CO737800
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Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:07 am

Canada is putting out bids for 16 new transport planes, in the C130J size. Does anyone know what types they will look. The only 2 that I know of is the new A400 and C130J
 
LY744
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:31 am

An-70!  Wink


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WrenchBender
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:35 am

Yeah, disappointing that they are dealing with Herc replacement ahead of the Fixed Wing SAR program (which would free up Herc assets). Its probably a moot point if the Gov't is punted sometime in the next few weeks/months.

WrenchBender
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Jaws707
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:51 am

I actually read about this in a defense magazine this week. The C-130's Canada flies are all between 18 and 40 years of age and are having major maintence issues. The advantage the C130J is that it can be delivered sooner, while the A400M would require a little more of a wait. Also it talked about how Boeing is suggesting the C-17 to replace some of the airplanes. Personally I would love to see them get at least 4 or 5 C17's to help keep that line open.
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 3):

According to an article in today's National Post they just retired our most worn Herc, '315 (with over 45,000 hours):

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pedro Aragão


19 of the newest Herc's will remain in the fleet with the 16 replacements.
As for the A400, considering the protracted development programs of most military aircraft these days (ATF/F-22, JSF, EF-2000, Gripen, etc) I don't think I would want to depend on a program that doesn't even have a flying prototype yet. Of course, as Italy has show with the Tornado & F-16, there is always the option of leasing until you can get what you want.
Rest assured, the C-17 is still very much on DND's wishlist, but it's probably priority number 5 right now (Herc replacement, heavy lift helicopters, Buffalo/SAR replacement, & Joint Support Ship).



[Edited 2005-11-23 23:51:43]
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CO737800
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:17 am

The Minister of Defense was on the CKNW last week and said big transport planes is not even on the table. He went on to say "why buy them when you can rent them, if a time comes and you can not rent big transports then we will have to look at it". It was from the Bill Good show www.cknw.com sometime last week
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:04 am

Never said they'd get it, just that they want it  Wink

The Canadian military has a time-honoured tradition of becoming infatuated with equipment the government can't afford or is unwilling to buy. The Avro Arrow, a new plane with new engines, a new fire control computer & an untried missile system (Sparrow). The Navy's nuclear sub program ate their budget for years before it finally died. The Joint Support Ship will probably suffer the same fate.

But to return to our favourite subject, didn't the USAF just retire their C-141B's? They probably have what would be considered "low mileage" in Canada.

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kc135topboom
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting CO737800 (Reply 5):
why buy them when you can rent them, if a time comes and you can not rent big transports then we will have to look at it".

The problem with that type of logic is, by the time you need them, it is to late to get them.

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 6):
But to return to our favourite subject, didn't the USAF just retire their C-141B's? They probably have what would be considered "low mileage" in Canada.

I believe most of the C-141Bs have already been scrapped. How 'bout a couple of good "low milage" C-5As? Only flown on Sundays, to church, by little old ANG crews. LOL
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
How 'bout a couple of good "low milage" C-5As? Only flown on Sundays, to church, by little old ANG crews.

Hah! We have some of them come up here (YTR), usually during the summer. They do touch & goes & say they come here because there's no traffic. Woohoo, the home of Canada's strategic airlift has "no" traffic. I think they're from a New York unit.
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Cruiser
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:14 pm

Speaking with some of the pilots at YTR, they said that the C-17 was basically out of the running because they could not drop freight out the back during flight.

The C-130's need to be replaced badly!!!! These planes are flown hard, and 45,000hrs. for a frame is unbelievable. They land on dirt runways, with gravel flying everywhere, yet they hold their own.

James
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ha763
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:23 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 9):
Speaking with some of the pilots at YTR, they said that the C-17 was basically out of the running because they could not drop freight out the back during flight.

Where did they get that idea? The C-17 can certainly do airdrops, both high and low level drops. If anything, it's because of the price. Here's a picture of the C-17 doing an airdrop:

 
L-188
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:27 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
believe most of the C-141Bs have already been scrapped. How 'bout a couple of good "low milage" C-5As?

A lease of 4 or 6 of those C-5's by Canada would probably be the cheapest and most expedient option for expanding Canada's airlift capablity.

However a C-5 isn't a replacement for the C-130 and the only thing that can replace a C-130 is another 130.
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LY744
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:35 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
A lease of 4 or 6 of those C-5's by Canada would probably be the cheapest and most expedient option for expanding Canada's airlift capablity.

Yeah right. Do you honestly think we can afford that kind of maintenance nightmare on our budget? Leasing civilian An-124s is infinitely cheaper.

There is nothing the RCAF would actually dare to do with its own C-5 that a civilian -124 couldn't do.


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L-188
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting LY744 (Reply 12):
Leasing civilian An-124s is infinitely cheaper.

Maybe, but less efficent.

Your military would not have the aircraft available on a ready basis, and would have to rely on previous charters booked for the Antonov.
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columba
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:00 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Maybe, but less efficent.

Your military would not have the aircraft available on a ready basis, and would have to rely on previous charters booked for the Antonov.

Nato decided to lease some An 124 instead of buying C-17 because it is cheaper. They made an agreement that the plane is available any time they need it. Since Canada is a Nato member they can use these pool of aircraft so they don´t have the need for C5 Galaxies.
I think they will go with the C130J but I hope that they will order the A400M.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
L-188
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:11 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
They made an agreement that the plane is available any time they need it. Since Canada is a Nato member they can use these pool of aircraft so they don´t have the need for C5 Galaxies.

I am just flashing back a few years ago when Canada was bring it's armor back from the Balkans. They hired a ship through a broker to move all those tanks (1/10 of all the armor in the canadian forces). Anyway the broker allegedly didn't pay the ships crew so they stayed out at sea and refused to bring the ship into port in Canada. In the end the Canadian Navy had to send a couple destroyers after the ship and land a boarding party on her to get their tanks back.

I could see see how a similar situation could occur with airlift, if a military force doesn't own it's own airlift capablity.
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LY744
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:33 am

Bottom line: even in our wildest dreams Canada would still not get any C-5's. Did I mention the maintenance nightmare?

P.S. As things stand right now, the biggest piece of armor in the Canadian Forces inventory will soon be the LAVs. Unless you count the M109s.

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kc135topboom
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
I think they will go with the C130J but I hope that they will order the A400M.

The C-130J would be faster/easier/cheaper to buy. But, Canada often thinks of itself as part of the EU, instead of being located in North America. So, even giving a choice, they will buy the A-400M. Even if they have to wait for production slots behind Germany, UK, France, Spain, and Italy.
 
columba
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
The C-130J would be faster/easier/cheaper to buy. But, Canada often thinks of itself as part of the EU, instead of being located in North America. So, even giving a choice, they will buy the A-400M. Even if they have to wait for production slots behind Germany, UK, France, Spain, and Italy.

Regarding its defence policy Canada mostly buys its equipment from the USofA.
Especially the airforce has a long history of buying either homemade or US made products.
I don´t see the Canadian Air Force buying the A400M because it is an European product. If they go for the A400M then because of its size. It is bigger then the C130J and offers a greater flexibility. But therefore the C130J has the advantage -as you already said-of being cheaper and available in a shorter time.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
I don´t see the Canadian Air Force buying the A400M because it is an European product.

Irrelevant. The biggest strike against the A400 is it's timeline. The Air Force would prefer a larger aircraft, but the availability of the Herc fleet has suffered in the last two years. They could always lease something until the A400 is ready, but I don't think they will.
By the way, much of the Army's fleet is of European origin (Leopard tank, Steyr-based heavy truck, Iveco-based light truck, Iltis jeep & Mercedes G-Wagon), plus Fabrique Nationale light & medium machine guns & Aerospatiale anti-tank missiles.

Quoting LY744 (Reply 16):
the biggest piece of armor in the Canadian Forces inventory will soon be the LAVs.

Don't remind me. I feel like I'm going to be sick everytime I think about it. yuck 
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L-188
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 19):
Don't remind me. I feel like I'm going to be sick everytime I think about it.

Wnat to fix that?

Don't vote liberal.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
But, Canada often thinks of itself as part of the EU, instead of being located in North America

Yup. You know in the 1950's they had a "Buy British" policy. Which is why they turned down American aircraft such as the Avenger in favor of Seafires.
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md90fan
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):
Germany, UK, France, Spain, and Italy.

And South Africa too  wink 
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RayChuang
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:05 pm

I think the Canadian Armed Forces will get the C-130J for an obvious reason: they could get their planes brand new within 18 months. Meanwhile, who knows when will Airbus start A400M deliveries....
 
BAe146
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:13 pm

I think a RCAF C-17 would very good! I painted one about a month ago for FS9

http://www.joepouliot.todapoint.com/images/c17rcaf.JPG

[Edited 2005-12-01 14:14:28]
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Don't vote liberal.

Haven't yet. It wouldn't surprise me if we got stuck with them again though.

Quoting BAe146 (Reply 23):

Neato!

Here's another alternative I found on the SPAR website: "Herc 2020", a refit for E & H model Hercs at about half the cost of new. Meant to add 15-20 years of service. The program includes modification of the center & outer wing sections.
http://www.spar.ca
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socal
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:56 am

Wow where can I get that repaint at BAe146? nice repaint.
And Canada should buy C-17A's and C-130J's.  bigthumbsup 
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L-188
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:17 pm

Quoting Socal (Reply 25):
Wow where can I get that repaint at BAe146?

There you go, get Canadair to refit a bunch of those out in the desert with ramp tails
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BAe146
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RE: Canada To Get 16 New Transport Airrcraft

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:53 pm

You might like my Blue Angels C-17 also

Here's my site

http://www.joepouliot.todapoint.com/images/c17blue1.jpg

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