flynavy
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Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:14 pm

Closing Oceana? It should happen, imo. One thing is certain: Virginia Beach will continue to grow, and so will operations Oceana. Oceana is the busiest military installation in the US. The USN has stated that a major disaster is an accepted eventuality.

The city of Virginia Beach is worried about the effects Oceana's closure will have on its economy. Well...

I'm from Orlando. Most people know Orlando for the tourism. But what many people fail to realize is that Orlando was once a HUGE military town. Navy boot camp used to be there, as well as the Navy's Nuclear Power School (now in Charleston, SC), NAS Sanford (now the Orlando-Sanford International Airport), and the main Orlando International Airport itself used to be a large B-52 base (hence its IATA code, MCO, for McCoy AFB). All of these facilities are now gone. In fact, the former site of RTC Orlando/NTC Orlando has been completely demolished and the land has been re-zoned for residential housing. A majority of the land already has neighborhoods built on top of it. And, Orlando, today, is anything BUT a ghetto, especially the land the base was once built on.

I'd also like to point out that the Norfolk International Airport is experiencing growing pains, also. It might make the most sense to close Norfolk International, and move the commercial traffic to the ex-Oceana airfield. Commercial aircraft are much quieter than the fighter jets currently stationed there. And with the Hampton Roads region growing rapidly, demand for air travel will without a doubt, increase. The Norfolk/Newport News MSA is larger than Las Vegas, btw.

I share the opinion others here have that they should have kept the Hornets at Cecil Field and Jacksonville and re-positioned the Tomcats/Intruders there, instead of the opposite.

I'd also like to point out that I, myself, work at Oceana in one of the Hornet commands stationed there.

Chris W.
Hampton, VA
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
Duce50Boom
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:36 pm

Chris,

Have you heard anything on the grapevine about where you guys (East coast hornets) would move to? I've heard Moody but am wondering if you guys have heard differently
 
flynavy
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:24 pm

Moody seems to be the base floating around the news stories about this issue, yes. Of course, I'd think it would benefit the Navy if they built a state-of-the-art facility from the ground up, or completely rennovated an existing field in its entirety. I'd rather see a brand-new facility in Northeast NC.

Oceana's 5R/23L (12,000' x 200') is also a NASA orbiter divert strip, btw.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
gocaps16
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:06 am

Chris, very well put. For me, I don't really care as right now, it's just a thought process of either being realigned or possibly shutting it down. The location for Moody will be in the middle of the boondocks, heck, anyone ever heard of Valdosta, GA? But, it would be great for the fighters to fly around since noise is an issue here in Virginia Beach. If anyone ever been here, you can sometimes see the Tomcats and Super/Hornets flying around the city as up to 1000' MSL which is really low and produce some serious noise. For Moody, there will be no noise issues with the community. This is just my opinion.

Kevin
 
ftrguy
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:34 am

Chris,
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. I don't think Virginia Beach will recover as easily as Orlando or any other town. Orlando is in Florida for one and has many other tourist attractions (Disney, etc...). The weather is essentially warm all year around and can support year around tourism. Getting there is fairly easy as well. It is located in the center of the state with interstates coming at it from nearly every direction.
Virginia Beach doesn't exactly have the nicest beaches in the world. It�s only consistently warm from Memorial Day to Labor Day. From the North we're easy to get to, but what about the west? I'm sure you've driven on US 58 and seen what a nightmare that can be and US 17 isn't exactly the best stretch of road from the south. People from the North could drive only a couple more hours and be in the much nicer beaches of North/South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida.
So as far as tourism goes, I don't think Virginia Beach will recover on the basis of tourism. Its going to be a long time before this city will get back to its "Oceana" days.
Look at how many cars are out there with DOD stickers. How many of those would be gone if Oceana closes. What about all the people who have jobs that are supported in large part by military members or their families. Think about every place you spend money from McDonalds to the grocery store, bars, even to the place you live. Now multiply that by every person who works at Oceana and don't tell me that won't have a dramatic effect on the economy here.
In a nutshell, I just don't think Virginia Beach has the assets or resources to attract a large amount of businesses or growth in a short amount of time. The whole reason this city is growing like it is, is because of the military. If Oceana closes, the real estate market bubble is going to burst seeing how 5 to 10000 people will be trying to sell houses or other property. Property values are going to go through the toilet making this city even less attractive to new people.
I agree with you that a major mishap is an "accepted eventuality" and when it comes, the movement to close Oceana will grow exponentially. I don't really blame the Navy for all of these problems, I blame the city. They allowed development to grow and grow against the recommendations of the Navy and they will soon be paying for it. I do think the Navy needs to grow some balls and stand up to these Anti-Noise groups. These groups�s argument is that the Navy, city, and realtors were not honest about the noise when they moved in. Let me tell you something... If I'm going to spend $175,000 (rough average house price in Virginia Beach) on a house, I'm going to do a little more than take some realtor's advice on jet noise. Last I heard a realtor is trying to make money off of you by selling you this piece of property. If you're going to live 2, 5, or even 10 miles from a MASTER JET BASE and you expect there to be no noise, you should go take a long walk off a short pier! These people are just trying to capitalize on their own laziness by not doing their homework on buying a house.

Just my $.02.

By the way, I too am stationed at Oceana and I Make Jet Noise.
 
flynavy
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:04 am

True. But Orlando lost a TON of jobs and suffered a drain on its local economy, too. I try to think positively about the situation, but yeah, I'd also agree with you in that the majority of the fault lies with the city itself.

Oh, and welcome to my respected users list.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
LMP737
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting Flynavy (Thread starter):
Closing Oceana? It should happen, imo. One thing is certain: Virginia Beach will continue to grow, and so will operations Oceana. Oceana is the busiest military installation in the US. The USN has stated that a major disaster is an accepted eventuality.

If urban sprawl is a measuring stick for closing bases then the Navy is going to have to close a lot of other bases. MCAS Miramar, NAS North Island and 32nd street come to mind. Don't forget, just because the area around a base is sparsely populated does not mean that will not change. Some of the older guys in my squardron at Miramar told me that out side the north gate there was nothing in the 70's. Now it's nothing but strip malls, apartments and industrial parks.

IMHO I think the Navy should stay at Oceana. I'm curious how much money they would save by moving to a place like Moody. Then there's the fact having a bases near each other does have it's advantages. When we would do CQ's all we had to do is drive thirty minutes to North Island. The guys at Lemoore had to be flown down.
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CX747
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:58 am

After reading the article, Moody was brought up as a possible location but then crossed off the list. To the best of my knowledge, Moody AFB is to receive several squadrons of A-10s and loose its T-6s etc. All in all, I find it quite interesting. 10 years ago, Moody was a F-16/A-10 base. Then the A-10s and F-16s were transferred. T-6s came in, and now the base will once again host A-10s! I'm not sure how many A-10s squadrons will be based there, but 1 of the squadrons will be a new squadron or revitilization of a previeously decommissioned one.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
AirRyan
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:15 am

Personally, I'd love to live next to a master jet base or large airport so I could spot and take great photos from my patio/deck/roof, but that's probably just me and I'm in the minority.  Smile

Even out in podunk North Carolina at New River in Jacksonville where Campe Lejuene is as well, on up the road to Cherry Point - there may not be a lot of major population around but there are a lot scattered population. Unless your right on the coast and go out to sea or build a base in the desert, I don't think you can ever truly escape all public whiners nowadays.
 
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STT757
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 7):
Moody AFB is to receive several squadrons of A-10s and loose its T-6s etc. All in all, I find it quite interesting. 10 years ago, Moody was a F-16/A-10 base. Then the A-10s and F-16s were transferred. T-6s came in, and now the base will once again host A-10s! I'm not sure how many A-10s squadrons will be based there, but 1 of the squadrons will be a new squadron or revitilization of a previeously decommissioned one.

That's the Pentagon plan, the BRAC commision is looking at a couple of changes that would effect Moody.

1st.

The whole Air National Guard situation, alot of states are really pissed off about loosing their Air Guard A-10s and BRAC is looking closely and has been critical of the proposed ANG changes made by the Pentagon.

2nd.

The BRAC commision seems keen on doing something about Oceana.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
CX747
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:30 am

When will we hear the final verdict on the BRAC commission?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
SATL382G
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting GOCAPS16 (Reply 3):
The location for Moody will be in the middle of the boondocks, heck, anyone ever heard of Valdosta, GA?

I live there......

Quoting GOCAPS16 (Reply 3):
For Moody, there will be no noise issues with the community

The local community here has gone to great pains to ensure that development did not encroach the airfield or the airfields environmental impact areas. I live about 4 miles south of the base. I see and hear an occasional HH60 or T-6 but have yet to see or hear any of the hispeed jet traffic (T-38s) from my house.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
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STT757
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 10):
When will we hear the final verdict on the BRAC commission?

September is when they submit there recomendations to the President, the President can either accept all of their recomendations or none. He can't pick and choose.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Thoughts On Oceana's Future

Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:53 am

Well our Governor (Jeb Bush) and our Jacksonville mayor (John Peyton) are both as we speak, out campaigning together to bring the Navy back to Jacksonville from Oceana...specifically, to Cecil Field. Would be amazing to see it happen, I'm glad theyre working on getting em back. Time will tell as to what happens...only took em 10 years to figgure it out!

DeltaGuy
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