Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:45 am

More evidence of belt tightening. F-22, F-35, UAV's are the new tip of the spear.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
WarthogLover
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:59 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:38 am

Just because it's going to the boneyard doesn't mean it's going to be scrapped. They'll probably keep it in Level 2 (Is that the right one?) storage.
Guns don't shoot people; Dick Cheney does!
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:20 pm

Guys....relax a little here. They are pushing the planned retirement date of this 30 year old (yeah, some are less than that, I would place the average age of the airplanes at around 23 years) airplane up by 3 years so they can put a few more F-22s out.

It's a worthwhile trade, if you consider the fact that the F-117 was due for retirement in 2011 anyway.

[Edited 2006-02-17 06:22:14]
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:47 pm

And it's not like the whole fleet will be just left to sit in the Boneyard. At least Write Patterson AFB and The Smithsonian will each get one, and likely Nellis, Tonapa , and Edwards AFB. But that still leaves over 40.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:03 am

Pretty poorly written article IMHO...

"The aircraft was made with off-the-shelf parts: the landing gear from an F-15, the engines are from F-18s, and the controls F-16 and on and on. Some of those parts might not even be manufactured now because some of those aircraft have been retired from the fleet," Fuller said.

Riiiiiight.

Watch the AF regret this decision next time we need a surgical strike done overnight. They regretted moving some of those B-1's to AMARC, I think this is a similar mistake.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
Pretty poorly written article IMHO...

"The aircraft was made with off-the-shelf parts: the landing gear from an F-15, the engines are from F-18s, and the controls F-16 and on and on. Some of those parts might not even be manufactured now because some of those aircraft have been retired from the fleet," Fuller said.

Riiiiiight.

Howso? Thats all correct:

Quote:

Some of the components modified for the F-117 include its quadruple- redundant flight-control system (based on the one in the General Dynamics F-16) and cockpit environmental control system (a portion of the ECS in a Lockheed C-130). The F-117's two General Electric F404-GE-FID2 engines are nonafterburning derivatives of the powerplant in the Navy's McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 fighter/attack aircraft.

From Airforce Association Magazine.


How many of those parts are produced today verses newer versions for newer models of the above aircraft? The F-117 is being retired for the same reasons the Concorde was - low numbers make spare parts manufacturing uneconomical.

Since the F-22 can carry out the same roll, the F-117 is hardly needed anymore.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 6):
Howso? Thats all correct:

Some, but the way they were making it sound was that a huge majority of the aircraft were already retired- not true. There's only a handful of Hornets in storage, a number of F-15's and F-16's, but not near what's in the current inventory. I don't doubt that the parts shortage is there though, parts in general are hard to come by sometimes.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
LeanOfPeak
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:18 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:14 am

Some of those aircraft ARE no longer in production.

..."The engines of the F-18..."
F/A-18C/D production ended in 1999.
C/D engines: F404-GE-402
E/F engines: F414-GE-400

I would also expect substantial changes in the ECS for the C-130J.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 6):
Since the F-22 can carry out the same roll, the F-117 is hardly needed anymore.

The problem is that there isn't anywhere near a 1-to-1 replacement. Latest numbers are that for about every 12 to 13 F-117s retired, the USAF will order ONE more F-22.

Now, looking at it the other way around, you're planning a series strike missions... would you rather have 12 F-117s or 1 F-22?
 
IADBGO
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:19 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:29 am

Quote:
Watch the AF regret this decision next time we need a surgical strike done overnight.

I wouldn't count on them regreting their decision in the future. Moving the retirement date of the F-117 up was part of the QDR. Also in the QDR are recommendations for improved global strike capabilities. Those will include using ICBMs with conventional warheads and SLBMs with conventional warheads. It also moved up the IOC of a new long range bomber to 2018 IIRC. These three systems, along with improvement in UAVs is meant to compenstate for the loss of the F-117s. Is it a perfect solution? Maybe, time will tell. But I wouldn't count on the retirement mattering much if the USAF and USn actually are able to convert those missiles to conventional strike.

Another consideration will be Congress. It will probably be very difficult to convince Congress to retire these birds early. Look for them to be retired over a long time period...5-10 years or more. DoD recomendations are one thing...Congressional action is something else

my 2 cents

IADBGO
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:52 am

I suspect there is a replacement in the wings. The F-111 was retired with no real replacement. A medium range, medium weight (and medium cost) bomber would be a good fit in today's service. There has been evidence of an effort to develope just such a place based on the YF-23. The ability to deliver a medium sized load of precision munitions is something the airforce doesn't have with the exception of the F-15E, which isn't very stealthy.

http://members.cox.net/joerg2/FB-23.jpg

Respectfully,

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
IADBGO
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:19 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:13 am

Quote:
I suspect there is a replacement in the wings. The F-111 was retired with no real replacement.

There is no replacement in the wings so to speak. There is one the new long range strike aircraft that will be coming online late next decade, but that is about it for now. USAF is going to get along just fine until then with its B-1s B-2s, B-52s and F-117s. As they transition the F-117s and B-52s out over the next decade the B-2s and B-1s will have to step in until the conventional missiles (ICBMs and SLBMs) and the new strike aircraft come on line. The requirements for the new long range strike aircraft have not even be finalized yet, so we won't be seeing a new aircraft anytime soon.

IADBGO
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 4):
At least Write Patterson AFB and The Smithsonian will each get one, and likely Nellis, Tonapa , and Edwards AFB.

I don't know about the others but there is already one sitting in the AF museum at Wright Patterson.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 9):
The problem is that there isn't anywhere near a 1-to-1 replacement. Latest numbers are that for about every 12 to 13 F-117s retired, the USAF will order ONE more F-22.

Now, looking at it the other way around, you're planning a series strike missions... would you rather have 12 F-117s or 1 F-22?

This may be true, but the F-22 is being purchase in overall greater numbers than the F-117 ever was. You dont need to replace them 1:1 because theres already a greater purchasing run going on, so when the numbers come out, the F-22 to F-117 ratio will be more like 4:1 purchased.

So what would you rather have, 45 aircraft with a single role, or 200 aircraft that can also carry out that role and many others?

[Edited 2006-02-20 15:55:32]
 
IADBGO
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:19 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:41 am

The F-22 is not meant to be a direct replacement for the F-117. While the F-22 has become a multi-mission aircraft the USAF will not be using the F-22 exclusivly to replace the F-117. The F-117s role is being absorbed by other assets. B-1s, B-2s B-52s equiped with ALCMs and new conventional strike ICBMs and SLBMs.

IADBGO
 
AFHokie
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 3:29 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 10):
Those will include using ICBMs with conventional warheads and SLBMs with conventional warheads.

You will not see conventionally armed ICBMs or SLBMs. The reason being that any observed launch of one is automatically assumed to be nuclear and nobody is going to wait for the first impact before launching their own. strategic missiles will always be associated with WMD.
 
IADBGO
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:19 am

RE: F-117 Stealth Fighter Headed For The Boneyard

Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Quote:
You will not see conventionally armed ICBMs or SLBMs. The reason being that any observed launch of one is automatically assumed to be nuclear and nobody is going to wait for the first impact before launching their own. strategic missiles will always be associated with WMD.

Who is going to 'see' the launch? The only nation that has the capability to see a launch on radar is the Russians. The Chinese don't have the capability, a terrorist group doesn't have radar, Iran doesn't have the right type of radar....Russia is the only nation that can 'see' an ICBM/SLBM launch. When they do see a launch their radar tells them within a minute where it is going.

Is this a potential issue? Sure...is it an insurmountable one? Not at all.

IADBGO

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSPcody and 12 guests