747400sp
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 8:33 am

I was reading in a book that stated that the USAF was looking at the F-14 Tomcat to replaces the Convair F-106 interceptor. Why did they not buy the Tomcat. The F-14 could have work well together with th F-15 and F-16 and seeing that the USAF kept some of there F-106 shows they had different jobs so why not replace the F-106 with a different aircraft like the Tomcat?
 
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ptrjong
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 9:09 am

The F-14 is a good fighter, but it was incredibly expensive, even compared to the F-15. Taking that into account, the F-14 is much overrated.  stirthepot 

Another answer is that the Navy and Air Force were simply not going to buy each other's aircraft, with just one major exception: the F-4.

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
seeing that the USAF kept some of there F-106 shows they had different jobs

I'm sure the USAF would have loved to replace every F-106 with an F-15, but you can't always get what you want.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
MigFan
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 10:35 am

The USAF did not want the same aircraft as the USN/USMC. This has nothing to do with inter-service rivalry, but the F-4. The F-4 was provided to the US air forces as acommon service requirement, and to save money. The results showed limitations of the aircraft that was not suitable for all of it's employed roles. At the time of the F-4's replacement, each service was strict in the assertion of their need for a unique type.

USAF: F-15, F-16
USN: F-14, F/A-18
USMC: AV-8A, F/A-18
Army: Sorry...

The USAF did evaluate the F-14, and the USN looked at a version of the F-15 called the "Seagle".

/M
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Thorny
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 1):

Another answer is that the Navy and Air Force were simply not going to buy each other's aircraft, with just one major exception: the F-4.

And A-7.
 
starrion
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 11:13 am

There was also a naval evaluation of the F-16
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AirRyan
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 1):
The F-14 is a good fighter, but it was incredibly expensive, even compared to the F-15. Taking that into account, the F-14 is much overrated.

The F-14 and the F-15 were evaluated by the former Shah of Iran and they of course opted for the F-14 instead. The F-14 is hardly overrated where as in fact, it is perhaps the best plane that never truly was able to live up to the way it's designers intended for it to be. The P&W TF-30's were designed for the F-111 and not the F-14, and this plagued hte F-14 airframe for the majority of its life. By the time funds rolled around for the GE F110's, it's years spent too specialized on the A/A role combined with some highly inept tactics during Desert Storm forced some incredibly myopic if not outright treasonous political repercussions to kill the program.

Quoting Starrion (Reply 4):
There was also a naval evaluation of the F-16

While the USN did order some Navy specific F-16N's, these aircraft were for aggressor training only (not even a gun) and never intended to be carrier capable. The USN beat the crap out of these birds and in just a couple of years had nearly torn the wings off of them before being forced to park them.
 
Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 1:16 pm

Because it was a flying bucket of crap.

Eagle Keepers rule.
 
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ptrjong
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting MigFan (Reply 2):
results showed limitations of the aircraft that was not suitable for all of it's employed roles.

That's news to me. So what was wrong with the F-4 according to the USAF? A joint replacement for the F-4 would have been perfecty feasible. I think it's the F-111 history that played up here.

Quoting Thorny (Reply 3):
And A-7.

Oops, you're right of course.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
The F-14 and the F-15 were evaluated by the former Shah of Iran and they of course opted for the F-14 instead.

Everybody else of course opted for the F-15, including the Isaraelis, who seem to have a pretty good idea of what works. I trust they had a look at the F-14 as well.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
F-14 is hardly overrated where as in fact, it is perhaps the best plane that never truly was able to live up to the way it's designers intended for it to be.

Yep, the F-14's potential was not fully exploited. And the very couse of that was that it was so bloodily expensive. The F-14 has a basic flaw and that is that it is too complex.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
The P&W TF-30's were designed for the F-111 and not the F-14, and this plagued hte F-14 airframe for the majority of its life

Sounds like wrong engine selection by Grumman.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
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kc135topboom
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 6:45 pm

The main reason the USAF did not buy the F-14 was because it carried a crew of 2. The much better fighter and interceptor F-15 has a crew of 1. Don't forget, the F-14 was optumized for the intertceptor role, not the fighter role. So the USAF didn't see the USN jet as a multi-role aircraft, which at the time was true.

The F-14 version the USAF was considering did not include the Phenix missle system, so it was only marginally better than the (then almost 20 year old) F-106A. The F-15 had a much better radar, and the F-14A costs about 15% more than a F-15A. The proposed USAF version (F-14C) was even more expensive.
 
MigFan
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
the USAF didn't see the USN jet as a multi-role aircraft, which at the time was true.

Wasn't the F-15 initially an air defense fighter, i.e. interceptor?

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 7):
So what was wrong with the F-4 according to the USAF?

No internal cannon, that came later. Poor range and smokey engines.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
Because it was a flying bucket of crap.

I don't know if I would go that far. I would sure hate to have an F-14 after me. Soviet pilots were told to just "run from it and not engage" (Belenko, 1986)

/M
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ptrjong
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting MigFan (Reply 9):
No internal cannon, that came later. Poor range and smokey engines.

These F-4 problems were adressed in the F-14 as well as the F-15, so no reason not to build a joint successor.

Quoting MigFan (Reply 9):
Soviet pilots were told to just "run from it and not engage" (Belenko, 1986)

Pilots of what? This naval heap of junk?

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LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Thu May 11, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):



Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
Because it was a flying bucket of crap.

Eagle Keepers rule.

Only someone with limited knowledge of the F-14 would say that.
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Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 11):
Only someone with limited knowledge of the F-14 would say that.

It was an overpriced piece of crap.
 
AirRyan
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 7):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
The P&W TF-30's were designed for the F-111 and not the F-14, and this plagued hte F-14 airframe for the majority of its life

Sounds like wrong engine selection by Grumman.

It was the only engine available since the SECDEF cut the funding that the USN was using in conjunction with the USAF on the F-15's new engine that would later power the F-15's.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
The much better fighter and interceptor F-15 has a crew of 1.

It sure as hell was never a better interceptor with a less powerful radar (compared to both the AWG-9 and the APG-71) and Sparrow missle complement (AMRAAM down the road but the AIM-54 still had a longer range and given the funds the F-14D could very well have carried AMRAAMS , too.) As a fighter, with the GE engines giving it not only the thrust it wanted but most importantly the cure to the compressor stalls that plagued the F-14A's and the TF30 P&W engines, an F-14B/D was every bit a worthy adversary to ANY Eagle.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
The F-15 had a much better radar,

I'm not sure where you get your information but that has just never even been the case on up until the last flight of a USN F-14D.

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 10):
Quoting MigFan (Reply 9):
Soviet pilots were told to just "run from it and not engage" (Belenko, 1986)

Pilots of what? This naval heap of junk?

Oh some Su-22 and MiG-23 pilots for starters. An F-14B/D with a competent crew could hold it's own against anything the Soviets threw up to include Flankers.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 12):
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 11):
Only someone with limited knowledge of the F-14 would say that.

It was an overpriced piece of crap.

Are you talking about the F-22? Their still programming that things computers and it surely fits the criteria for being expensive and thereby arguably "overpriced."
 
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 5:14 am

Mig-25 pilots were briefed about the F-14 when it came out by the Soviet GRU. The GRU grossly exaggerated the account of the F-14's capability, stating it could go Mach 4 at 120,000' ceiling. Why they did this, I still do not know. It is one thing to respect and never under-estimate your opponent, but the direct instillment of fear destroys morale. I guess the GRU was not in the morale business. The Mig-31 was developed as a direct result of the F-14.

Look at the similarities; 2-man crew, large BVR missile system, Mig-31 is faster though. The Russians wanted the Mig-31 to be capable of making a shot off a the SR-71.

/M
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LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 12):
It was an overpriced piece of crap

Do you have any supporting evidence to support your claim. Supporting evicdence besides what you think.

Here's a a bit of trivia for you. When then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheaney is his infinite wisdom cancelled the F-14D program it was on schedule and under budget.
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LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 7):
Sounds like wrong engine selection by Grumman.

I'm not suree where you are getting your information but it's a bit off. First of all the DOD selects what engine is going into an aircraft. The TF-30 was originally selected becasue it was the only engine avaliable in it's class. The original plan was to have the TF-30 until the Navy version of the F100 became avaliable. However back in the early 70's the defense budgets were a bit slim. So as the program costs increased the Navy F100 program fell to the budget cutters axe.
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AirRyan
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 15):
Here's a a bit of trivia for you. When then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheaney is his infinite wisdom cancelled the F-14D program it was on schedule and under budget.

On budget, on time, and not only wanted by the USN but Congressionally APPROVED for the funds. If you remember, the Super Hornet platform was always toted as an upgrade program of which it never turned out to be anything remotely similar to - it was an all new platform that just happened to resemble a legacy Hornet. Because of this, Congress never had a say in the Super Hornet program - that is how Cheney and the Hornet Mafia bypassed not only the best interests of the taxpayers and the entire USN, but they also trumped the entire US Congress. Like it or not, that's just BS.
 
Lumberton
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 5):
The P&W TF-30's were designed for the F-111 and not the F-14, and this plagued hte F-14 airframe for the majority of its life.

The re-engine project was always on the USN's "to do" list throughout the '80s, but it kept getting deferred.

Quoting MigFan (Reply 14):
Why they did this, I still do not know. It is one thing to respect and never under-estimate your opponent, but the direct instillment of fear destroys morale. I guess the GRU was not in the morale business. The Mig-31 was developed as a direct result of the F-14.

I think you answered your own question WRT the MiG-31.

The F-14 was truly optimized for fleet air defense. The USN back then pursued a strategy against Soviet bombers and missles of "defense in depth" the F-14/Phoenix combination was the linchpin of the outer layer. It's ability as a dogfighter, despite being underpowered, was a plus.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 17):
On budget, on time, and not only wanted by the USN but Congressionally APPROVED for the funds. If you remember, the Super Hornet platform was always toted as an upgrade program of which it never turned out to be anything remotely similar to - it was an all new platform that just happened to resemble a legacy Hornet. Because of this, Congress never had a say in the Super Hornet program - that is how Cheney and the Hornet Mafia bypassed not only the best interests of the taxpayers and the entire USN, but they also trumped the entire US Congress. Like it or not, that's just BS.

When I was in the Navy it seemed like Sec of Defense Cheney had it in for Naval Aviation. Not only did he kill the F-14D program but also the A-12 and P-21. Maybe he caught his wife in bed with a Navy fighter pilot.  Wink
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ptrjong
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 16):
I'm not suree where you are getting your information but it's a bit off.

AirRyan seems to indicate the TF30 was never really suitable for the F-14. If so, either Grumman or the DOD made wrong choices. No suitable engine being available is not a valid excuse as far as the DOD is concerned - if you're building a multibilllion fighter you obviously need to plan a suitable engine for it.

But maybe the TF30 was OK on paper but just disappointing in practice.
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LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 20):
AirRyan seems to indicate the TF30 was never really suitable for the F-14. If so, either Grumman or the DOD made wrong choices. No suitable engine being available is not a valid excuse as far as the DOD is concerned - if you're building a multibilllion fighter you obviously need to plan a suitable engine for it.

Trust me, I know from personal experince that the TF-30 was not suitable for the F-14. The point I was trying to get across is that the DOD is to blame for the TF-30 being on the F-14 for so long, not Grumman.
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ptrjong
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 9:01 am

I trust you.
What made the TF30 unsuitable? Kinda bomber engine somehow?
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 22):
I trust you.
What made the TF30 unsuitable? Kinda bomber engine somehow?

Main reason, it's tendancy to stall during hard manuvering. Not a good trait for a fighter. Also the engine did not produce enough thrust for a fighter the size of the F-14.
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ptrjong
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 9:40 am

Thanks.
It seems obvious that the F-14 really should have shifted to the F100 as soon as it was available. If the budget was tight, something else should have been sacrified.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
Boeing Nut
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 15):
Here's a a bit of trivia for you. When then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheaney is his infinite wisdom cancelled the F-14D program it was on schedule and under budget.

Which is probably why it was cancelled.  duck 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
sprout5199
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 18):
The F-14 was truly optimized for fleet air defense. The USN back then pursued a strategy against Soviet bombers and missles of "defense in depth" the F-14/Phoenix combination was the linchpin of the outer layer. It's ability as a dogfighter, despite being underpowered, was a plus.

So true. Start hammering them 200+miles out. Naval warfare is so different than land warfare. You dont care if you kill them as long as they go away. Mission #1--keep the SLOC(sea lanes of communication) open. Anything else is a bennie. The ship I was on (Perry class frigate) could barely look after herself, but was still part of any battle group----missile bait.

Plus the Navy wanted the BADDEST looking fighter around.

Dan in Jupiter
 
Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 3:38 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 15):
Here's a a bit of trivia for you. When then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheaney is his infinite wisdom cancelled the F-14D program it was on schedule and under budget.

With technology and mission need completely trumping it's viability.
 
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kc135topboom
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
The F-15 had a much better radar,

I'm not sure where you get your information but that has just never even been the case on up until the last flight of a USN F-14D.

No, the F-14 radar was optumized for over water intersepts. The F-15 radar works better over ground clutter, and it had a true "look down, shoot down" capability

Quoting MigFan (Reply 14):
Mig-25 pilots were briefed about the F-14 when it came out by the Soviet GRU. The GRU grossly exaggerated the account of the F-14's capability, stating it could go Mach 4 at 120,000' ceiling. Why they did this, I still do not know.

The Soviet GRU also claimed the A-10 was capable of delivering nukes.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 19):
When I was in the Navy it seemed like Sec of Defense Cheney had it in for Naval Aviation. Not only did he kill the F-14D program but also the A-12 and P-21. Maybe he caught his wife in bed with a Navy fighter pilot.

A-12 and P-21 were grossly over budget, and the Navy's capabilities would not be met without tons of more money. These programs were cancelled in 1992. The USN did not push for the F-14D program for another 2 years.
 
F14D4ever
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 28):
A-12 and P-21 ... were cancelled in 1992. The USN did not push for the F-14D program for another 2 years.

I'm not sure what you mean. In fact, flight of the first production F-14D was February 1990, so they were 'pushing' for the -D well before that.
Are you referring to requests for follow-on procurement?
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MigFan
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 8:27 pm

I'm sorry, what's a P-21? Googling that term only leads to confusion.

/M
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LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Fri May 12, 2006 11:00 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 27):
With technology and mission need completely trumping it's viability.

False. Grumman had several proposals regarding the F-14 that trumped the "Super Hornet".

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 28):
No, the F-14 radar was optumized for over water intersepts. The F-15 radar works better over ground clutter, and it had a true "look down, shoot down" capability

This was true with the AWG-9. However the APG-71 on the F-14D did quite well over land. In fact technology from the APG-70 from the F-15E Strike was incorporated into the APG-71.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 28):
A-12 and P-21 were grossly over budget, and the Navy's capabilities would not be met without tons of more money. These programs were cancelled in 1992. The USN did not push for the F-14D program for another 2 years.

Well if that's the litimus test then I guess the F-22, C-17 and B-2 should have been cancelled as well.
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Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 31):
False. Grumman had several proposals regarding the F-14 that trumped the "Super Hornet".

No stealth component. Deal over.
 
LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting MigFan (Reply 30):
I'm sorry, what's a P-21? Googling that term only leads to confusion.

I'm sorry, it was called the P-7. My mistake. Go to globalsecurity.org and type in P-7.

[Edited 2006-05-12 19:46:05]
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ghostbase
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 28):
The Soviet GRU also claimed the A-10 was capable of delivering nukes.

I know this is a bit OTT for this thread but I was lucky enough to get a tour of most of the buildings left at RAF Bentwaters long after the 81st TFW vacated the site. Some artwork found in one of the weapons assembly buildings showed an A-10 flying forward of an obviously mushroom shaped nuclear weapon detonation. Bentwaters also had a 'Hot Row' special weapons storage area which was maintained to the end and is an integral ingredient of the alleged Rendlesham Forest UFO incident. Neither are proof in any way but are of interest.

 ghost 
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LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 32):
No stealth component. Deal over.

Put the Kool-Aid down. There's nothing stealthy about the "Super Hornet". The Navy has only deluded itself into believing that. Nothing stealthy about weapons pylons on the wing. Or the JDAM, GBU or CBU hanging from those pylons. Nor is the center fuel tank which evey Hornet seems to need.

By the way I'm still waiting for your supporting evidence that the F-14 is " an overpriced piece of crap".

http://aviationzaps.com/images/VF-211k.jpg
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catball
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 9:14 am

I don't know much about the intricate details of fighter aircraft, (although I enjoyed reading everyone's post) but I do believe one thing.

The F-14 is one bad ass looking aircraft.

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Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 35):
Put the Kool-Aid down. There's nothing stealthy about the "Super Hornet". The Navy has only deluded itself into believing that. Nothing stealthy about weapons pylons on the wing. Or the JDAM, GBU or CBU hanging from those pylons. Nor is the center fuel tank which evey Hornet seems to need.

You put the kool-aid down. Why do you think the F-18 is going to turn toaster parts ahead of it's time?
 
LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 37):
You put the kool-aid down. Why do you think the F-18 is going to turn toaster parts ahead of it's time?

Still waiting for your "information" to back up your previous claim. If you don't have it please say so.

Here's what I know, every pilot in my squadron thought the Navy got the short end of the stick when the D program was killed and the "Super Hornet" was born. I'll take their opinion over yours any day.

[Edited 2006-05-13 03:21:15]
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Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 38):
Still waiting for your "information" to back up your previous claim. If you don't have it please say so.

It is not the air superiority fighter for the world, thus worthless regardless how much of a hard on you have for it. No Navy aircraft are - thus not worth the money spent. They are overweight expensive pieces of crap who by their entry into service (after the Navy's wasteful development process) were already behind the power curve. Maybe they'll catch up with the JSF which kicks both of these birds asses. Then again, it's a predominant Air Force aircraft, so you probably don't think it's worth it's grain in salt. Then again, if you think the F-14 and 18 are worth their weight, then you're view of the fighter role is off the mark. The proof is in the pudding my friend. Your bird is collecting dust, and the 18 is right behind it.
 
LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sat May 13, 2006 11:55 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 39):
It is not the air superiority fighter for the world, thus worthless regardless how much of a hard on you have for it. No Navy aircraft are - thus not worth the money spent. They are overweight expensive pieces of crap who by their entry into service (after the Navy's wasteful development process) were already behind the power curve. Maybe they'll catch up with the JSF which kicks both of these birds asses. Then again, it's a predominant Air Force aircraft, so you probably don't think it's worth it's grain in salt. Then again, if you think the F-14 and 18 are worth their weight, then you're view of the fighter role is off the mark. The proof is in the pudding my friend. Your bird is collecting dust, and the 18 is right behind it.

There you go again saying things without any supporting evidence but your opinion. How many Navy fighter squadrons have you been in? It's obvious to me that your knowledge base on the subject is quite limited. So please don't be so arrogant as to think you are an expert on the subject.

"Then again, if you think the F-14 and 18 are worth their weight, then you're view of the fighter role is off the mark"

What kind non-sensical remark is that? More proof that when it comes to naval avaition you really don't know what you are talking about.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
MigFan
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sun May 14, 2006 12:28 am

The F-14/F-15s were good for their respective roles. If I were shopping for an air force I would choose the F-15E. It is a great mult-mission aircraft, albeit expensive. The tomcat could have been that aircraft, but the designers and the acquisitions people had different ideas.

However, I would pitt the F-14A against any modern figter with the odds of winning. Exception to the F-22.

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sun May 14, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
How many Navy fighter squadrons have you been in?

Obviously I was smart enough to join the Air Force and didn't have to concern myself with being in a Belly Button Fighter Squadron.
 
LMP737
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sun May 14, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 42):
Obviously I was smart enough to join the Air Force and didn't have to concern myself with being in a Belly Button Fighter Squadron.

So basically what you know about Naval Avaition you can fit on the head of a pin. Do you realize how foolish you look lecturing me about Naval Avaition or Air Ryan about Marine aviation. It would be like me lecturing KC135Topboom about air-to-air refueling.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 39):
They are overweight expensive pieces of crap who by their entry into service (after the Navy's wasteful development process) were already behind the power curve.

Since the F-4 Phantom started off as a Navy aircraft by your logic it was a "overwieght piece of crap" in USAF service. And your comment about the Navy's "wasteful development process" once again shows you really don't know what you are talking about.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
dl757md
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sun May 14, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 28):
The Soviet GRU also claimed the A-10 was capable of delivering nukes

Sure it is. 4000 30MM depleted uranium projectiles a minute.  Big grin
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
MigFan
Posts: 710
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Sun May 14, 2006 9:58 am

I am sure the A-10 could deliver a nuke, but the mission would not turn out well for the pilot!

/M
UH-60's suck!!!
 
Boeing7E7
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Why The USAF Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Tue May 16, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 43):
Since the F-4 Phantom started off as a Navy aircraft by your logic it was a "overwieght piece of crap" in USAF service. And your comment about the Navy's "wasteful development process" once again shows you really don't know what you are talking about.

The Lawn dart? The F-4 was a cheap stop-gap Air Force alternative to the in development F-15.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 43):
So basically what you know about Naval Avaition you can fit on the head of a pin. Do you realize how foolish you look lecturing me about Naval Avaition or Air Ryan about Marine aviation. It would be like me lecturing KC135Topboom about air-to-air refueling.

So basically you don't beleive in the train, deploy and fight together philosophy. Typical Navy tunnel vision.
 
LMP737
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RE: Why The Usaf Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Tue May 16, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 46):
The Lawn dart? The F-4 was a cheap stop-gap Air Force alternative to the in development F-15.

Really? The USAF ordered the F-4 in 1962 and started taking deliviery in 1963. The F-X program which eventually became the F-15 was launched in 1965.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 46):
So basically you don't beleive in the train, deploy and fight together philosophy. Typical Navy tunnel vision.

What on earth are you ranting about this time? What does that have to do with anything I said? I'll tell you what, nothing. News flash, every service is going to have it's own needs and requirements that are unique. You talk about train, deploy and fight together. That's all well and good but when was the last time a USAF fighter squadron deployed on a USN aircraft carrier.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
747400sp
Topic Author
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RE: Why The Usaf Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Tue May 16, 2006 5:16 am

Boeing7E7

Please do not comments against the Navy. Also the F-14D in my opinion the best fighter the Navy ever had. There's also prof that two Navy F-14B made two Air Force F-15 run with there tails between there legs. Also when the Air Force deploy to the Gulf on a Hot steal ship with nothing but water around it, and no ware to go, then you can comments against Naval squadron. And mean this in a respectful way.  Smile
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Why The Usaf Never Bought F-14 Tomcat?

Tue May 16, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 47):
Really? The USAF ordered the F-4 in 1962 and started taking deliviery in 1963. The F-X program which eventually became the F-15 was launched in 1965.

Hence the stop gap.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 47):
That's all well and good but when was the last time a USAF fighter squadron deployed on a USN aircraft carrier.

Never given the wall the DoN manages to put up around itself from the other forces.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 48):
Please do not comments against the Navy. Also the F-14D in my opinion the best fighter the Navy ever had. There's also prof that two Navy F-14B made two Air Force F-15 run with there tails between there legs. Also when the Air Force deploy to the Gulf on a Hot steal ship with nothing but water around it, and no ware to go, then you can comments against Naval squadron. And mean this in a respectful way.

Whatever Scotty.

[Edited 2006-05-15 22:47:52]

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