exarmywarrant
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Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:58 am

I was going through an issue of Machine Design from July and ran across this:

"The days when steel-nerved pilots showed their mettle by touching down on aircraft carriers may be coming to an end. GPS technology now lets jets land themselves. The new landing system was recently tested for the first time, at sea, in the Harrier jump-jet, a short-takeoff vertical-landing (STOVL) aircraft. The technology, being studied by the US Joint Strike Fighter program, reduces pilot workload at the end of a mission when pilot fatigue could affect critical landings. Besides reducing risk, the automated landings will let pilots fly day or night missions in weather that would previously have made such landings impossible. The ship trial aboard HMS Invincible was the world's first fully automated STOVL shipboard recovery and landing, according to QinetiQ, the British technology company that developed the system."

I don't know what takes bigger stones...landing with it or without it...
 
MissedApproach
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:28 am

The F-18E & F use an Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS). The newest carriers have also reduced the number of arrestor cables from the normal 4 to 3. I'm sure there are more bolters, but they thought it was a better use of space to pack Jet A in there instead. It would probably be less work to babysit the automated system than land it hands on. Stress levels may be another matter...
Can you hear me now?
 
AAR90
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:44 am

ICLS (ILS onboard CV's) has been in use by USN for decades.
ACLS (radar/datalink system) has been in use by USN even longer.
The article is a bit misleading in that the topic is actually specific to STOVL acft operations.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
Pyrex
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Thread starter):
according to QinetiQ, the British technology company that developed the system.

So once again the Americans are using British technology (like the RR LiftFan) for the JSF but expect to give nothing in return, in terms of technology transfer... No wonder there are topics in this forum about how pissed of the Brits are.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:33 am

Like the article says, it's dealing with STOVL a/c ops, and not fast, fixed wing ops from a full flattop. ACLS/ICLS, from what I've seen, can be a Godsend sometimes. I doubt you'll see a fully automated, hands off approach that brings you from the 3/4 mile to actual touchdown and arrested landing, completely hands free- alot of variables to deal with, especially on a bad night. Just my .02.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
exarmywarrant
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 3):
So once again the Americans are using British technology (like the RR LiftFan) for the JSF but expect to give nothing in return, in terms of technology transfer... No wonder there are topics in this forum about how pissed of the Brits are.

It's not like we're stealing the technology...they don't have to sell it to us if they don't want to...

I can see frustration if they want something and are not getting it, but pissed implies they have a right to it, which they do not.

By the way, this affects Portugal how, again?
 
474218
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 3):
So once again the Americans are using British technology (like the RR LiftFan) for the JSF but expect to give nothing in return, in terms of technology transfer... No wonder there are topics in this forum about how pissed of the Brits are.

The F-35's LiftFan is a Lockheed Martin patented design, which was developed and produced by Rolls Royce at their facility in Indianapolis, Indiana USA.
 
Stratofortress
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:35 am

F-18s have had the capability to land themselves for a long time. The article is certainly misleading, and the comment by Pyrex about transfer of technology is ill founded.

No country has to sell their technology to the US if they dont want to. Now, everybody wants a piece of the US defense budget, and in order to get it non-US companies have to offer state of the art technologies. US does export because A) we dont like exporting the best stuff, and B) the budget at home is huge and US defense companies can make a healthy profit without exports (so there is no political pressure)

Free market at its best - he with most money controlls the game.
Forever New Frontiers
 
Pyrex
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:14 pm

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 5):
It's not like we're stealing the technology...they don't have to sell it to us if they don't want to...

I know you are not stealing, and I didn't say you were... My point is, with the experience the British have in the Harrier, the U.S. needs UK technology for the (V/STOL) JSF much more than the UK needs U.S. technology for a new tactical fighter (provided stealth is not required). They might need the huge developmental budgets, sure, but not any particular technology present in the JSF (stealth is overrated). The least the U.S. could do is reciprocate a little.
I agree that a lot of the countries involved in the JSF do not contribute with anything really new for the JSF (they just throw money in return for a little workshare) but that is definitely not the case with the British.

Anyway, this is definitively off-topic, as the technology they mention isn't exactly cutting edge (similar stuff has been operational for years).

Quoting Exarmywarrant (Reply 5):
By the way, this affects Portugal how, again?

What does that have to do with anything? There are topics on MilAv right now about European militaries with a lot of welcomed contribution from Americans. This is an international forum, after all.

Quoting Stratofortress (Reply 7):
F-18s have had the capability to land themselves for a long time. The article is certainly misleading, and the comment by Pyrex about transfer of technology is ill founded.

I agree that this technology isn't something revolutionary. I just found it interesting that it was QinetiQ doing the work and it reminded me of the recent threads about the possibility of the British pulling out of the JSF for the reasons I mentioned.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
I know you are not stealing, and I didn't say you were... My point is, with the experience the British have in the Harrier, the U.S. needs UK technology for the (V/STOL) JSF much more than the UK needs U.S. technology for a new tactical fighter (provided stealth is not required). They might need the huge developmental budgets, sure, but not any particular technology present in the JSF (stealth is overrated). The least the U.S. could do is reciprocate a little.

If anything, the liftfan concept owes more to the Soviets (Forger) than the Brits.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
My point is, with the experience the British have in the Harrier, the U.S. needs UK technology for the (V/STOL)

Which the US legitimately gained when McDonnell Douglas bought a license to produce Harriers in the States.
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474218
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:18 am

The Boeing F-32 JSF design used the Harrier lift system and lost the JSF competition to the Lockheed Martin F-35. Lockheed Martin's Lift Fan system was designed in the United States and built in the United States.
 
AAR90
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RE: Carrier Landings On Autopilot

Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:40 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 4):
ACLS/ICLS, from what I've seen, can be a Godsend sometimes. I doubt you'll see a fully automated, hands off approach that brings you from the 3/4 mile to actual touchdown and arrested landing, completely hands free- alot of variables to deal with, especially on a bad night. Just my .02.

Not sure what you're saying here DeltaGuy. Mode-1 ACLS & ICLS has been in use for decades. Most Naval Aviators don't _want_ to use is... but it has been available and all CV's must recertify its capabilities regularly... as do the planes & aviators.
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