Airbuff
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Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:17 am

Snowbird jet crashes at Thunder Bay, Ont
Last Updated Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:07:48 EDT
CBC News
There are reports that a Canadian Forces Snowbird aerial demonstration jet crashed at or near an airshow Wednesday in Thunder Bay, in Northwestern Ontario.

The Snowbird team was to appear at the show at 5:30 p.m., but the event was cancelled 10 minutes later, after an announcment that a plane had crashed.

An organizer for the event said the plane that crashed was one of the Snowbirds aeronautical team, but that was not immediately confirmed by police.

No other details are available.

[Edited 2005-08-25 00:20:17]

[Edited 2005-08-25 00:32:02]
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Bobster2
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:47 am

"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
Jalto27R
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:48 am

Not good, not good at ALL.

Mike
 
jutes85
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:47 am

There is a reason that the tutors are used as training aids.
nothing
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:04 pm

Sunuva*itch! If this keeps up the Tutor will replace the Sea King as Canada's most crashed aircraft. I'm glad nobody was hurt this time. According to the news clip I found this crash appears to have been a mechanical (engine) problem.
SPAR finished mx on another Tutor at YTR today, it was buzzing around the circuit- so at least the team will be back up to strength.
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Arrow
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 4):
Sunuva*itch! If this keeps up the Tutor will replace the Sea King as Canada's most crashed aircraft.

I don't have the numbers, but I suspect most of the snowbird crashes have involved pilot error -- not surprising when you think of the kind of flying they do. There was an issue many years ago with the tailplane, after a crash in Grande Prairie Alta, but that was fixed with a modification. There might have been another mechanical problem, but I can't recall it. There is no comparison with the Sea Kings.

What makes these planes easy to maintain and keep flying is the sheer simplicity of the design and systems -- there isn't much high tech here to go wrong.

Preliminary reports indicate this one lost an engine. Gee, how rare is that? And when you've only got one (a genuine rarity in most jet flying these days) it kind a guarantees a sticky end to the airframe. Be grateful the pilot ejected and was apparently uninjured.

It's premature to start carping about "old" airplanes and their so-called accident record when they haven't even started the investigation. Engines can quit for a wide variety of reasons -- including fuel contamination, or bird consumption -- neither one a fault of the engine or its systems.

Give these guys a break. Ground the tutors and there are no Snowbirds for the simple reason that this miserly federal government wouldn't ante up the money to give them new mounts.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
WrenchBender
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 3):
There is a reason that the tutors are used as training aids.

They were training aids in 1979 when I was in CFSAOE (look it up). We've always had an abundance of the 5,000 Lb Dog Whistle and they served a dual purpose as both a pilot and maint trainer. Most of the maint trainers were grounded for overstress from bsaic pilot school.

WrenchBender
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MissedApproach
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 5):

I never said they were unreliable or anything, just that a lot have crashed in the last few years. I don't believe they should be grounded either, & I don't think the Tutor is unsafe, although it's age is bound to cause some mx issues. It would be nice to see the boys move into, say, Hawks though. Smile
Here's a list of Snowbird incidents/accidents from today's Toronto Sun:

- Dec. 10, 2004: Capt. Miles Selby died in a fiery collision with Capt.
Chuck Mallet during a training session near Moose Jaw, Sask. Mallet
survived.
- June 21, 2001: Two planes collided while preparing for an air show near
Port Burwell on Lake Erie. No injuries.
- September 2000: Two jets sustained minor damage when the wing of one
aircraft grazed the tail of another on the way to an air show. The pilots
were not injured.
- Dec. 10, 1998: Capt. Michael VandenBos, 29, died after ejecting when his
jet collided with another aircraft.
- 1997: Two Snowbirds touched wingtips over Glen Falls, N.Y., but no one was
injured.
- 1994: Two pilots ejected near Moose Jaw, Sask., sustaining minor injuries.

- 1992: Two pilots ejected safely after a collision near Bagotville, Que.
- 1992: Plane crashed near CFB Moose Jaw due to failed engine bearing. No
injuries.
- 1991: Jet crashed near CFB Moose Jaw during routine training flight. Both
pilots escaped serious injury.
- 1989: Capt. Shane Antaya, 24, killed when plane crashed into Lake Ontario
during air show in Toronto.
- 1978: Capt. Gordon de Jong, 32, killed during air show in Grande Prairie,
Alta.
- 1972: Capt. Lloyd Waterer, 24, killed during air show in Trenton.
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Arrow
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:37 am

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 7):
Here's a list of Snowbird incidents/accidents from today's Toronto Sun:

Point taken -- but I notice the only incidents with a cause attached are collisions -- the others don't say what the cause was. Do we know how many Tutor incidents can be blamed on the equipment?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Report Of A Snowbird Crash In Thunder Bay

Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:28 am

It would seem we can count yesterday's crash as a mechanical failure- we could see some kind of problem at the back of the plane. We saw some smoke and then the pilot ejected from the plane,” said Susan Trevisanutto.(from http://www.airforce.dnd.ca/news/2005/08/25_e.asp)
Pure speculation, but I imagine it's a unique case & not a trend (except for bad luck).


The only other mechanical crash I've found in the 431 Sqn history is the 1992 Moose Jaw crash. All others seem to be pilot related- I'm not sure if that's better or worse. To be honest, I wasn't aware there's been any crashes prior to 1989.

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