747400sp
Topic Author
Posts: 3833
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:21 am

Why the USAF did not rengine the Lockheed C-141 with CFM 56-2 two replace there P&W TF 33. They could have kept them longer.
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:03 am

The problem with the 141 wasn't it's engines, although those TF-33s were pieces of $hit compared to newer models. The prob was the life span left in the 141. They were originally designed for 15K hours IIRC. They ended up going to around 40-45K. The low levels trashed them, and the gulf war was the coffin cover.

They didn't re-engine them because there's no point to spending a billion or two for a new engine on an airplane you're about to retire
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Duce50boom (Reply 1):
The prob was the life span left in the 141. They were originally designed for 15K hours IIRC. They ended up going to around 40-45K.

They also had the same cross section as the C-130, which limited some of the loads they could carry.

The aircraft was originally designed to replaced the Air Forces C-133 which was the air forces Minuteman missle carrier. The aircraft was designed to haul that payload, and it turned out that the aircraft had a lot of spare lifiting capacity when hauling more normal payloads....That is why in the early 1980s they went ahead and lengthened all off them to the B configuration.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:49 am

Remember, the 141's have been around since before 'Nam, and have been worked like dogs since...unlike the B-52, you unfortunately couldn't stretch the airframe for much longer...new coats of paint only go so far  Wink

Anyone know when the final flight of the Starlifter will be?

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Galaxy5007
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:06 pm

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 3):
Anyone know when the final flight of the Starlifter will be?

66-0177 will fly its final flight on 6 May 2006.

Go here for the starlifter farewell site: http://www.starlifterfarewell.com/

And yes, they were not re-engined due to the fact the plane had no airframe life left. The reason why they are re-engining the C-5 is because it has 80 to 90 % of airframe life left in it. Just like the 135s, they had enough airframe life to be cost effective enough to go ahead and modernize the planes.
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting Galaxy5007 (Reply 4):
The reason why they are re-engining the C-5 is because it has 80 to 90 % of airframe life left in it.

You mean you don't count airframe hours when they're up on jacks?!

It's sad to see the starlifters go, but on the bright side, 10 of their engines are going to NASA for improvement to their WB-57 fleet.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 5):
10 of their engines are going to NASA for improvement to their WB-57 fleet.

Now that's an amazing thing, seeing those babies still flying.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
ghostbase
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 3):
Remember, the 141's have been around since before 'Nam, and have been worked like dogs since...unlike the B-52, you unfortunately couldn't stretch the airframe for much longer...new coats of paint only go so far

LOL! Beautifully phrased  Wink

Will be a sad day when the last Starlifter goes to pasture. I just fell in love with the old C-141A model when I saw one at Mildenhall many many years ago, and I just love the sound of those old turbofans winding up and echoing for miles around.

 ghost 
"I chase my dreams but I never seem to arrive"
 
Gunships
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:10 am

I spent over twenty years in the USAF, most of that time as a C-141 crew chief. The earlier posts are exactly right concerning the airframe. Just not cost effective to put new motors on. Though it would be nice to still see them flying...

Don't know if any of you have had the chance to see it, but the last C-141 (177) brought home some of (if not the) first POW's from Vietnam. The aircraft is known as the "Hanoi Taxi". The sides of the cargo box have pictures of "Operation Homecoming" and there are signatures from some of the POW's on the panel that covers the troop LOX heat exchanger, just above the troop LOX quantity indicators. They have placed a plexiglass-type cover over the signatures to help preserve them.
There are also pictures of POW's being flown home from the Gulf war on it also.

If you ever get the chance to see this aircraft, don't miss it. I believe it will go on permanent display at the Air Force museum. The guys and girls from Wright-Patterson have done an amazing job with this aircraft.
 
Duce50Boom
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:35 pm

Gunships, the 141 you're referring to came to KSUU for our airshow in october. Very humbling to see that plane up close, inside out. A whole lot of history about it, and the loads were cool as cucumbers with showing me around (technically off limits cause of power/cargo door stuff). All in all, an amazing part of history I finally got to catch. Only regret was I didn't bring my camera.
 
Gunships
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Why The Usaf Did Not Rengine The C-141 Starlifter

Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:41 am

KSUU was where I saw it also, just before I retired.

I agree the crew was awesome, they kept pointing things out to me and answered all my questions.

It was the last C-141 I've set foot on, and being an ex-141 Crew Chief, it's kind of a special memory.

It had flown to KSUU from Wright-Pat. and spent the night before continuing on to Hickam. I just got lucky and happened to be working at the time the crew showed to get ready to go.

Quoting Duce50boom (Reply 9):
Only regret was I didn't bring my camera.

Wish I would have had mine with me too, but I didn't find out about it until after I started my shift...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests