aseem
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IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:01 pm

Target locked: IAF aims for Mirage 4000
The Defence Ministry might be on the lookout for a new Air Superiority Fighter (ASF) aircraft for the Indian Air Force (IAF) but it is not going to be the US F-16. According to a senior official in the ministry, the government has zeroed in on Mirage 4000, manufactured by Dassault Bréguet of France.

Sources said that senior officials from both the Defence Ministry and the IAF had already checked out Mirage 4000 and had expressed satisfaction on its performance and the features provided by the French manufacturer. "A suitable quotation has been received from Dassault Bréguet and since the IAF has already used Mirage 2000, the latest from the Mirage stable is gaining over F-16," sources added.

Hindustan Times

very interesting article...the writing is on the wall
rgds
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HAWK21M
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:12 pm

Guess the Risk of Sanctions will push the deal towards the French.
regds
MEL
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blrsea
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:56 pm

Recently, the govt released new guidelines on defence purchases, which said that any deal more than $70 million should have a 30% offset to Indian industries. I seriously doubt Boeing/Lockheed martin agreeing to this. Only Russia and France are willing to work under this clause. And then, there is always the threat of US sanctions. No sane airforce wants to have a significant percent of their fleet grounded for non-availablity of parts due to sanctions. The last time US imposed sanctions on India, most of the SeaKing helicopters were grounded as their parts weren't available.
 
jwenting
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:40 pm

Interesting, especially since the Mirage 4000 project was cancelled some 25 years ago.
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Pyrex
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:24 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
Interesting, especially since the Mirage 4000 project was cancelled some 25 years ago.

Funny, isn't it?

I am assuming they are reffering to the Mirage 2000 (though I would love to see an IAF Rafale order) but which version? The 2000-5 or the 2000-9? Will it be for air defense or multi-role?
Great news for Dassault (my favorite aircraft company), specially if Brazil also orders the Mirage 2000. There is life in the old workhorse after all.

Saab is reportedly selling AEW aircraft to Pakistan so I guess that puts the Gripen out of the competition?
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keesje
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:19 pm

Would be interesting, setting up a Mirage 4000 line in India, something like Airbus could do with the A320 in China. Those countries want technology transfer iso just spending in the west..

A serious avionics upgrade (Rafale phased array radar etc) would be neccesary..

http://ttjstk.myrice.com/fgwq/mirage4000-2.jpg.jpg
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atmx2000
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:40 pm

Since when was an F-16 an air superiority fighter? What exactly was IAF looking for?
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keesje
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:59 pm


The Defence Ministry might be on the lookout for a new Air Superiority Fighter (ASF) aircraft for the Indian Air Force (IAF)

The IAF plans to buy an aircraft which Pakistan and other neighbor's have not used"

the IAF has already used Mirage 2000

Although India is satisfied with its arsenal of MiG-29 and Sukhoi-30, it wants an alternative to Russia-developed aircraft..

Although the purchase of aircraft has been in the pipeline, since January this year, the IAF was reported to have shifted its preference towards a twin-engine aircraft.

This effectively ruled out the Mirage 2000H, the F-16 and the Grippen, and brought the French Rafale, The RSK MiG's MiG-29 and the Eurofighter Typhoon into the picture.

In July 2005, Boeing had also offered its F/A-18E/F “Super Hornet” for the IAF's consideration. Boeing said it was in talks with the IAF and the Navy and was also offering the co-production of the Super Hornet in India, subject to the US government’s approval.

In August 2005, Russia offered its MiG-35 for the IAF's consideration as well.

http://www.business-standard.com/com...lselect=1&chklogin=N&autono=206271


So if we take above's consideration seriously:

- Air Superiority Fighter ( ~ Mirage 2000, F16, Gripen out)
- not in service in Pakistan or China (F16s, Sukhoi's out)
- no further dependency on Sukhoi (SU MKI's out)
- 2 engined (F16, Mirage 2000, Gripen out)
- possible lisence production (Eurofighter, Rafale out)

Options could be :

- Mig35,
- F/A18,
- Mirage4000 (!)

If we take US Pakistan / China relations, weapon embargo and dependency on Russia's manufacturers into account ..

Nah..
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jwenting
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:50 pm

would be interesting to see that project revived, but I don't really see it happen.
They'd have to fit it with a whole new generation avionics and engines first, essentially amounting to building a new aircraft on an airframe that was never proven beyond technology demonstrator stage).

Twin requirement sounds logical though, especially if the reports I keep hearing about a large number of engine related accidents in the IAF are accurate.
The larger platform size would also mean a larger weapons load, thus enabling longer patrol missions, no luxury in a country the size of India with long borders.

Avionics and engine commonality with their existing Mirages would be a real boon, maybe in combination with weapons commonality with the Sukhois?
Both would of course need development.
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Pyrex
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:35 pm

Keesje,

Looking at your list of requirements it would seem the contest was made to order to suit the Rafale (I don't think Dassault or the French government will mind license-production in exchange for a customer for the Rafale other than the French Armed Forces).

Besides, the Mirage 2000C is an air-superiority fighter. It isn't particularly good at it, but it is one nevertheless.

Is the Mig-35 a modernised version of the Mig-29?
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HAWK21M
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RE: IAF Zeroing On Mirage 2000

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:32 am

Good chioce.What were the Russian options.
regds
MEL
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