemingly only military victory against France of all historical military powerhouses, come on now.

Mexico needs to be run more like Spain where it descends from, that way their people won't even want to, let alone have to - illegally enter into the United States because they don't have money for health care, education, or opportunity, etc. Rather than force pressure on their own puppet government, they run away to another society and w/o participating in it, they seek to collect benefits from it. There is no excuse for the people of Mexico not to have every opportunity that the people of Spain and Canada have.

The government of Mexico picks and chooses what treaties they want to abide by with the US as they won't extradite even violent criminals to the United States because they could face the death penalty, yet the US government continues to fail in addressing the lousy Mexican government because they are too worried about political votes back in their own districts now flooded with Mexican immigrants, whether they are legal or not.

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 7):
Who said that Mexico wanted to match the U.S. Airforce???

What's Mexico need combat aircraft for, UFO's? They have zero need for any combat aircraft - any hostile threat would be quickly averted by the US military for many reasons to include the US not wanting any potential problems such as the Germans who lobbied Mexico in WWII. So what good would it be to buy even one squadron of Sukhoi's or MiG's when the country has so many other problems and needs not a single combat aircraft?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
You are kidding me, right?

It's all a matter of perspective and semantics - many refer to Vietnam as a War but as a former Marine myself I view that as an insult to all those that lost their lives over there to call it a war. I call it a conflict or combat, but choose not to recognize it as a War. If it was a war, then the military would have been allowed to conduct it as they saw fit such as they did in WWI and WWII and the United States military would have been successful. The "War" in Iraq was over when the allied forces toppled the Saddam regime and disbanded the Iraqi military. This police action since then where people die every day is combat sure, that cannot be denied - but I wouldn't label it as a war when there is no or loosely defined opposing force or political structure. (Sounds like Vietnam, doesn't it?)

[Edited 2005-06-23 22:33:21]
 
socal
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:20 pm

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:12 am

Why argue about this, Mexico might just be getting a good price from Russian aircraft builders. And they do have very good aircraft. Its dumb to involve politics that have nothing to do with the thread too...........
I Love HNL.............
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:03 am

Military equipment are all about politics, but I guess I'm just venting... a resident of Texas has me nothing but upset with the "Government" of Mexico. Fox is a good man, but he has shown how much of a battle one faces when trying to fix all the problems in the government. If the Mexican military wanted to actually step up efforts against drug cartels, they can take away the plush amenities the drug leaders live in while suppossedly in prison, and then buy some attack helicopters and aircraft and "get r' done," I'd have no problem with that!
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:55 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 10):
Spain of whom most of Mexico and their language is descended from

you're correct in that they both speak spanish, but your argument looses me after that. Last time I checked, the majority of the people living in Mexico are native american, decendants of the Aztecs/Pueblo, and other tribes.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 10):
there is no or loosely defined opposing force or political structure. (Sounds like Vietnam, doesn't it?)

Um, I'd have to say the Viet Cong, the NVA, North Vietnam as a whole...they were just a little more than a loosely defined opposing force
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:52 pm

AirRyan,

Is there any way to put you in my DISRESPECTED user list?

Most of your arguments are the kind of white-America-trash realpolitik.
It seems I am reading Rambo or some other action figure icon.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
Venus6971
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:55 pm

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:31 am

Well I don't want to sound xenophobic but the only people who can fix Mexico are Mexicans. The only thing that the U.S. can do to help is close the border which is to force the Mexicans clean up their own government. (tough Love)I have many Mexican friends who are legal and illegal and we talk about the tragedy of what is going down there. The corruption is getting so bad that even the well to do are leaving, I don't blame the illegals who come here. You have to think how bad it has to be when individuals cross deserts in searing heat and even the Yuma bombing range with all the live ammo still littering the ground. Two Weeks ago the police chief of Nuevo Laredo who was gunned down the same day he was sworn in. My Mexican friend says the U.S. screwed up in 1845 by not annexing the country instead of just vanquishing it then leaving. Now as a U.S. citizen I am concerned why a country like Mexico would want Tactical Fighters for a military that is rife with corruption, maybe to take out U.S. AWACS monitoring traffic, shoot down USCG helicopter gunships that are quite effective against go fast smuggling boats or be hired out to take out Columbian A-37 or DEA OV-10's crop dusters which are bad for business.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
JOSEMEX
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 11:44 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
If Bush had any cohones half of Ft. Hood would be relocated to Mexico City and the people of Mexico would be liberated from the corruption and swine otherwise known as the Mexican government.

Vaya sarta de pendejadas.

I have a better idea to stop all these drug cartels that worry you so much: instead: destroy the market for the drugs. And the biggest market for drugs is...

So, before proposing drastic measures against other countries (we hate corruption as much as you do), apply those drastic measures to your own and, believe me, the biggest part of the problem will go away.

If there was not a market for the massive amount of drugs that flow from Mexico to the US, these cartels would have no power and they wouldn't be able to make any business.

Yes Mexico is the diving board for all these drug cartels, but the U.S. are the swimming pool.
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 14):
Most of your arguments are the kind of white-America-trash realpolitik.
It seems I am reading Rambo or some other action figure icon.

Cry me a river... and on a lighter side - Darwin started it!  

Feel free to tell me where I'm wrong - I'm always open to debate!

Quoting JoseMEX (Reply 16):
Vaya sarta de pendejadas.

Metete sa vaina en el culo, Mein Drittweltnachbar zum Süden.  

Quoting JoseMEX (Reply 16):
I have a better idea to stop all these drug cartels that worry you so much: instead: destroy the market for the drugs. And the biggest market for drugs is...

I agree - but even in Afghanistan when the US had the chance after they ousted the Tally-Whackers they still let the Poppy farms live rather than destroy them and all the heroin - and why, so as not to ruin their most prevalent source of income?!

It seems the War on Drugs that Bush senior started to campaign about back in the late 80's was more gimmick than substance. Something tells me the US Military could do a lot more than what they are against the drugs cartels who by Bush II's own accord, harbor and support terrorism. And even after not addressing the actual issues that lie far South of Mexico, at least the United States could enforce their Southern border but too many crummy politicans on the US' side won't even address the issue like the majority of the voting constituents in the US want.

Quoting JoseMEX (Reply 16):
So, before proposing drastic measures against other countries (we hate corruption as much as you do), apply those drastic measures to your own and, believe me, the biggest part of the problem will go away.

But it's not just about the drugs - its how even Hispanic friends of mine won't go down to Mexico because they distrust the police and "federalis" and all the corruption. I wouldn't waste a dime of mine on tourism for Mexico when you hear reports about the US State Department issuing warnings to those on the border towns. You don't even have to commit a crime to get thrown in jail and have the keys tossed and lawyers, well lets just say you better have the A-Team's number on speed dial if Chief Wiggum en Español and his crack team of Roscoe P. Coletrain's get a hold of ye old Gringo.

The first thing illegal immigrants from Mexico do when they get to the States is start off their "new-life" by violating the law and they want nothing to do with assimilating into the United States society by continuing to wave their flag of Mexico around as if they are so proud to have gotten out of there like it was Cuba. Far too often they just want to reap the benefits without paying their dues like everyone else. I don't care who you are or where your from, but that doesn't sit well with any other immigrant or descendant of immigrants here in the United States as all but the Native American Indians are. Besides those descended of England, all immigrants to the US before now have had to learn English yet somehow there is this big PC-BS fasade that Spanish-only tolerance is okay in the land of only one official language that happens not to be Spanish.


Yeah, the Mexican Air Force needs combat aircraft like Castro needs cigars.

[Edited 2005-06-25 01:44:16]
 
GDB
Posts: 12679
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:45 am

Mexico has a token force of F-5E's, quite sufficient in the medium term for general 'air policing', intercepting off course airliners etc.

They do need choppers, maritime patrol types, transport of course, in a more para military role.

As for drugs, well what goes around comes around, for decades the US encouraged, installed, propped up, some very nasty regimes in the region, against the 'red threat' plus the more traditional looking after US business interests.
Many of these regimes, apart from their brutality. (usually much worse than even repressive Cuba, where the US is soooo concerned with 'Human Rights', yeah right), were modern Robber Barons, often with deep links to the narco trade.
This is how that Narco Empire grew so big, so powerful, so often, immune from government action, until the US finally took notice in the late 1980's (when the problem was no longer confined so much to US ghettos, but more out in the affluent suburbs, coincidence?).
Even old Pineapple Face in Panama was one of the USA's boys, until he got too excessive, too big for his boots.

From the Munroe Doctrine to the Cold War, the US had part of the responsibility for the unsavory regimes, that eventually were so helpful to the drug lords.
The situation is better in some respects now, but the damage was done.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Mexican AirForce Buying Russian Aircraft?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:07 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
As for drugs, well what goes around comes around, for decades the US encouraged, installed, propped up, some very nasty regimes in the region, against the 'red threat' plus the more traditional looking after US business interests.

This is in the past. Just look at the "propped up" Columbian military which is pirmarily funded by the US government on the taxpayers bill. Trying to insinuate that the US is somehow currently covertly allowing the drug trade is ridiculous. Maybe in the past(hint-move on), but no country in the world spends as much resources against the drug trade as the US. Again, the US funds the Columbian military as well as most large scale drug reconnaisance done in Latin America. I've seen plenty of the aircraft being "handed over" to these governments outfitted with the latest equipment and training to fight the drug war, free of charge. Anyone care to guess the number of CIA or DEA operatives involved? America has not been involved with legal drug trades since Noriega. Please name one "nasty regimes" that are still in place because of illegal American drug policy-you would be hard pressed.
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