khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:42 am

I always have lover going to air-shows, see some of the latest planes and admiring them. The last time I was at an air-show, 2 things happened.

1. I noticed that the F-16s and F-15s have tail hooks, even though they aren't military. Then I remembered seeing that long ago, but had never found out why. So... Why?

2. The Thunderbird crash. Never seen anything like it and don't imagine I will again either. Fortunately the pilot made it out just in time.

Anyway, the main reason for the post is to learn about the thought process behind putting tail hooks on military aircraft that wouldn't likely see an aircraft carrier deck. Let alone, don't really have the main gear strengthened for it either.

Thanks.
KhenleyDIA

*Oh, I did do a search, but didn't easily find anything.
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
daveflys0509
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:15 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:58 am

The F-16 and F-15 have tailhooks in order to catch arrested gear at airfields in emergency situations, such as a brake failure or a hydraulic failure, and come to a complete stop safely without running off the runway. Most of these airfields usually have the gear located in the overrun areas of the runways. Some of the airfields also have a barrier engagement system which is essentially a net that pops up to catch the aircraft at the end of the runway. Hope this answers your question.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7797
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Thread starter):
I noticed that the F-16s and F-15s have tail hooks, even though they aren't military.

What...? Since when has the F-16 and F-15 'NOT' been military..? You've lost me.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
What...? Since when has the F-16 and F-15 'NOT' been military..? You've lost me.

From the context it appears he meant "Navy" and not "Military". Surely you could have figured that out, no?  Wink


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
What...? Since when has the F-16 and F-15 'NOT' been military..? You've lost me.

OOPS! I meant apart of the navy.
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting Daveflys0509 (Reply 1):
The F-16 and F-15 have tailhooks in order to catch arrested gear at airfields in emergency situations, such as a brake failure or a hydraulic failure, and come to a complete stop safely without running off the runway. Most of these airfields usually have the gear located in the overrun areas of the runways. Some of the airfields also have a barrier engagement system which is essentially a net that pops up to catch the aircraft at the end of the runway. Hope this answers your question.

It may sound stupid, but I was hoping for something a little more exciting.  Smile Something like, F-16's were designed to lang on carriers in the event that they had to make an emergency landing. Okay, maybe not. But, just thinking of the runways we have and that they can fly out of, it just surprises me that they would bother with the tail hook for that reason. I mean, most runways, if they are going to crash, they are going to crash. If they find out they don't have brakes, then they will likely find out too late... right?

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
AGM114L
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:57 am

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
I mean, most runways, if they are going to crash, they are going to crash. If they find out they don't have brakes, then they will likely find out too late... right?

hence the reason for the tail hook
My Boeing can blow up your Boeing
 
tnsaf
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:58 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:37 am

It can also be used on aborted take offs to stop going off the end. It is a fairly standard safety feature. The F-104 had a hook too.
700 hours and counting...
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:25 am

Remember that fighter jets have no reverse thrust, yet they can and do go pretty darn fast when taking off and/or landing and are often laden with external fuel and weapons. This poses quite a challenge when you have an aborted take off, faulty brakes, or landing with an engine out. Or landing with one wing missing like that F-15 in '83 (arrestor hooked got ripped out the fuselage, got stopped by the arrestor net).


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
Something like, F-16's were designed to lang on carriers in the event that they had to make an emergency landing.

And snap off it's landing gear in a matter of miliseconds  Wink

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
f4wso
Posts: 942
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:15 pm

The barrier engagements I had in my F-4 days were all the result of hydraulic failure prior to landing. Icy runways were also a potential reason to use the hook. If the crosswind component exceed the dragchute limit (I think it was 35 knots), then the hook may be used if needed.

The memory items for an aborted takeoff were:
THROTTLES - IDLE
CHUTE - DEPLOY
HOOK - DOWN

Gary
Cottage Grove, MN, USA
Seeking an honest week's pay for an honest day's work
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:36 pm

Okay, you sold me on their purpose.  Smile Thanks! Now, how often do they get used? Which jets have them?

F-16
F-15
F-18 (non naval versions)

Does the F-22?

I guess I have missed out on so many air-shows that I have even forgotten what all our military flies now. I remember the good old days when you would see F-14s, F-111s, A-4s, A-6s, A-7s, F-4s and much more! Now, if you see them, they are just a piece of history (for the most part).

Anyway, thanks for all the answers!

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:09 am

While they don't get used every day, they do get used. Last time I know of it getting used here at Shaw was summer of 2004, but I'm wouldn't be surprised if its been used since.

The F-22 has a tail hook, will have to look to see where I put the photo I took of one at Tyndall.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:41 pm

I think the last time a hook was used in the Netherlands was over a year ago when an Italian F-104 made an emergency landing at Leeuwarden.

Use is rare.
I wish I were flying
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:22 pm

Was there a certain company or country that developed the idea of giving all such jets tail hooks?

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:08 pm

I think someone probably started it for test aircraft when speeds were getting scary in the 1950s and the idea stuck.
I wish I were flying
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4303
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:37 pm

Maybe this is a Nato standard, just like the fire brigade waiting at the runway when airplanes are landing. Its funny, everytime a military plane is landing at CGN, the fire brigade is waiting, as soon as it landed or took off, they are driving to their parking lot again.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4044
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:53 pm

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 7):
It can also be used on aborted take offs to stop going off the end. It is a fairly standard safety feature. The F-104 had a hook too.

Yeah but remember the F-104 had no proper wings... its stall speed was around M1.2 or something Big grin
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
HaveBlue
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
Something like, F-16's were designed to land on carriers in the event that they had to make an emergency landing.

It would be safer for the pilot to eject from that F-16 than attempt his first ever carrier landing in a stricken F-16 with its frail landing gear.

I've seen an emergency landing trap on a runway, but it was a Navy plane. Patricks AFB airshow a few years back, Blue Angel #3's gear had some kind of problem. After the formation dirty loop he left the diamond and circled over the Atlantic while the other 5 finished the show. They then landed, and after all of the were recovered he came in and caught the wire at the beginning of the runway, and was then towed back to show center.
Here Here for Severe Clear!
 
ftrguy
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:17 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:31 am

I've had to use it once for a landing gear issue. It is one of those things that doesn't cost a thing and its better to be safe than sorry. Here at NAS Oceana, I would say a jet has to take a field arrestment just about everyday if not more.

The Airforce jets that have hooks are like toothpicks compared to Navy ones. They're meant to stop the jet over a longer distance. I know Navy aircraft can trap using the Airforce BAK-XX gear, but I wonder if the Airforce can trap on the Navy's E-28? I would assume yes, but I don't know.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:13 am

The hook on the F-16 (or any landbased aircraft) is useless to take the stresses of a carrier landing.

The proposed Navalised F-16 never made it past the drawing board and would have had a completely redesigned landing gear and arrestor hook, far stronger (and heavier) than that carried by the Airforce variants.
The performance and range penalties this would have caused, plus the single engine (and the fact that it was an airforce project but that was never officially mentioned of course) were the causes of the cancellation of that idea.
I wish I were flying
 
Contact_tower
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:05 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:42 pm

Quote:
I know Navy aircraft can trap using the Airforce BAK-XX gear, but I wonder if the Airforce can trap on the Navy's E-28? I would assume yes, but I don't know.

It can, but it's not designed for repeated use. Actually, I seem to recall that a structual inspection is warranted after any kind of hook engagement in a F-16.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4303
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:57 pm

Slightly off-topic, but I know that all F-4 variants have tail hooks, at least the F-4F Phantoms of Germany have those. Could all F-4s, in theory, land on an aircraft carrier, is their hook strong enough?
 
khenleydia
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 22):
Slightly off-topic, but I know that all F-4 variants have tail hooks, at least the F-4F Phantoms of Germany have those. Could all F-4s, in theory, land on an aircraft carrier, is their hook strong enough?

I seem to recall that all F-4s did have hooks and some versions did fly off carriers. Didn't the Blue Angels (or one of the teams) fly F-4s at one time, or am I completely living in la la land?

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:28 am

Khenley, you're right on all counts. Both the Blues and the T-chickens operated F-4s back in the late 60s/early 70s.

Lala land? Only you (or your shrink) can answer that one though  Smile
 
usaafb17fan
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:29 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:59 am

Was it a few years ago (perhaps 2002?) I actually saw the tailhook used by one of the Blue Angels @ an airshow at NAS Oceana. Pretty exciting to me. Until then, I thought that arresting wires were only on the decks of our flighting "flattops". I only joined this website a couple of days ago, and already I'm learning stuff. Thanks!
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 18):
Patricks AFB airshow a few years back, Blue Angel #3's gear had some kind of problem.

I was there...pretty neat to see that happen.

Where I fly, at NAS Jacksonville, we have to land over/between the E-28 gear in our T-34,172, etc..kind of a pain in the butt, but I'm sure when the need arises when I have a tailhook on our a/c, we'll be glad it's there. It's really nothing more than a wire suspended on some donuts, with a pneumatically operated arresting machine on either side of the runway. Enough to stop a Navy jet safely...AF, maybe a little faster than they're used to  Smile

Walk up and grab an F-16 tailhook, you can almost wrap your hand around it. Look an an F-14 or especially an F-4 hook, it's about three times as thick.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Contact_tower
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:05 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:09 am

I guess it's all about weight. No need to fit a navy style hook on a fighter that will most probably never hit the barrier in any case. The F-4 hook is massive, so I guess the F-14 is not a lightweight eighter.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:14 am

Not sure about F-4 hooks. From what I've seen they all seem carrier capable (read identical) (as are all landing gears (not identical but all heavy duty)) but I can't tell with certainty (I'm no F-4 mechanic and have no detailed paperwork on them at my disposal).

It's not just weight CT. The hook and landing gear struts of the F-16 couldn't contain the forces even an F-16 would experience during a carrier landing. The gear would collapse and the hook tear off.
I wish I were flying
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:38 am

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 5):
But, just thinking of the runways we have and that they can fly out of, it just surprises me that they would bother with the tail hook for that reason.

We had an F-15 use the arresting gear here at NAS / Forrest Sherman Field (NPA / KNPA), USA - Florida">NPA not too long ago because the runway was too wet. Had he not had the hook, he would have gone off the end. Needless to say, the hooks are worth the cost.

Quoting Usaafb17fan (Reply 25):
Was it a few years ago (perhaps 2002?) I actually saw the tailhook used by one of the Blue Angels @ an airshow at NAS Oceana.

The 18's used in the NFDT are all fleet aircraft brought in after their sea days are over, so they will all have hooks. And, as an earlier member said, its far better to have them in case of an emergency than to be stuck without one.
Crye me a river
 
usaafb17fan
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:29 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:58 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 29):



Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 29):
The 18's used in the NFDT are all fleet aircraft brought in after their sea days are over, so they will all have hooks.

I probably worded it wrong, but I meant to convey the fact I was surprised @ the use of a tailhook on the runway - not the fact that the 18's had tailhooks to begin with.
Here's a question: when was the first tailhook put on a Navy aircraft, and what type was it? (I plan on looking this up, myself, but thought it'd be food for thought for you all.)
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:31 pm

Quoting Usaafb17fan (Reply 30):
when was the first tailhook put on a Navy aircraft, and what type was it?

The first hooking devices were actually used in conjunction with hooks on the wheel axels on the earlier model Naval aircraft during the 40's-50's. When the aircraft would come down, the rear hook would catch and then the hooks on the front wheel axel would catch another wire to keep the aircraft from flipping over. These were the first 'hook'-type devices and were a breakthrough from the normal arresting net. I don't remember specifics, but I'm sure I could look them up.
Crye me a river
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Tail Hooks On All Military Jets?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:46 pm

There were something like 13 arresting cables as well. Not to mention an LSO with a true set of paddles!

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests