klmcedric
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Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:35 pm

 
dc1030guy
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:41 pm

Believable, and cool, but just really stupid!

I want to know why the one pilot's helmet is blacked out. Perhaps they are trying to hide their identity and not get busted?

-Pat
 
Pyrex
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:43 pm

I'm surprised they would do it in a Mirage. Delta wings aren't famous for their low-level flight qualities.

Then again, it was over water. Not exactly terrain-following...

Great video, though. Seems they were having fun.
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usnseallt82
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting Dc1030guy (Reply 1):
Believable, and cool, but just really stupid!

You're kidding, right? This probably wasn't just some pilots screwing around. Tactical training often requires low-level practice to simulate avoiding enemy radar. Its also very common to fly low and fast over beaches because the waves produce thermals that disrupt other detection devices.

This wasn't stupid at all. And the blacked out part of the helmet was probably because these guys are still active duty. You wouldn't want the identities of active duty fighter pilots to be released like that.
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MissedApproach
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:54 am

Biggest risk here is from bird strike, & that's no worse at 20 feet than it is at 200 feet. The low level roll at the end is a bit riskier though.
Every air force sets their own regulations for low level training flights.
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JeffSFO
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:14 am

Here's some more info on it:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/39338/6/

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 3):
And the blacked out part of the helmet was probably because these guys are still active duty. You wouldn't want the identities of active duty fighter pilots to be released like that.

I've seen names of active duty pilots on the newscasts before. Could his helmet have been blacked out because the filming was unauthorized, i.e., they were having a bit of fun by getting it on home video? Also, they appear to be French military aircraft so I guess may depends on what regulations exist there.
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting JeffSFO (Reply 5):
I've seen names of active duty pilots on the newscasts before.

I was about to respond to this in my previous post, because I had a feeling you would ask it.

It just depends. The names you see in the media reports or on television shows are usually ones that have been authorized for release. This could have been an official video and those names may not have been authorized for release.

Also, its not uncommon for squadrons to put together inspirational videos for other pilots and to recruit pilots in training for their specific airframe. This could have been an authorized video to make for the squadron, but not for release outside of the military. This would explain the blacked out helmets.

However, while there's always the chance that they were screwing around, the video quality seems like it was done for a reason. Plus, this happens quite a bit, so it really wouldn't be considered screwing around since these low-level training flights a part of training routines.
Crye me a river
 
keesje
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:32 am

French Mirage 2000´s, Mirage F1´s and Sepecat Jaguars?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Pyrex
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:31 pm

Mirage 2000s and Jaguars definitevely. I missed out on the Mirage F1s but I'll take your word for it.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
JeffSFO
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 6):
It just depends. The names you see in the media reports or on television shows are usually ones that have been authorized for release. This could have been an official video and those names may not have been authorized for release.

Also, its not uncommon for squadrons to put together inspirational videos for other pilots and to recruit pilots in training for their specific airframe. This could have been an authorized video to make for the squadron, but not for release outside of the military. This would explain the blacked out helmets.

However, while there's always the chance that they were screwing around, the video quality seems like it was done for a reason. Plus, this happens quite a bit, so it really wouldn't be considered screwing around since these low-level training flights a part of training routines.

Thanks for the info on that. After September 11, 2001, I noticed on the TV news that the surnames of military pilots involved with Operation Enduring Freedom were censored for security purposes. However, not so long afterwards it seems that that precaution was dropped, even during Operation Iraqi Freedom. The reason why I remember this at all is that I was surprised to see that the pilot surnames got authorized for release, even during combat operations.

Quoting JeffSFO (Reply 5):
Also, they appear to be French military aircraft so I guess may depends on what regulations exist there.

Bad typo here. What I meant to say was, "Also, they appear to be French military aircraft so I guess it depends on what regulations exist there."

-Jeff
 
jwenting
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting JeffSFO (Reply 5):
I've seen names of active duty pilots on the newscasts before. Could his helmet have been blacked out because the filming was unauthorized, i.e., they were having a bit of fun by getting it on home video? Also, they appear to be French military aircraft so I guess may depends on what regulations exist there.

Those helmets have some serious anti-glare protection so they're almost opaque from the outside.
Nothing weird about that.

And not all airforces allow pilots to personalise their helmets or aircraft, apparently the French don't.

These appear to be professionally made videos rather than someone's home video.
I think I recognise several scenes from aviation videos I have, it appears likely the person putting this clip together took scenes from several sources (videos, DVDs, maybe airforce websites) and put them together.

As to the low flying, the Mirage 2000 cured most of the problems plaguing the Mirage III and V.
A lot of the scenes in this video of course show Jaguars which are designed as low level penetration bombers, and Mirage F1 aircraft which have pretty good handling characteristics as well.
I think I even saw a few Italian AMXs, which would never appear in a French airforce production (just like the English titles wouldn't likely appear).
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bsergonomics
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:06 am

Re: the helmets.

They are not 'blacked out' for any security reasons. A military helmet has two visors: one tinted and one clear. The clear visor is on the inside. You should always fly with the clear visor down, to protect you in case of a bird strike on the canopy, loss of the canopy, the need to eject suddenly or any other reason for loss of canopy integrity. The outer visor is tinted, for when you are flying in sunny conditions. The level of tinting varies between nations but it is usually quite dark.

As for the low flying... It's possibly the best bit about being a military pilot. It is a standard technique to avoid radar and to minimise the risk from ground fire. There are very few places where you can practise flying 'on the deck' over land (in the UK, the minimum altitude for military flights is 250 feet AGL), so the only place where you can reasonably practise very low flying is over the sea (even then, there are strict rules and ranges). Great video, which makes one feel... jealous!
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usnseallt82
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:01 pm

Quoting Bsergonomics (Reply 11):
They are not 'blacked out' for any security reasons. A military helmet has two visors: one tinted and one clear.

Actually, no. And this isn't what we're talking about.  redflag 

Some standard issue helmets can have both visors put in, but most have an interchangable feature where you have to replace them whenever you know what type of flight you'll be making.

However, this isn't what we're talking about. I thought the same thing at first and was about to respond about the glareshield, but I re-played it and noticed that there is a brief black rectangle that is over the top of the helmet. Look at the video again and you will see. This has nothing to do with the visor.
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bully707
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:27 pm

Amazing shots.....!!!!!!!

Never the less.....we would've cought them with our radar.  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink

Simply amazing scenes....I am still in awe!!!!!!!  eyepopping   eyepopping 


Thanks for sharing that video with us.....



Godspeed

Bernd
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
keesje
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:09 am

This video & dozens of others can be downloaded form aviapedia.com

More Mirage 2000s (e.g. formation with an A346):
http://www.aviapedia.com/videos/figh...e/Mirage2000C_its_my_life_full.avi

This Swiss one is also nice:
http://www.aviapedia.com/videos/aero...rForces/SwissAF-Push_the_Limit.avi
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
bsergonomics
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:51 pm

Usnseallt82: Yes. OK, you got me. That's what comes from watching videos late at night... However, the RAF (and, I'm told, also the USAF and USN fast jet pilots - correct me if I'm wrong) use the two visor system.

====

I replayed the video on slow motion and the black rectangle seems to cover only what appears to be a 'spy camera' mounted on top of the helmet. As far as personnel security is concerned, this would seem to be of little importance. As far as national security, on the other hand, it comes either under the 'Official Secrets' title (at worst) or under the 'Need To Know' principle (at best). It could have come from a test & evaluation squadron, or it could be that the camera was mounted by the pilot (breaking strict regulations in the process). I would have said that it was probably the latter, in that it is visible for about half a second before the rectangle appears, showing an 'amateurish' approach to both video production and security. That said, after the Pentagon's efforts at censoring the report on the italian secret service agent killed in Iraq, anything's possible...
The definition of a 'Pessimist': an Optimist with experience...
 
777
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:07 pm

Hey guys,

look at this "Episode II" from French AF... words as "crazy" or "dangerous" are not enough to describe their performance...

Anyway it's cool to see those movies...
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:52 am

AFIAK, German Luftwaffe Tornado pilots fly down to 100 ft AGL over land during training in Canada (Goose Bay). But this is what the Tornado has been designed for, to fly really low under Soviet air defense radar.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
LY744
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):
AFIAK, German Luftwaffe Tornado pilots fly down to 100 ft AGL over land during training in Canada (Goose Bay). But this is what the Tornado has been designed for, to fly really low under Soviet air defense radar.

Yup, I have a great 20 minute video of that, but I don't remember where I downloaded it from...


LY744.
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Areopagus
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:02 pm

As I recall, Chuck Yeager wrote in his biography that he flew low over the dry lakes and found that ground effect prevented the aircraft from contacting the ground -- that he could give it considerable forward stick and it wouldn't drop that last bit. So maybe it's not quite as dangerous as it looks.
 
skysurfer
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:57 am

Nice to see the jag's down at low level doing what they're good at......in 1995 i was in France at Le St. Michael (spelt right?) and i watched a Jag 4 ship approach at low level and then pull up over and around the 'castle'...they did this 4 times and i'll admit, i was impressed.

Cheers+

ps, anyone remember the RAF jags in the Gulf with a sidewinder above each wing?  Smile What a sight
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
GRZ-AIR
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:22 am

This is the best fighter jet related video I have ever seen...

http://hagar.up.ac.za/christo/fous.avi
When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
 
JeffSFO
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RE: Seiously Low Flying:how Crazy Can You Be?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:56 am

Here's a short video that I haven't seen before of a very low flyby:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/SuperSonicFly_by.wmv

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